Based on skills & attributes, is Leon the *best* WW of all time?

[ricksons armbar**]

when did GSP lose to Hendricks? Am I missing something here?
I understand people want to peddle their narratives but rewriting history?

The fact of the matter is it doesnt matter which WW you put out there, the answer will always be GSP by 50-45 and you know why? cuz thats what he does. neutralizes and beats the shit out of everyone he faces.

haters gonna keep on hating.

 

[blackheart]

TS didn't know what MMA even was when GSP was champion.

I've had accounts on this forum since 2008 and got into the sport from PRIDE vhs tapes. Keep coping instead of contributing to the thread clown.

 

[blackheart]

when did GSP lose to Hendricks? Am I missing something here?
I understand people want to peddle their narratives but rewriting history?

I bet you think Jones beat Reyes and Machida beat Shogun the first time



We all watched GSP's face get turned into hamburger meat, clearly lose a decision, and then leave the sport. I mean you can pretend otherwise, but we all saw it.

 

[blackheart]

Leon has no killer instinct and just coasts.

As opposed to 50-45 GSP, who had tons of killer instinct and finished fights all the time?

 

[RonDante]

First - put some respect on RDA's name. He's an incredible fighter and was elite at 155 and at 170, and had a complete game.

Second - literally, what the fuck are you talking about:
View attachment 1029249

We just inventing our own reality now? 22 of the 28 MMA media groups that scored the fight scored it for Colby. 6 of 28 scored it for RDA. All 3 judges had it for Colby.

All 3 judges had it wrong

 

[Hog-train]

As opposed to 50-45 GSP, who had tons of killer instinct and finished fights all the time?

Early in his career, GSP was a finishing machine. Later on at least GSP took down his opponents.

Leon Edwards has ALWAYS been a decision machine. Look at his record.

 

[blackheart]

Early in his career, GSP was a finishing machine. Later on at least GSP took down his opponents.

Leon Edwards has ALWAYS been a decision machine. Look at his record.

Yeah bro... look at their records


GSP and Leon have the same number of decisions. GSP has TWO more finishes.

Your bias is showing.

 

[chinarice]

Both are bigger and longer than GSP. Usman has slightly better striking technique than GSP and good enough wrestling to neutralize GSP's wrestling.

You just completely admitted to how bad and un-serious your analysis is dude. GSP, Usman and Colby are the three best MMA wrestlers in the history of the UFCs welterweight division (honorable mention to Jon Fitch). Leon neutralized the grappling of 2 out of the 3 best UFC WW MMA wrestlers but his wrestling is "shit"???? Come thee fuck on. Be serious. You're a Leon hater and incapable of objectively evaluating this.

Hendricks had an extremely basic game - basic wrestling and basic striking but backed up with explosiveness and tons of power. Johnny would have had NOTHING for Usman or Leon. He couldn't grapple fuck them, and with a much shorter reach and extremely basic striking technique, he would be loading up his right hand all night and missing every single time. Exactly HOW does Hendricks beat Usman or Leon? Like what is the method? He would have a punchers chance and that is literally it.

They would have a puncher's chance. That is literally it. lol your bias is showing

 

[blackheart]

All 3 judges had it wrong

All 3 judges had it wrong, along with 80% of MMA media, but you had it right. Ok dude. I watched that fight live. RDA lost a very clear UD.

 

[blackheart]

They would have a puncher's chance. That is literally it. lol your bias is showing

concession and non-argument noted.

 

[chinarice]

concession and non-argument noted.

Better luck next time bud. I win! Hooray for me!

 

[ChessJitsu]

Leon's pretty good.

As an athlete and in terms of being well-rounded, it's hard to imagine many fighters stacking up to him.

I'm going to give GSP an edge over him because of GSP's timing and cardio.

Maybe Leon's longer and more wirey but GSP's timing is on par with Machida's.

 

[VAfan]

what an absolutely ridiculous thread. what are you even talking about, 'not greatest, but best,' what the hell does that even mean. put the crack pipe down. gsp by about fifty miles.

 

[MRT]

Yeah, I'm not referencing the first Leon-Usman fight. That fight was 8 years ago. But we see that current day Leon can and did neutralize Colby and Usman's wrestling.

GSP is probably the best MMA wrestler of all time. Definitely the best at WW. And Usman and Colby are right behind him. GSPs grappling was not miles ahead of Usman and Colby - it was marginally better.

I don't think it's a given that Leon beats GSP, and anyone who disagrees with me is an idiot. I'm not saying that at all. GSP is a GOAT, a complete fighter, with explosiveness and crazy stamina. I just think it's a much more competitive fight than most are giving credit for. I think the grappling prowess that Leon has displayed in recent years, combined with his elite striking and size, would make Leon a very bad matchup for prime GSP. I'd probably have it 55%/45% Leon, so I wouldn't be surprised to see GSP pull it out at all.

That was my mistake...I meant their 2nd fight.

I'm not saying GSP was miles ahead of Usman and Colby's wrestling, *prime for prime* (I still think the combination of his striking and explosive TDs was unmatched though)...but are 35yr old Usman and 34yr old Colby on prime GSP's grappling level? I think the early broken foot may have robbed us of the ability to answer that better for Colby, but even then I'm not sure he hasn't lost a step.

Ultimately, I just don't think we have seen Leon tested by a comparable grappler to prime GSP, never mind one with GSP's overall skill set...and while Leon is a more complete fighter than most, I seriously doubt his ability to neutralize a prime GSP's grappling.

To the original question though...skill and attributes, I'd put GSP *clearly* above Leon, while Leon probably ranks no worse than top 5. The sport certainly evolves, and he is a very complete fighter.

 

[blackheart]

what an absolutely ridiculous thread. what are you even talking about, 'not greatest, but best,' what the hell does that even mean. put the crack pipe down. gsp by about fifty miles.

I love how you talk about the distinction between "greatest" vs "best", like its not a distinction that's been made in combat sports going back decades, and like I'm a crackhead for making that distinction. Are you new to combat sports? That's the first time you've EVER heard the distinction between greatest and best? You don't understand the distinction between greatness and best? Seriously?

 

[RonDante]

All 3 judges had it wrong, along with 80% of MMA media, but you had it right. Ok dude. I watched that fight live. RDA lost a very clear UD.

He outstruck colby clearly in at least 3 rounds. Clinch control doesn’t score

 

[blackheart]

That was my mistake...I meant their 2nd fight.

I'm not saying GSP was miles ahead of Usman and Colby's wrestling, *prime for prime* (I still think the combination of his striking and explosive TDs was unmatched though)...but are 35yr old Usman and 34yr old Colby on prime GSP's grappling level? I think the early broken foot may have robbed us of the ability to answer that better for Colby, but even then I'm not sure he hasn't lost a step.

Ultimately, I just don't think we have seen Leon tested by a comparable grappler to prime GSP, never mind one with GSP's overall skill set...and while Leon is a more complete fighter than most, I seriously doubt his ability to neutralize a prime GSP's grappling.

To the original question though...skill and attributes, I'd put GSP *clearly* above Leon, while Leon probably ranks no worse than top 5. The sport certainly evolves, and he is a very complete fighter.

Appreciate you actually offering up thoughtful analysis without hostility, as my OP contained no such hostility. This thread got fuckin weird.

 

[VAfan]

I love how you talk about the distinction between "greatest" vs "best", like its not a distinction that's been made in combat sports going back decades, and like I'm a crackhead for making that distinction. Are you new to combat sports? That's the first time you've EVER heard the distinction between greatest and best? You don't understand the distinction between greatness and best? Seriously?

whatever the distinction supposedly is, leon is neither of them.

 

[Relentless chase]

Tell me when GSP fought someone as big as Usman with a 5 round gas tank. Newsflash - he never did.

This is delusional. He lost to fucking Johnny Hendricks. This is the MMA equivalent of "90s rap was better!!!!". Grow up. Move on. Time keeps moving. It's embarassing to be perpetually stuck in the past.

You’re crazy if you think Usman makes it past Pre USADA Big Rigg or even Prime Condit.

I think Hughes and Koscheck would give Usman hell too. People are delusional if they think Usman’s Resume was tougher than GSP’s. 9 Consecutive Defenses, can Usman say the same??

Didn’t think so.

And GSP didn’t lose to Big Rigg. It was a close fight, tell me what GOAT never had a Questionable Win? Please, tell me one GOAT that never had a Questionable fight. Fedor, Aldo, Jones, Silva, they’ve ALL had fights we as Fans, still hold into Question.

GSP literally fought and defended his Title 9 Consecutive Times, Wear/Tear was starting to settle in and he needed that break he took. Tell me another Champion in History like GSP that didn’t look near Beatable at the end of their Reign, Hell Even Jones was looking Human against Guys he would’ve crushed back in his Prime. Mind you too, GSP fought Juiced Up Hendricks and Hendricks still lost.

 

[blackheart]

whatever the distinction supposedly is, leon is neither of them.

Let me give you an example. Since you're apparently new, despite having a 2006 account.

Muhammad Ali is the greatest heavyweight boxer of all time. To come back from losing to Frazier, and to knock out Foreman when the whole world wrote him off, is probably the greatest moment in heavyweight boxing history.

But he is not the best HW boxer of all time. Lennox Lewis, Wladimir Klitschko, Tyson Fury, and probably prime Mike Tyson, would have beaten Ali.

Greatness is not the same thing as your skills + physical attributes. There is a relationship between them, but they're not the same thing. This isn't hard to understand.