Are liberals really empathetic or do they just want to destroy middle class?

[VivaRevolution]

Yeah, interesting points. If I'd conjecture, I suspect it comes down to solving the consciousness problem. If not then strap in for extermination.

I don't really think it is logical for a AI to want to exterminate us.

We have to live on this planet. The AI doesn't have to.

I mean really think about it. What does this planet offer a machine, that Titan doesn't?

I would argue a moon with methane lakes, and rain offers more to machines.

 

[Greoric]

Oh, I see. You're still into redefining words...

Not really. How are their* salaries funded?

 

[Deleted member 159002]

Not really. How are there salaries funded?

Private sector unionized worker salaries are funded through company revenue, just like non-unionized private sector workers.

Public sector worker salaries are funded through taxation.

 

[Greoric]

I don't really think it is logical for a AI to want to exterminate us.

We have to live on this planet. The AI doesn't have to.

I mean really think about it. What does this planet offer a machine, that Titan doesn't?

I would argue a moon with methane lakes, and rain offers more to machines.

I like that take. To push back on that, it wouldn't likely crush us consciously (even assuming the "lights" would be on). Rather it would likely crush us the same way we'd unknowingly or uncaringly step on an ant hill to build some infrastructure. In that case, it's not immediately obvious to me it wouldn't use the resources that are already locally available as opposed to being inefficient with the logistics to get to a moon like Titan.

 

[Greoric]

Public sector worker salaries are funded through taxation.

Exactly. Theft.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I like that take. To push back on that, it wouldn't likely crush us consciously (even assuming the "lights" would be on). Rather it would likely crush us the same way we'd unknowingly or uncaringly step on an ant hill to build some infrastructure. In that case, it's not immediately obvious to me it wouldn't use the resources that are already locally available as opposed to being inefficient with the logistics to get to a moon like Titan.

Interesting. Yeah, I could see that. I guess it would largely come down to whether it is logical to show deference to your creator.

Sucks that the actual AI development is all secret. So interesting thinking about ideas of moral coding, what the actual fail safes are, ect.

 

[Greoric]

Interesting. Yeah, I could see that. I guess it would largely come down to whether it is logical to show deference to your creator.

Sucks that the actual AI development is all secret. So interesting thinking about ideas of moral coding, what the actual fail safes are, ect.

Holy hell let's hope so!

 

[Deleted member 159002]

Exactly. Theft.

I feel like I've already explained this to you, so there's probably not much point of me doing it again. Nonetheless... Something is a person's property if society recognizes him as having the right to use it and exclude others from it. This social recognition is codified in the law. The money a person is required to pay in taxes isn't his property, by definition. "Legalized theft" is an oxymoron.

 

[Mr. Shickadance]

The idea that some are still talking about a type of universal health care system like it’s 1992 pre internet explosion is insanity.

The truth is out there, it is no longer some unattainable myth. The examples are all over the 1st world. But here in America it’s ungodly and people still respond as if they haven’t read one piece of literature on this issue.

But hey poor and working class rubes are so dense they really don’t have a clue and stick to helping corporations over actual citizens of the country

I think the propaganda of anti communism worked very well in America that anything close to it i.e. socialist programs are the devil.

And not a pro communist but there has to be a happy medium.

 

[Greoric]

I feel like I've already explained this to you, so there's probably not much point of me doing it again. Nonetheless... Something is a person's property if society recognizes him as having the right to use it and exclude others from it. This social recognition is codified in the law. The money a person is required to pay in taxes isn't his property, by definition. Property isn't what a person subjectively thinks he's entitled to.

Society isn't commensurate with government, and neither is government commensurate with dictating ethical laws. Someone who produced a piece of property or exchanged for it by voluntary means is the rightful owner... regardless of whether a bureaucracy acting or not through a majority vote wants to claim otherwise.

 

[Greoric]

I think the propaganda of anti communism worked very well in America that anything close to it i.e. socialist programs are the devil.

And not a pro communist but there has to be a happy medium.

Because it is. Schemes of redistribution are inherently unethical, both from an avenue of consequentialism and deontologically.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

Society isn't commensurate with government, and neither is government commensurate with dictating ethical laws. Someone who produced a piece of property or exchanged it for voluntary means is the rightful owner... regardless of whether a bureaucracy acting or not through a majority vote wants to claim otherwise.

Whether or not you think taxation is ethical is irrelevant. The monopolization of force has been standard fare for civilization and that's not changing any time soon. As long as the government receives enough consent from its constituents to remain functional, its laws are the agreed upon basis for order in society.

 

[Greoric]

Whether or not you think taxation is ethical is irrelevant. The monopolization of force has been standard fare for civilization and that's not changing any time soon. As long as the government receives enough consent from its constituents to remain functional, its laws are the agreed upon basis for order in society.

The nation-state is actually a brand new fucking thing in the history of humankind. And the ethics is relevant because it is the point here. Public unions do not get paid because people voluntarily paid them. They get paid because everyone else around them was coerced into it. i.e. they are the middle class because of theft.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

The nation-state is actually a brand new fucking thing in the history of humankind. And the ethics is relevant because it is the point here. Public unions do not get paid because people voluntarily paid them. They get paid because everyone else around them was coerced into paying them. I.e. they are the middle class because of theft.

You do realize governments as an institution predate the nation state, right?

 

[franklinstower]

In NJ we got taxed to hell and it’s just generally a very expensive state to live in. Moreso, an if you’re planning for retirement through a diversified plan and are hoping to have kids, it’s not like you live like a king on that income.



What does that even mean? As much as they will ever need? Aka never retire and never pay off loans or actually own anything 100%?

There was a big study done on income and happiness. Obviously the number would have to be adjusted up or down depending on the area. 75K with health benefits was the number that produced happiness. Below that number and there is the discontent the comes from possibly not having enough. Above 75k only brought very slight increases in happiness. Over 100K or so brought none.

But what I meant is that everyone or most people think taxes should go up on people just above their income level.

 

[Greoric]

You do realize governments as an institution predate the nation state, right?

Governments as institutions, which levy taxes (theft) have not been around for the majority of human-kind.

Any justification for stealing from people to pay a salary for a service everyone has no choice in?

 

[nostradumbass]

Just in case TS is not picking up on the sarcasm in here the ACA raised taxes on high income earners. For example, the investment tax and payroll tax only applies to capital gains/incomes exceeding $200k or $250k if married. And obviously some of the tax credits reduce taxes.

I made 47,000 the year it was implemented. I got 0 health coverage and had to pay a fine for the privilege of not having medical insurance. If I got the insurance, it would have been 10,000 for the year..

 

[Greoric]

I made 47,000 the year it was implemented. I got 0 health coverage and had to pay a fine for the privilege of not having medical insurance.

Good to see you checked your privilege.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

Governments that exist as institutions, which levy taxes have not been around for the majority of human kind. Any justificantion for stealing from people to pay a salary for a service everyone has no choice in?

Governments have existed since before Christ. You conflated "nation state" with "government".

You still don't get it. The government is the very thing that determines what counts as property in its society. It -- the government -- determines what's yours and what you're required to contribute.

 

[Greoric]

Governments have existed since before Christ. You conflated "nation state" with "government".

You still don't get it. The government is the very thing that determines what counts as property in its society. It -- the government -- determines what's yours and what you're required to contribute.

That's hardly since the date of our speciation.

Is the argument here that recognition of property is impossible without a compulsory funded monopoly? Or its arbitration, perhaps, in the event of dispute?