All Time GOAT poll

[pankrat]

WUT? Who said anything of the sort? Mirko is a very good striker with solid TD defense. Not sure how that went from above average to p4p goat..

WTF were you saying here then:

Not saying CC was a bad fighter, he was definitely a good fighter but he's not really a GOAT based on his MMA career. He's a GOAT and Legend from a nostalgia/fan favorite point of view and he had some very iconic moments in MMA but wins/loss/achievements he's not a GOAT.

nobody has ever in sherdog talked about CroCop MMA GOAT, only you in that post

The bar for top 10 at HWT is pretty low, TBH.

There have been very few actually dominant HWT. Fedor, Stipe.....then maybe Nog? Then everyone else that didn't suck? Then those that sucked?

For me there's the big four:
Fedor
Stope
Nog
DC

then you have tier 2 guys:
Mirko
JDS
Barnett
Coleman
Cain
Werdum

Tier 3
Mir
Arlovski
Syvia

I mean, the list of good HWT isn't very long so not hard to make the top 10 compared to other weights. But is Mirko "great" because he was good in a shit division? I would say no. Fedor is great because he was great, Stipe is going that direction too.

lol what a load of crap more so for a guy who say have watched the sport for 30 years. Those tiers you typed lol and your theory about everybody except a handful of them in the ABSOLUTE division sucking is a load of crap friend

You say Crocop is a solid top10 HW of all time and at the same time that he is just an above average fighter

 

[SirRealKiller]

WTF were you saying here then:





nobody has ever in sherdog talked about CroCop MMA GOAT, only you in that post



lol what a load of crap more so for a guy who say have watched the sport for 30 years. Those tiers you typed lol and your theory about everybody except a handful of them in the ABSOLUTE division sucking is a load of crap friend

You say Crocop is a solid top10 HW of all time and at the same time that he is just an above average fighter

I was saying CC is a GOAT according to the fans. I grant that he has had some of the memorable moments at HWT. Maybe I should have said he is GOAT from a hype point of view.

It's not a load of crap. You look at any other division and the skill level of the top 10 right now probably as good or better than the Top 10 of all time at HWT.

 

[Prefect]

I kind of soured a little bit on GSP when he went after Bisping
Just seems like he took the easiest path, and I always thought he was cute concerned about his legacy which meant he ended up almost picking fights he knew he could win or playing it safe

He is old and was retired for years.

 

[pankrat]

I was saying CC is a GOAT according to the fans. I grant that he has had some of the memorable moments at HWT. Maybe I should have said he is GOAT from a hype point of view.

It's not a load of crap. You look at any other division and the skill level of the top 10 right now probably as good or better than the Top 10 of all time at HWT.

It's crap since its like saying the skill level of top5 LHWs is not better than that of top20 BWs....and it's probably true, it's generally so in combat sports, yet you must be really clueless to draw conclussions from it.

Especially regarding the heavyweight division, where there is literally nobody else who could beat them in a fight. there is a reason why LHWs prefer to stay at 205 right?
Obvioulsy a 220+ man will not work tecniques as lighter smaller bodies what a fucking retarded argument

Anyways Werdum, for example, is a extremely skilled fighter in the ground. Mirko in his prime in the ring could give him all sort of trouble, a bad matchup for yet another all-time great heavyweight.
Lot of crap imo that you deliver to pretend CroCop was a "just above average" fighter

 

[SirRealKiller]

It's crap since its like saying the skill level of top5 LHWs is not better than that of top20 BWs....and it's probably true, it's generally so in combat sports, yet you must be really clueless to draw conclussions from it.

Especially regarding the heavyweight division, where there is literally nobody else who could beat them in a fight. there is a reason why LHWs prefer to stay at 205 right?
Obvioulsy a 220+ man will not work tecniques as lighter smaller bodies what a fucking retarded argument

Anyways Werdum, for example, is a extremely skilled fighter in the ground. Mirko in his prime in the ring could give him all sort of trouble, a bad matchup for yet another all-time great heavyweight.
Lot of crap imo that you deliver to pretend CroCop was a "just above average" fighter

Above-average when you are talking the relevant guys at the weight. Of course if you compare him to every HWT that ever fought in Pride, UFC...ect he'd look great but we already covered the quality of HWT division. There really has never been two truly great HWTs at any given time outside of Fedor and Nog.

Werdum is the GOAT submission HWT, no doubt.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

Because a solid 70% of the fanbase on this forum are 35 year olds that can’t turn the page on the past.

Fedor is a legend, but his resume and opponents are questionable.

Its funny how many fighters, who actually got to train with each other, mistakenly thought that Fedor was good too. Clearly guys like GSP, Cain, and in fact way too many to list here (Google what fighters think about Fedor), are easy to fool. Probably most of us Sherdoggers could work out with them and fool them into thinking we're great fighters as well, because obviously top level fighters can't tell if someone is good or not.

Fedor was the best of his age. Things progress. But when you're talking about greatness its normal to compare to the best of your day. That's why Galileo is considered one of the greatest scientists ever, even though he couldn't pass a high school science test today. Why Jesse Owens is considered one of the greatest sprinters ever, though his times are regularly beaten by high school students today. Why Jack Johnson is considered one of the greatest boxers ever, though he'd get beaten by most good amateurs today. Give all them today's training and they'd still be the best.

If you mean absolute best, I and anyone with a physics degree is a better physicist than Newton (who most physicists think is tied with Einstein as the best physicist ever). We'd never claim to be better than Newton though, because we know that with today's education Newton would still be a world changing physicists, whereas with Newton's education none of us would have been able to invent Newtonian mechanics or invent calculus.

 

[pankrat]

Above-average when you are talking the relevant guys at the weight. Of course if you compare him to every HWT that ever fought in Pride, UFC...ect he'd look great but we already covered the quality of HWT division. There really has never been two truly great HWTs at any given time outside of Fedor and Nog.

Werdum is the GOAT submission HWT, no doubt.

so now you basically mean Mirko is an average all-time great HW...what kind of stupid talk is that?

btw what kind of weak stance is that supported on "relevant" standards?...The sport have 25+ years and there have been a number of "relevant" fighters every time, CroCop remained at the very top of the ladder for like half a decade. That's elite, not anything close to average.

Just more crap regarding your take on Hunt, who you dont even include in the ridiculously clueless tiers you typed earlier hahah.
Hunt in his UFC run from 2011-2017, already around his 40s, beat a whole lot of ranked heavyweights - usually by Walk Off - and only guys who beat him convincingly were UFC heavyweight champions.
Lightheavyweights and lighter men - even the best of them . prefered to stay away from the "unskilled" "average fighter" Hunt lol what a load of crap boy

 

[SirRealKiller]

so now you basically mean Mirko is an average all-time great HW...what kind of stupid talk is that?

btw what kind of weak stance is that supported on "relevant" standards?...The sport have 25+ years and there have been a number of "relevant" fighters every time, CroCop remained at the very top of the ladder for like half a decade. That's elite, not anything close to average.

Just more crap regarding your take on Hunt, who you dont even include in the ridiculously clueless tiers you typed earlier hahah.
Hunt in his UFC run from 2011-2017, already around his 40s, beat a whole lot of ranked heavyweights - usually by Walk Off - and only guys who beat him convincingly were UFC heavyweight champions.
Lightheavyweights and lighter men - even the best of them . prefered to stay away from the "unskilled" "average fighter" Hunt lol what a load of crap boy

Relevant meaning when you look back you know they were a good fighter and in actual contention for a championship. Not some of these cans that might have been a top 5 contender at one point but really had no shot.

The tiers were just some of the fighers for example purposes, not all of them.

You seem to define GOAT as anyone you saw on TV a bunch of times.

 

[pankrat]

Its funny how many fighters, who actually got to train with each other, mistakenly thought that Fedor was good too. Clearly guys like GSP, Cain, and in fact way too many to list here (Google what fighters think about Fedor), are easy to fool. Probably most of us Sherdoggers could work out with them and fool them into thinking we're great fighters as well, because obviously top level fighters can't tell if someone is good or not.

Fedor was the best of his age. Things progress. But when you're talking about greatness its normal to compare to the best of your day. That's why Galileo is considered one of the greatest scientists ever, even though he couldn't pass a high school science test today. Why Jesse Owens is considered one of the greatest sprinters ever, though his times are regularly beaten by high school students today. Why Jack Johnson is considered one of the greatest boxers ever, though he'd get beaten by most good amateurs today. Give all them today's training and they'd still be the best.

If you mean absolute best, I and anyone with a physics degree is a better physicist than Newton (who most physicists think is tied with Einstein as the best physicist ever). We'd never claim to be better than Newton though, because we know that with today's education Newton would still be a world changing physicists, whereas with Newton's education none of us would have been able to invent Newtonian mechanics or invent calculus.

Great post
The progress gap in your analogies - physics, athletics, boxing - isnt even remotely comparable to the progression of the HW division between 2010 and 2020 in MMA though

 

[pankrat]

You seem to define GOAT as anyone you saw on TV a bunch of times.

great arguments btw

go around saying Hunt was an "average" fighter and CroCop "just above average"
and that brilliant theory about "relevants" and "cans"

you've been watching the sport longer than I have been alive you say :S

 

[SirRealKiller]

great arguments btw

go around saying Hunt was an "average" fighter and CroCop "just above average"
and that brilliant theory about "relevants" and "cans"

you've been watching the sport longer than I have been alive you say :S

Opposed to you actually arguing Cro Cop is a GOAT and Hunt is not far behind?

Neither of these guys really could beat the actual GOATs.

 

[pankrat]

Opposed to you actually arguing Cro Cop is a GOAT and Hunt is not far behind?

Neither of these guys really could beat the actual GOATs.

nobody talled about Mirko as a GOAT contender except you, I already quoted you before. holly shit you are actually dense

 

[SirRealKiller]

nobody talled about Mirko as a GOAT contender except you, I already quoted you before. holly shit you are actually dense

Then what the fuck is you problem then dipshit? I never said he was a GOAT, I said he was good. He's not GOAT. Maybe you just need to shut the fuck up if all you want to do is be trolling dipshit.

 

[pankrat]

Then what the fuck is you problem then dipshit? I never said he was a GOAT, I said he was good. He's not GOAT. Maybe you just need to shut the fuck up if all you want to do is be trolling dipshit.

My problem is a shertard calling Mirko a "just above average" fighter and Hunt and average one...and refusing to acknowledge that's bullshit.

Arguing is certainly not you strenght thats why I went trolling. Yes, you are the only who talked about Crocop as a GOAT candidate in this post:

Not saying CC was a bad fighter, he was definitely a good fighter but he's not really a GOAT based on his MMA career. He's a GOAT and Legend from a nostalgia/fan favorite point of view and he had some very iconic moments in MMA but wins/loss/achievements he's not a GOAT.

Nobody have talked about Mirko as GOAT p4p until you. that why I say you must be real dense.

There is an entire world between "average" and GOAT you monumental shertard. Mirko is an all-time great heavyweight, that's far from average regardless of your "the division sucked" "relevant fighters" crap arguments

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

Great post
The progress gap in your analogies - physics, athletics, boxing - isnt even remotely comparable to the progression of the HW division between 2010 and 2020 in MMA though

I don't think there's been anything like that amount of progress in MMA either. My point is that it wouldn't matter if there was -- greatness is always measured against the best of your day, so its irrelevant how much progress there's been in a field.

 

[SirRealKiller]

My problem is a shertard calling Mirko a "just above average" fighter and Hunt and average one...and refusing to acknowledge that's bullshit.

I like some trolling but not only, problem is arguing is certainly not you strenght. Yes, you are the only who talked about Crocop as a GOAT candidate in this post:

Mirko is just above average for a guy that fought as much as he did in the two biggest promotions. He's not great. There's BAD-AVERAGE-GREAT. There's a big range between Average and Great. I say above average because I think there's a debate as to how far toward the higher end of average he is. It also means that while I'll listen to arguments about where he lands between average and great, I will not listen to him being said to be "great" because I don't see the logic.

Nobody have talked about Mirko as GOAT p4p until you. that why I say you must be real dense.

There is an entire world between "average" and GOAT you monumental shertard. Mirko is an all-time great heavyweight, that's far from average regardless of your "the division sucked" "relevant fighters" crap arguments

No shit Sherlock. See above.

 

[pankrat]

I don't think there's been anything like that amount of progress in MMA either. My point is that it wouldn't matter if there was -- greatness is always measured against the best of your day, so its irrelevant how much progress there's been in a field.

I agree with the point.
I do think the progress since the first Shooto events 30+ years ago - which are usually considered the first sanctioned MMA bouts - is very notable but not that much in the last decade and particularly in the heavyweight division

 

[pankrat]

Mirko is just above average for a guy that fought as much as he did in the two biggest promotions. He's not great. There's BAD-AVERAGE-GREAT. There's a big range between Average and Great. I say above average because I think there's a debate as to how far toward the higher end of average he is. It also means that while I'll listen to arguments about where he lands between average and great, I will not listen to him being said to be "great" because I don't see the logic..

Of course you dont see the logic mate, you are a mess

That BAD-AVERAGE-GREAT standards you have just improvised is just more crap for your already epic crap record in this thread.That's NOT how fighters are regarded in any combat sport, tard.

Anyways as I said you are a mess and dont even make sense. You have just said Mirko is an all-time top10 great heavyweight and at the same time you label him as average lol you are full of shit

 

[SirRealKiller]

Of course you dont see the logic mate, you are a mess

That BAD-AVERAGE-GREAT standards you have just improvised is just more crap for your already epic crap record in this thread.That's NOT how fighters are regarded in any combat sport, tard.

Anyways as I said you are a mess and dont even make sense. You have just said Mirko is an all-time top10 great heavyweight and at the same time you label him as average lol you are full of shit

I said GOAT from an entertainment/hype/fan opinion point of view. Yeah, everyone wanted to see Mirko fight because he could take someone's head off but he could also get KTFO himself. He had heart, was tough as hell.

I look at fighters in two ways:
#1-Results/Achievements/Skill
#2- Entertainment/Likeability

Hunt and CC are both GOATs under #2 but only Average to Good in #1.

 

[pankrat]

Why Jack Johnson is considered one of the greatest boxers ever, though he'd get beaten by most good amateurs today..

I dont think most good amateurs today beat Jack Johnson, especially among 200lbers as him and under the rule-set from back then