Best 170 pounder ever?

[Bouboumaster]

Georges "Rush" St-Pierre is not only the Welterweight GOAT; he's also the entire goddamn sport's GOAT.

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/all-time-goat-poll.3916359/page-165#post-162393714

 

[bigconan]

TS asked who's the best, not who's the greatest.

Best= Most skilled.
GOAT= More accomplished.

I think Usman is the best WW ever. I think he would wreck a prime GSP and everyone GSP ever fought. Thus, he's the best ever.

I think their wrestling would be cancelled out...as is often the case with 2 good grapplers...and gsp has far better standup...I'd pick gsp anyday.

 

[GrantB13]

Did you honestly forget that GSP exists?

 

[TheAmericanGazelle]

GSP is the best WW in terms of resume/accomplishment or pure skill.

A 2009 GSP teleported straight into 2020 would be winning the belt.

 

[bigconan]

Usman is first. Based on pure skills it's Johnny Hendricks

post usada proves what we all know about hendrix to be true.

 

[ThunderStruck]

Yes, dropped repeatedly by Serra, lol.

Condit also dropped him.

So 4 knock downs for the guy who beat the most top 5 fighters in the history of the sport. Not bad.

 

[po_thead]

Zero effort

 

[C0NCH3TO]

Lmao. Colby is a very good fighter but he’s beaten a lightweight and some 40 year old welters. And Colby is the highlight of Usman’s career. Let that sink in.

Gsp fought true welters like Hughes, Hendricks, Serra, Kos, Fitch, Condit, Nick, Alves, Trigg and Karo when they were game.

 

[is a]

The most obvious answer is GSP but Usman may be catching up.
GSP's striking is still better than Usman's though, especially his boxing.

 

[Claude]

You have zero proof for Colby being able to beat anyone on St-Pierre's resume.

You have zero proof that GSP could beat Usman, lol. This is all opinion in case you haven't noticed.

Oh, he doesn't need more lower quality wins to prove he's better?
Do you rank Khabib above Fedor then?
Just curious about your consistency of applying standards.
(And i guess Conor McGregor is also better than Fedor then, as he beat Aldo, who's obviously far better than anyone Fedor has ever faced, lol.)

Nogueira x2 > anyone on Khabib's record and Aldo at the time he fought Conor. Plus Conor has lost several times during his prime.

But back to Colby; the fight was probably 2-2 going into the 4th round, Usman won, yes, but it wasn't a one sided beatdown.

Doesn't matter, he won.

St-Pierre has these statistics after having fought many top fighters, Usman has significantly worse stats, despite having fought three top fighters (if we include Masvidal) at best and Woodley ages worse and worse as a win and he was beaten by Shields (who St-Pierre beat too).

Irrelevant. He never fough anyone as big and skilled as Usman.

Numbers did also not save Usman from getting submitted by Jose Caceres of all people either

That was very early in his career.

At least you seem to be learning.

As for the "smaller" opponents: last time i've checked, Usman's single greatest win (Covington) cuts almost no weight and still made it competitive against Kamaru for the majority of the fight, so the size difference wasn't smaller than GSP vs Hughes, etc. for example, let alone GSP vs Shields or Bisping.

Shields and Bisping weren't wrestlers. Hughes was smaller in frame than both Usman and Colby. He had less leverage.

Aside from that, the guys GSP beat in the UFC have literally the highest win-percentage out of all GOAT candidates, but i'm sure you'll find a pseudo argument to dismiss that, lol.

It's not a GOAT argument.

St-Pierre has proven to be superior against literally anybody he has stepped in the cage against, the only guy he didn't dominate sooner or later was Hendricks, who at the absolute peak of his career still couldn't do more against a slower St-Pierre who's had a torn ACL too previously, lol.

Yes, yes, and he still tapped to strikes vs. a midget.

Well, playing to your opponents strengths is a dumb thing to do and the best fighters of all time usually refuse to do that, for the majority of their career.
The control time percentage was supposed to show you, that Usman, who you - for whatever reason - consider superior to GSP, plays it safe more often and spends less time standing.

That's not what control % shows. You can keep it safe in the stand-up.

The stats i showed you weren't outdated at all by the way, those were just the stats for welterweights.

They were irrelevant anyway.

P.S. Please, try to keep the posts shorter.

Cheers.

 

[Claude]

Nah he’d prob beat slow Usman. And prime GSP would run a clinic on Colby. Colby is tailor made for GSP. In fairness, Usman is the tougher fight for GSP

Doubt GSP could take Usman down. If GSP can't play it safe, he's is trouble. Especially vs. Usman, who's is bigger, has better TDD, has more power and is less prone to getting dropped than GSP.

Honestly, it's a terrible fight for GSP.

 

[StoneColdSteveAustin]

Doubt GSP could take Usman down. If GSP can't play it safe, he's is trouble. Especially vs. Usman, who's is bigger, has better TDD, has more power and is less prone to getting dropped than GSP.

Honestly, it's a terrible fight for GSP.

He’s slow and would be beaten everywhere by prime GSP with the Riddum

 

[Iron Nick]

You have zero proof that GSP could beat Usman, lol. This is all opinion in case you haven't noticed.

Okay, somewhat fair.

St-Pierre is most likely clearly superior to Usman though.

Nogueira x2 > anyone on Khabib's record and Aldo at the time he fought Conor. Plus Conor has lost several times during his prime.

Nope, not really.

Even in the best heavyweight era, heavyweights weren't as skilled as the fighters of later ages in divisionslike 145, 155 and 170, don't let nostalgia and bias blind you.

Doesn't matter, he won.

I was just using the same argument you brought up for St-Pierre having wins against smaller opponents.

Irrelevant. He never fough anyone as big and skilled as Usman.

Pretty sure Shields is a fairly big guy and he has better wins than Usman too and that's not taking into account how rudimentary and flawed Usman's striking is.

That was very early in his career.

Just like St-Pierre's loss to Matt Serra, yes.

Shields and Bisping weren't wrestlers. Hughes was smaller in frame than both Usman and Colby. He had less leverage.

Ehh, Usman being bigger than Hughes is true, but the difference is far smaller, if it's there at all, in comparison to Colby.
Hughes has the same reach as Colby, is a bit shorter, but then again, he's significantly sturdier built and his amount of muscle wasn't slowing him down either.

It's not a GOAT argument.

Correct, but St-Pierre's win-percentage proves that he fought and beat top notch fighters.

Yes, yes, and he still tapped to strikes vs. a midget.

Even the best lose sometimes - especially in divisions with a talentpool that big, this happens from time to time.

That's not what control % shows. You can keep it safe in the stand-up.

Nothing is safer though than blanketing people, which Usman is even more extreme at than Fitch, who many people on here give him (Fitch) shit for.

They were irrelevant anyway.

Nah, they've shown that St-Pierre is superior to Usman in pretty much every metric, by quite big margins, despite having fought (far) more top competition than Usman.

P.S. Please, try to keep the posts shorter.

I don't keep them intentionally long, they just happen to be that way.

Cheers.

Cheers once again!

 

[Strijfy]

Heavyweight and 135 could be debated but 205, 185, 155, 145, and 125 are pretty clear cut. So who is the consensus 170 pounder?

Heavyweights is debatable but many think Fedor?
205 John Jones
185 Anderson Silva
170 ???
155 Khabib
145 Aldo
135 Cruz?
125 MM

are you shitting me ?

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

TS asked who's the best, not who's the greatest.

Best= Most skilled.
GOAT= More accomplished.

I think Usman is the best WW ever. I think he would wreck a prime GSP and everyone GSP ever fought. Thus, he's the best ever.

The thing about actual accomplishments is that its proof of someones skills in actual fights. I might think my cousin Vinny is the most skilled 170 pound MMA fighter ever, but without the actual victories my opinion isn't likely to convince anyone.

When two guys directly compete against each other deciding who is better is objective: its the one who wins. Serra was better than GSP in their first fight, GSP was better than him in their second fight. Comparing two guys who never competed against each other is largely subjective, and the answer is always: the guy I liked more is or was better. That's why things like actual in cage record are useful.

 

[Claude]

Yes GSP was a safe fighter because wins = money. It's not on GSP to help his opponents out. If the fighters didn't like it they should have done something about it. Oh wait.

I doubt that was the main reason he was safe. Plenty of fighters love money and they don't play it safe.

I think GSP was simply terrified of losing again after Serra.

 

[WorldWarIV]

What a stupid thread.

 

[chinarice]

And add certain weaknesses.

and remove certain strengths

 

[chinarice]

Or tap to strikes.

Or tap out Usman with a RNC.

 

[knock_you_out]

Not sure, Conor?