Best Fighter in GOT Tournament | Round 2 | #3) Jaime Lannister vs #6) The Hound

cmw43 said:
Hound may be good but he's only been crushing cans, who are his notable wins?

Jamie has:

Daryn Hornwood -sole heir of House Hornwood
Eddard Karstary
Torrhen Karstark
Jory Cassell - the Starks Captain of Guard

*Also held his own against the Smiling Knight (basically the original Mountain) at age 15 until Dayne stepped in to finish the job

Hound has:
Rioting peasants
The Butchers boy
The Mountain's lackies
Some cannon fodder at the Blackwater
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He has crushed a lot of cans, but the Hound actually threw Jaime himself off his horse so hard that they needed a blacksmith to get his helmet off. That's a notable win and probably the most germaine fight in this discussion. In that same tourney, he also fought purely defensively against the Mountain without really breaking a sweat.
 
taknocks said:
I don't think Jaime's prime was when he was shackled, malnourished, and over a year out of practice. And he still fought Brienne to a draw. Jaime was a prodigy, possibly the finest young swordsman Westeros had ever seen. The Hound is great, but the edge goes to Jaime.

And Robb didn't do shit. Jaime went HAM straight at Robb and killed three men before being overtaken.
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A lot of prodigies don't pan out. Jamie really didn't have a comeback when his bastard incest baby boy pointed out that his entry in the Kingsguard book was rather lacking.

Jamie is BJ Penn and The Hound is GSP.
 
Jaime being seriously overvalued while the hound is being undervalued. I think it was very telling when he read his entry in the book which had all of the accomplishments of those who had served in the king's guard. What was it, like 1 paragraph? And whoever is bringing up the fact that he killed a bunch of stark bannermen...they weren't exactly the cream of the crop. The karstark boys were fodder basically used to set up the rift between their dad and robb.

The hound would take jamie to task via doing whatever it takes to win while jamie is more accustomed to fighting vs chivalrous opponents.
 
I'm not sure who I would favor, but there's a whole lot of idiocy in this thread.

Jaime has never been considered the GOAT merely one of the best if not the best of his generation. Barristan considers him to be the best natural swordsman he's come across. As a squire Jaime held his own against the Smiling knight, the Mountain of his generation. Jaime killed 2 of Karstarks' heirs and Hornwood's heir trying to get to Robb. I don't see how getting captured by Robb is embarrassing, but getting captured by the Brotherhood without Banners isn't. He also won a melee as a teenager. His fight against Brienne can't be used against him because he was chained to the floor for half a year, his hands were chained, he couldn't train, and probably given shit food. Also Jaime loves to fight he lives for it, while fighting Brienne in the books he is drunk with adrenaline.

The Hound is one of the baddest SOBs in the book and show. He held his own briefly against his brother during the Hand's tournament. He killed Berric and several men in a tavern by himself. He is Joff's swornshield likely because of how deadly he is. In the books Jaime asks the mountains men why they didn't pursue him after he killed at the tavern they respond "We're bad, but you have to be mad to face the Hound." Jaime isn't anywhere near as strong as the Hound, he thinks of all the people stronger than himself and says the Clegane bros are stronger than him "for a certainty." Some dude as big as the Hound wants to fight him after the Hound goes rabid, Jaime thinks that the Hound would destroy him because he's a lot faster and "fights with a savagery [Crakehall] couldn't hope to match."
 
Matt4786 said:
He has crushed a lot of cans, but the Hound actually threw Jaime himself off his horse so hard that they needed a blacksmith to get his helmet off. That's a notable win and probably the most germaine fight in this discussion. In that same tourney, he also fought purely defensively against the Mountain without really breaking a sweat.
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He beat him in a joust, which isn't relevant in a fight. That would be like favoring Loras over the Mountain. The most relevant thing about the joust is that the Hound beat Jaime through superior technique and timing.
 
The Becoming said:
He beat him in a joust, which isn't relevant in a fight. That would be like favoring Loras over the Mountain. The most relevant thing about the joust is that the Hound beat Jaime through superior technique and timing.
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It's perfectly relevant to a fight. And if anything, the Hound beat Jaime at his own game i.e. tourney fighting. And with War lances and on the battlefield, I might just favor Loras. Bear in mind that Loras was completely blindsided and didn't have a sword. Loras is quite a good swordsman and rider, even Jaime wonders who's better between the two of them at one point.
 
Matt4786 said:
It's perfectly relevant to a fight. And if anything, the Hound beat Jaime at his own game i.e. tourney fighting. And with War lances and on the battlefield, I might just favor Loras. Bear in mind that Loras was completely blindsided and didn't have a sword. Loras is quite a good swordsman and rider, even Jaime wonders who's better between the two of them at one point.
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The jousts have to do with horsemanship more than anything else. In combat, it translates into the grace, power and accuracy of a charge with a lance, not a one-on-one duel involving swords. Lyanna Stark beat people in a joust, which is the perfect evidence of how little it reflects a duel.

If we're considering jousting ability, then Drogo should've beat Syrio unanimously.
 
Leagon said:
The jousts have to do with horsemanship more than anything else. In combat, it translates into the grace, power and accuracy of a charge with a lance, not a one-on-one duel involving swords. Lyanna Stark beat people in a joust, which is the perfect evidence of how little it reflects a duel.

If we're considering jousting ability, then Drogo should've beat Syrio unanimously.
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Well if this fight is strictly on the ground, then it doesn't strictly matter. But remember from Dunk and Egg that sometimes convention dictates that these things start from horseback. Nonetheless, I think the inference from that event is that the Hound is close to Jaime's level of technique.
 
Matt4786 said:
Well if this fight is strictly on the ground, then it doesn't strictly matter. But remember from Dunk and Egg that sometimes convention dictates that these things start from horseback. Nonetheless, I think the inference from that event is that the Hound is close to Jaime's level of technique.
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Absolutely. I posted in a previous thread that I think The Hound is, in actuality, the best fighter in Westeros. Gregor is the biggest/strongest, Selmy is the most experienced, and Jaime is the most skilled/quick, but The Hound may very well be a close second in all three.

The thing is, though, that Jaime beats the Hound in technique, speed and training partners whereas The Hound only outright beats Jaime in size/strength.

Because of that, I think Jaime wins 55/100. I could just as easily see it going the other way for Sandor, though.
 
Leagon said:
Absolutely. I posted in a previous thread that I think The Hound is, in actuality, the best fighter in Westeros. Gregor is the biggest/strongest, Selmy is the most experienced, and Jaime is the most skilled/quick, but The Hound may very well be a close second in all three.

The thing is, though, that Jaime beats the Hound in technique, speed and training partners whereas The Hound only outright beats Jaime in size/strength.

Because of that, I think Jaime wins 55/100.
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That's a fair assessment. I think the Hound also beats him in durability (which may be part of size/strength). The way the joust goes down is that Jaime breaks his first lance on him using some tricky shit. The hound keeps his horse and goes for a dual exchange in the second go-around and keeps his horse once again while Jaime goes crashing down. The Hound then goes toe to toe with his brother like 20 minutes thereafter.

The thing is...I think the Hound can tank a hit or two, while Jaime needs to be perfect. This might be the closest matchup on paper of any of them.
 
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If were're talking righthand Jaime, I'll give Jaime a slight advantage.

If not, Sandor by murder. Literally.
 
Toss up but I went Sandor. Jaime could certainly win.

Jaimes probably a bit faster and more skilled, Hound is stronger.

It really is a pick em. I went Sandor for one reason. He's gritty as hell.

He's shown a propensity to get his ass kicked even drunk, but find ways to win.

I can't think where Jaimes done the same. It may well be Jaime is to fast and skilled, I'm not convinced.

A 50/50 fight this one.

Also I can't remember if its in the show but in the books they joust. Jaime gets the better of the first tilt. Hound reels in the saddle holding on desperately. Jaime waves to the crowd and they go again. The Hound adjusts and Jaime is rolling in the dirt. Lances not swords but something to consider comparing the two.

Is James swordsmanship any superior than his jousting vis a vis Sandor?
 
I think this is the toughest match up to call by far as of yet.

I'm picking the Hound on size and strength, as well as gritty experience but would not be at all surprised either way.
 
This is looking to be a Dayne vs. Selmy final, with Dawn giving Dayne the edge needed to win. I guess it makes sense considering the author himself said they were the two best.
 
Hound kicks his ass then the asses of at least 77 Sherdog posters.
 
Matt4786 said:
This is looking to be a Dayne vs. Selmy final, with Dawn giving Dayne the edge needed to win. I guess it makes sense considering the author himself said they were the two best.
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I feel Dayne is kind of overrated, if he's so great why is he dead?

Selmy and Jamie seem to be blinded by some kind of Bruce Lee style hero worship but there's hardly anything about his exploits just people saying he was the best eva with a sword.

He got beat twice by Rheagar in tournies too but everyone talks like he's invincible.

Notable wins:
The Smiling Knight & The Kingswood Brotherhood

Barristan Selmy has a way longer list of impressive victories

Notable Wins:
Maelys the Monstrous
Cut a swathe through the Golden Company
Ser Symon Hollard
Ser Simon Toyne (leader of the Kingswood Brotherhood)
Defeated Rheagar in a Tourney/Was also unhorsed by him in another
Unhorsed the Hound in a tourney at Age 57
A bunch of Gold Cloaks sent to arrest him
The Titan's Bastard using just a stick
Khrazz the Pit Fighter
 
cmw43 said:
I feel Dayne is kind of overrated, if he's so great why is he dead?

Selmy and Jamie seem to be blinded by some kind of Bruce Lee style hero worship but there's hardly anything about his exploits just people saying he was the best eva with a sword.

He got beat twice by Rheagar in tournies too but everyone talks like he's invincible.

Notable wins:
The Smiling Knight & The Kingswood Brotherhood

Barristan Selmy has a way longer list of impressive victories

Notable Wins:
Maelys the Monstrous
Cut a swathe through the Golden Company
Ser Symon Hollard
Ser Simon Toyne (leader of the Kingswood Brotherhood)
Defeated Rheagar in a Tourney/Was also unhorsed by him in another
Unhorsed the Hound in a tourney at Age 57
A bunch of Gold Cloaks sent to arrest him
The Titan's Bastard using just a stick
Khrazz the Pit Fighter
Click to expand...

I completely agree. I'm just pretty sure that GRRM said him and Selmy are tied for the best, and I can't really argue with the guy who is god of this universe. If he says that's how it is, then that's how it is.
 
cmw43 said:
I feel Dayne is kind of overrated, if he's so great why is he dead?

Selmy and Jamie seem to be blinded by some kind of Bruce Lee style hero worship but there's hardly anything about his exploits just people saying he was the best eva with a sword.

He got beat twice by Rheagar in tournies too but everyone talks like he's invincible.

Notable wins:
The Smiling Knight & The Kingswood Brotherhood

Barristan Selmy has a way longer list of impressive victories

Notable Wins:
Maelys the Monstrous
Cut a swathe through the Golden Company
Ser Symon Hollard
Ser Simon Toyne (leader of the Kingswood Brotherhood)
Defeated Rheagar in a Tourney/Was also unhorsed by him in another
Unhorsed the Hound in a tourney at Age 57
A bunch of Gold Cloaks sent to arrest him
The Titan's Bastard using just a stick
Khrazz the Pit Fighter
Click to expand...

That we know of. Would be interesting to read his page in the whitebook.

That would be a great book for grrm if he ever finishes the series.

I'd love to read a whitebook.

Sandor Clegane second son of x. Sworn sword of Joffrey Baratheon. Rode down a butchers boy. Won a tourney by forfeit. Named to the kingsguard in his x year. Killed peasants and told king to go fuck himself.

Anyway GRRM said skills wise its Dayne and Selmy prime with Dawn giving Dayne the edge. So I'll go with that.
 
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