Bautista fight sets a bad precedent

[Subline]

UFC should matchmake as if Aldo won this fight, only way to make this right.

 

[deman]

A lot of the reason can be blamed on the UFC and dana's bitch ass shitty pay. Honestly fighters should get full pay, regardless if they win or lose, instead of this 12k/12k bullshit. Thats why fighters point fight, so they can actually get paid, which they still vastly underpaid to begin with. Wouldn't you point fight too if the other option was going back to your 2nd job as a barista at starcucks if you didn't get the full pay check bc you lost your fight?

Yeah true.

Who's gunna go in there and lay it all on the line time & time again for chicken feed.

This is the problem with fighting. The absurdly low entry level pay prevents anybody with really sporting talent from doing it. Because no matter how much they ended up making, at one point Mayweather, McGrgeor, Fury, Jones, etc were all fighting for basically no money. Like, Jones is considered the best fighter ever. But if he had been slightly better at football -like his brothers - then we'd never have heard of him. There must be loads of other guys like this out there. Theirry Henry could probably have kciked Sean Stricklands arse if he trained from an early age but he was too bust getting paid crazy money in soccer.

 

[Contempt]

Sure he had a good first round. After that, Aldo reminded him of who he was in the cage with. After Bautista had a taste of those hands (and a knee), he switched to his plan B, and panic-wrestled/wall and stalled until fight end. This isn’t just dishonourable behaviour from an elite level fighter, it’s ridiculous to reward such a performance with a 10-9, let alone enough 10-9’s to win the decision. Failed takedowns and stall tactics shouldn’t be enough to win a fight, and I feel the stalling was only allowed due to the ridiculous separations that one ref did in the early prelims. Aldo deserves better, so does the sport at the highest level.

/rant

Precedent?

This shit has been a thing since Randy vs Vera, in like 2010.

 

[Ruthless Ryan]

Randy Couture was doing this long ago

I remember him being the Godfather of the wall n stall.

 

[PrideNverDies]

At a certain point you need to penalize fighters for failed takedowns

 

[The Siege]

I get your point, and without getting too deep into it (as in, is any means of making a living ethical?), I would argue that it's "dishonorable" because that isn't a viable tactic without the very specific construct in place that you can win a judges' decision. I do really see it like an exploit. Just my 2c

Contrast to point karate where you're actively discouraged from hurting your opponent, and winning on points is the goal.

Maybe these guys should be paid and treated like gladiators to make it a little more realistic

I see where you are coming from, but as long as he and Aldo agreed to the ruleset and were aware of the boundaries in place, it is as fair as fair can get.

Personally, the push against the wall meta is one of the worst fighting strategies to watch. Its mind numbing, but who am I to tell a fighter what to do when it's their health and livelihood on the line.

 

[Luthien]

Dana please cut him

 

[RonDante]

The worst part of this is the fans who wanted Aldo to win, but genuinely believe that what Bautista did should have earned him the decision.

Bautista did not win according to the judging criteria

 

[checktheknuckles]

Yeah true.

Who's gunna go in there and lay it all on the line time & time again for chicken feed.

This is the problem with fighting. The absurdly low entry level pay prevents anybody with really sporting talent from doing it. Because no matter how much they ended up making, at one point Mayweather, McGrgeor, Fury, Jones, etc were all fighting for basically no money. Like, Jones is considered the best fighter ever. But if he had been slightly better at football -like his brothers - then we'd never have heard of him. There must be loads of other guys like this out there. Theirry Henry could probably have kciked Sean Stricklands arse if he trained from an early age but he was too bust getting paid crazy money in soccer.

Exactly. Look at who is considered the best. Like you said, Jon, whos brothers are in the NFL making way many more millions. If Jon could have went that route, he would have. Then Stipe, who is considered the UFC HW GOAT, and how he was just a washed out college baseball player. If Stipe could have went to the MLB and made many millions, he would have instead of being a fire fighter / retired ufc'er. Same with Ferguson who was considered one of the best at his peak, was just another washed up college baseballer. Same with Aldo and soccer. Too much money in other sports that keeps most of the talent away from mma.

 

[Only Here for Attachments]

Not using a viable and legal tactic to win a fight.

Stalling is illegal per the Unified Rules

 

[deman]

Exactly. Look at who is considered the best. Like you said, Jon, whos brothers are in the NFL making way many more millions. If Jon could have went that route, he would have. Then Stipe, who is considered the UFC HW GOAT, and how he was just a washed out college baseball player. If Stipe could have went to the MLB and made many millions, he would have instead of being a fire fighter / retired ufc'er. Same with Ferguson who was considered one of the best at his peak, was just another washed up college baseballer. Same with Aldo and soccer. Too much money in other sports that keeps most of the talent away from mma.

Yep yep yep.

I must admit, I used to scoff when people on here would talk about "A level athletes" and what they'd do in the UFC because I thought it was just delusional Americans thinking their sportsman could dominate every sport in the World because so many skills in the NFL, NBA, Baseball are transferable, so they misguidedly thought it would apply to fighting. But I do think they were actually right, mostly.

Aside from the boring fighting styles, and perhaps me just getting older, I think this realisation is also what has caused my fandom to wane. So often guys just flunk out of another sport, train for a year or so and start whipping people in the UFC. It really makes me wonder how much "skill" is involved. Not as much as I previously thought, unfortunately. I dont care if Brock Lesnar "wrestled in college", he shouldn't stand a chance with the top HW's in the UFC. Even the likes of Ngannou just leaving with the belt hurts the credibility of the product massively because I dont feel like I'm watching the best of the best anymore. Some title fights are sloppy messes.

There were obviously much more athletic & tougher guys in the NFL than Brendan Schaub but he made it quite a long way in MMA. He knocked out Cro Cop ffs!! Volkanovski didn't make it to pro in rugby. And on & on & on.

 

[RonDante]

It was the Merab fight all over again except Aldo won more clearly.

Come on, Aldo clearly lost the Merab fight. That fight wasn’t exciting but we all knew it was the right decision

 

[Big Tuppy Hole]

Randy Couture was doing this long ago

Randy fucked guys up in the clinch (besides Vera) and used it to land clubbing shots and improve his position.

 

[Senzo Tanaka]

The wall and stall didn't win him the fight. It counts as control which isn't scored unless striking/grappling are equal. Then aggression.

He just did more than Aldo. It was a classic modern Aldo fight where he gets old fans excited by doing pretty well but ultimately doesn't do enough. He always lets it go to the scorecards while skating by and acting like he won a world title.

 

[tasticles]

A lot of the reason can be blamed on the UFC and dana's bitch ass shitty pay. Honestly fighters should get full pay, regardless if they win or lose, instead of this 12k/12k bullshit. Thats why fighters point fight, so they can actually get paid, which they still vastly underpaid to begin with. Wouldn't you point fight too if the other option was going back to your 2nd job as a barista at starcucks if you didn't get the full pay check bc you lost your fight?

I've been on the same page but in a nut shell from history, Dana started cutting almost everyone after 3 loss in a row and sometimes 2 even if they were good fighters. He's always done bitch assness.

My theory is he didn't want a bunch of tank Abbots and kimbo bums over saturating it either. He just seems like a real ass hole. Needed to vent this. thanks in advance

 

[don't ask]

Randy Couture was doing this long ago

Carlson Gracie Jr. and John Lewis is the first time I remember being angry at wall and stall.

Anyone remember this travesty?

 

[don't ask]

I've been on the same page but in a nut shell from history, Dana started cutting almost everyone after 3 loss in a row and sometimes 2 even if they were good fighters. He's always done bitch assness.

My theory is he didn't want a bunch of tank Abbots and kimbo bums over saturating it either. He just seems like a real ass hole. Needed to vent this. thanks in advance

Yeah. After he bought up those other orgs, they had an overflowing roster and he went on a cutting spree, but only after they lost. This way, if another org picked them up, they'd be known for washing out of the UFC.

 

[IDGETKTFO]

FIGHTER	KD	SIG. STR.	SIG. STR. %	TOTAL STR.	TD	TD %	SUB. ATT	REV.	CTRL
Jose Aldo Mario Bautista	0 0	51 of 117 49 of 142	43% 34%	65 of 139 90 of 196	0 of 0 0 of 10	--- 0%	0 0	0 0	0:00 7:15

Hosay landed 65 and Bautista landed 90.

Sauce:
http://ufcstats.com/fight-details/3d7d82fff71e395a

 

[MigitAs]

FIGHTER	KD	SIG. STR.	SIG. STR. %	TOTAL STR.	TD	TD %	SUB. ATT	REV.	CTRL
Jose Aldo Mario Bautista	0 0	51 of 117 49 of 142	43% 34%	65 of 139 90 of 196	0 of 0 0 of 10	--- 0%	0 0	0 0	0:00 7:15

Hosay landed 65 and Bautista landed 90.

Sauce:
http://ufcstats.com/fight-details/3d7d82fff71e395a

Yeah but look at the sig strikes brah

 

[IDGETKTFO]

Yeah but look at the sig strikes brah

Those total strikes brah, and 7:15 Control brah. I mean, literally 2 more sig strikes is reaching, lol I don't even know why you Hosay Alpo fanboys are even argueing this.