Best 170 pounder ever?

Ahmed Masood said:
Only lost twice and avenged both of them. 9 fight title defense streak. Two time WW and 1 time MW champ. Arguably the most well rounded fighter in history. Right now, the GOAT IMO.
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TS you should be ashamed of yourself.
 
Claude said:
Why are you comparing resumes? Thread is asking who's the best WW ever, not the GOAT. You don't need more top wins or title defenses to be the best ever. You only need to be the best... ever.
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Because strength of opposition matters, and Usman, with the exception of Woodley and Covington, has not faced elite opposition.
These guys and Masvidal are his best wins by far, whereas St-Pierre has numerous great wins.

That aside, St-Pierre trumps Usman in pretty much every, if not every statistic when it comes to MMA and in most cases, it's not even close, as i've shown you.
Claude said:
Who cares about takedowns? If anything, shooting desperately for takedowns shows you're not that confident in your stand-up or that you want to play it safe, which GSP often did.

It would have been far more impressive if GSP waited more than 13 seconds to shoot for a takedown vs. Hendricks, or if he waited more than 3 seconds to shoot for a takedown vs. Fitch. But nope, he played it safe, because GSP was a safe fighter.

Cheers.
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Fighting is first and foremost, about winning and both Usman and St-Pierre are extremely good at that.

St-Pierre is however not as much of a "safe fighter" as Usman is:
controltimepercentage_GSP_USMAN.png

Cheers!
9CSWeNf.gif
 
StoneColdSteveAustin said:
Much slower, worse stand up and worse grappling. Prime GSP outclasses him everywhere. Easy fight for GSP
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Worse stand- up yet he hasn't been dropped repeatedly like GSP was.

Worse grappling but he hasn't been taken down like GSP was.

Great logic there.

Usman would wreck GSP.
 
Claude said:
Worse stand- up yet he hasn't been dropped repeatedly like GSP was.

Worse grappling but he hasn't been taken down like GSP was.

Great logic there.

Usman would wreck GSP.
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GSP was dropped repeatedly? ROFL.
 
Claude said:
Worse stand- up yet he hasn't been dropped repeatedly like GSP was.

Worse grappling but he hasn't been taken down like GSP was.

Great logic there.

Usman would wreck GSP.
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He’s worse everywhere and much much slower too. Usman is Just another win for GSP
 
Ironnik94 said:
Because strength of opposition matters, and Usman, with the exception of Woodley and Covington, has not faced elite opposition.
These guys and Masvidal are his best wins by far, whereas St-Pierre has numerous great wins.

That aside, St-Pierre trumps Usman in pretty much every, if not every statistic when it comes to MMA and in most cases, it's not even close, as i've shown you.

Fighting is first and foremost, about winning and both Usman and St-Pierre are extremely good at that.

St-Pierre is however not as much of a "safe fighter" as Usman is:
View attachment 811864

Cheers!
9CSWeNf.gif
Click to expand...

If Colby can beat anyone on GSP's resume, then by default Usman already has better quality. He doesn't need more lower quality wins to prove he's better.

Statistics against whom? Usman? Colby? Nope. Against smaller and less skilled opponents. So it's irrelevant. GSP's numbers didn't save him from getting wrecked by Serra of all people.

Safe means staying away from your opponents' strengths and focusing on his weaknesses. GSP often took strikers to the ground early in the fight and kept the fight standing vs. grapplers. I'm not sure what top control % has anything to do with this. Plus those stats seem outdated:

20201102_173113.jpg

If anything stats show Usman is the fighter who has spent the least time on his back:

20201102_173736.jpg

Cheers.
 
Last edited:
hmmm excellent question OP. I think GSP might have a case, but I'd like to see him get a few more title defenses, then I'll consider it
 
BRASIL WAND said:
Agreed. Needs to have title fights against Matt Serra, Dan Hardy, Jon Fish, and BJ Penn to cement his legacy.
<mma4>
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He’s got those in his division
Chiesa= serra
Edwards= hardy
Colby = kos
Just there’s no Fitch or bj penn equivalent atm
Ponzi would be his condit
 
Claude said:
If Colby can beat anyone on GSP's resume, then by default Usman already has better quality. He doesn't need more lower quality wins to prove he's better.
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You have zero proof for Colby being able to beat anyone on St-Pierre's resume.
Oh, he doesn't need more lower quality wins to prove he's better?

Do you rank Khabib above Fedor then?
Just curious about your consistency of applying standards.
(And i guess Conor McGregor is also better than Fedor then, as he beat Aldo, who's obviously far better than anyone Fedor has ever faced, lol.)

But back to Colby; the fight was probably 2-2 going into the 4th round, Usman won, yes, but it wasn't a one sided beatdown.
Claude said:
Statistics against whom? Usman? Colby? Nope. Against smaller and less skilled opponents. So it's irrelevant. GSP's numbers didn't save him from getting wrecked by Serra of all people. See, stats don't fight with you. This isn't a GOAT debate.
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St-Pierre has these statistics after having fought many top fighters, Usman has significantly worse stats, despite having fought three top fighters (if we include Masvidal) at best and Woodley ages worse and worse as a win and he was beaten by Shields (who St-Pierre beat too).

Numbers did also not save Usman from getting submitted by Jose Caceres of all people either ;)

As for the "smaller" opponents: last time i've checked, Usman's single greatest win (Covington) cuts almost no weight and still made it competitive against Kamaru for the majority of the fight, so the size difference wasn't smaller than GSP vs Hughes, etc. for example, let alone GSP vs Shields or Bisping.

Aside from that, the guys GSP beat in the UFC have literally the highest win-percentage out of all GOAT candidates, but i'm sure you'll find a pseudo argument to dismiss that, lol.

St-Pierre has proven to be superior against literally anybody he has stepped in the cage against, the only guy he didn't dominate sooner or later was Hendricks, who at the absolute peak of his career still couldn't do more against a slower St-Pierre who's had a torn ACL too previously, lol.
Claude said:
Safe means staying away from your opponents' strengths and focusing on his weaknesses. GSP often took strikers to the ground early in the fight and kept the fight standing vs. grapplers. I'm not sure what top control % has anything to do with this. Plus those stats seem outdated:

20201102_173113-jpg.811867


Cheers.
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Well, playing to your opponents strengths is a dumb thing to do and the best fighters of all time usually refuse to do that, for the majority of their career.
The control time percentage was supposed to show you, that Usman, who you - for whatever reason - consider superior to GSP, plays it safe more often and spends less time standing.

The stats i showed you weren't outdated at all by the way, those were just the stats for welterweights.
<BC1>
 
Claude said:
Worse stand- up yet he hasn't been dropped repeatedly like GSP was.

Worse grappling but he hasn't been taken down like GSP was.

Great logic there.

Usman would wreck GSP.
Click to expand...

and Usman likes the scoooo-ba
 
Claude said:
Why are you comparing resumes? Thread is asking who's the best WW ever, not the GOAT. You don't need more top wins or title defenses to be the best ever. You only need to be the best... ever.

I think Colby would destroy anyone on that list. Let alone Usman.

Who cares about takedowns? If anything, shooting desperately for takedowns shows you're not that confident in your stand-up or that you want to play it safe, which GSP often did.

It would have been far more impressive if GSP waited more than 13 seconds to shoot for a takedown vs. Hendricks, or if he waited more than 3 seconds to shoot for a takedown vs. Fitch. But nope, he played it safe, because GSP was a safe fighter.

Cheers.
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Yes GSP was a safe fighter because wins = money. It's not on GSP to help his opponents out. If the fighters didn't like it they should have done something about it. Oh wait.
 
Usman is first. Based on pure skills it's Johnny Hendricks
 
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