All Time GOAT poll

[linvillegorge]

I've been following MMA since 2010

This is why you don't get it.

 

[Krimzon]

if you weren't watching mma since 2001, no amount of explanation will really do it justice.

 

[SirRealKiller]

It's cool you ask to be educated but you could have avoided making ridiculously noob statements like "Hunt was completely average in the UFC" or saying CroCop or Nogueira were somehow in their primes when they had been fighting in the elite since the 90s.

You also need to be educated between the major differences between fighting in the ring and in the cage

Well, Hunt is a pretty average fighter when you look at results/achievements. He's a fan favorite but in reality, he had a couple of nice wins and that's about it. I like Hunt. He's tough as hell, maybe the heaviest hitter in HWT history but actual MMA fighter and results just average or maybe a little better. He generally beat the cans he fought but he didn't beat many of the quality fighters he faced.

Cro-Cop is pretty similar to Hunt but has more quality wins so he's above average but not in the GOAT conversation at all. Again, fun fighter to watch and I like him and understand why he's so well-liked but actual results and achievements don't match the hype most folks have for him.

 

[FastSmith7]

You did read my " muddied waters" concerning Jones ?

As far as those scalps - LMFAO . He is one of the goats. Hes just not thee goat.
Penn 1 couldve went either way. Penn 2 was easy money as penn learned, size wise, things changed quite a bit in the world of mma. Hughes was complacent ( not willing to evolve)and fell off the map.....quick.Bisping - fuckingplease. .cherry picking at its finest. A four year off the shelf welter favored to beat 185 champ ( and I use that word lightly or a flat out punchline in bispings case).
When was the last time Diaz won a fight ?
Oh yeah- against a half his size bj penn who in getting beat up still marked up " the great Nick Diaz " something good.
He finally did have some balls in standing with prime condit( as his scar tissue did give way but a good performance).

What about his 25 minute smotherfests over guys he was heavily favored to beat ( also half the fights [ or more] that u mentioned) that went to the cards
GTFO.

But he dominated every minute of the 25 minute smotherfests... Again you're making excuses he did beat Penn in the first fight although it was fairly close. He then beat Penn again but here you are again making excuses to downplay his achievements. Hughes was complacent... he is considered one of the WW goats and GSP beat him twice. Beating Bisping after a 4 year lay off... cherry pick LMAO.
Diaz was 11-1 in his previous 12 fights when he fought GSP
He then 50-45 Carlos Condit

The only asterisk with his record is the Hendricks fight... Georges didn't even want to fight anymore and knew his opponent is juiced to the gills, he fell out of love with MMA and that affected the way the fight went.

 

[chinarice]

I've been more hardcore about boxing and been following MMA since 2010 and in my opinion GSP is the greatest MMA fighter I've seen however I've never understood why Fedor is considered to be GOAT by so many. Looking at his resume... it doesn't look that impressive, he hasn't got a single win over an elite fighter.

Cro Cop arguably his best win... he got absolute destroyed in the UFC, true that he went to the UFC when he was 32 but fighters in the higher weights are usually able to maintain their prime into 36-37. Cro Cop who got beat by Mark Hunt who was completely average in the UFC as well.

Big Nog... same thing, joined the UFC at the age of 30/31... definition of prime age and also got dismantled by everyone.

Fedor beat... what it seems like to me, mostly average fighters, none of them have any distinct achievements and fought when MMA was still fresh and very underdeveloped.

Please I'd love to be educated as to why.

Nog became UFC HW champ while being past his prime.......

 

[beastman]

Just like NBA, NFL, NHL you have to look at the era. Too many changes in rules and training to really be able to compare early fighters to late fighters.

From 02-09, Fedor was the dominant HW. He didn't fight in the UFC but has finished a ton of their champs. I'd guess he's defeated the most former UFC champions, but that is a guess.

 

[FastSmith7]

I don't get it...It seems most mma fans can't just have a decent conversation/debate, they have to go full retard one way or the other. We got the Fedor is goat no questions asked fans and the "he hasn't beaten a single elite fighter" fans on the complete other side. No one can just say normal shit, you gotta go stupid over the top around here to make your point I guess but it just makes people look stupid. For one, if you weren't watching then and just studying fight finder you should probably just be quiet cause you don't know any of the fighters obviously. All these mma "fans" that have most of their knowledge from fight finder are pathetic. I'm sure you think Sakuraba is a totally overrated bum too.

Instead of providing arguments why he is the GOAT... you just say "Ohhh.... You didn't follow MMA back then so you don't know shit". That's why I say I'd love to be educated as to why. Heavyweight has been the weakest divison in MMA history, but just like in boxing it brings in a lot of viewers because of the size and power involved

 

[2004 account]

The mma casual fan ignorance is strong itt lol

You can tell when they stoop low to using words that don't even make sense in this context like calling an mma fan a "Stan" (which is a slim shady clone, and doesn't apply here to Fedor fans, nobody is trying fight like him nor look like him). Plus the arguments ts presents are the same that have all been refuted before by more knowledgable fans in these forums... People who have been following the sport longer and know.


So right off the bat you got too much ignorance to educate just on the first page alone. Years later you casuals will become hardcore fans and earn your stripes...and only then will you learn your mma history and context and will come back to this thread to see how ignorant you were in the last (and you'll feel ashamed of it.)


Mma fan since 2010, lol. OK buddy. Nobody will have the patience to school you, people have lives and jobs, yes even on here.

 

[BFoe]

Understand that Fedor Emelianenko was pretty much universally considered the #1 P4P fighter in MMA for 7 straight years. He is a small-ish HW that was undefeated for a decade, despite fighting in an org where stomps, knees to the head of a grounded opponent and soccer kicks were legal. He has more title defenses than any UFC HW, and has fought more ranked opponents that any of them except for Nog, whom he beat twice. And he did that in one continuous, unbeaten streak.
What he accomplished may never be equaled and certainly won’t be by any HW. That is why Fedor is the GOAT.

 

[mirko>anyone]

You're *ALMOST* right: In reality, a lot of this forum ACTUALLY WATCHED MMA in the late 90's/early 2000's, so they actually know the nuance, circumstances, and context of the fights and fighters at the time. Same goes for boxing, and oh wait, any other sport. OF COURSE NOOBS won't understand why the old Great's were so great. Instead they just scratch their heads and say "B-but any modern fighter would kick their ass".

Yeah, while to an extent I can see both sides, I’ve been ridiculed more than once for having an older account.

like, experiencing MMA longer and being able to contextualize certain aspects makes me “living in the past”.

It doesn’t mean that long time fandom can’t blind you with nostalgia, Because we see old posters who are clearly delusional, but that’s never when my join date is brought up. It’s almost always in a derogatory sense.

“You don’t think Khabib is a bigger star than Ronda Rousey or Brock Lesnar, old man?!?!?!? He HaS mOrE iNsTaGrAm followers!”

You mean, people who peak during contemporary social media have more presence there?


He’s never broken a million without a dance partner, who coincidently, is the biggest MMA star ever. I guess Conor McGregor is a bigger star than Mike Tyson since he drew 4 Million PPV buys with Mayweather.

 

[cburm]

I've been more hardcore about boxing and been following MMA since 2010 and in my opinion GSP is the greatest MMA fighter I've seen however I've never understood why Fedor is considered to be GOAT by so many. Looking at his resume... it doesn't look that impressive, he hasn't got a single win over an elite fighter.

Cro Cop arguably his best win... he got absolute destroyed in the UFC, true that he went to the UFC when he was 32 but fighters in the higher weights are usually able to maintain their prime into 36-37. Cro Cop who got beat by Mark Hunt who was completely average in the UFC as well.

Big Nog... same thing, joined the UFC at the age of 30/31... definition of prime age and also got dismantled by everyone.

Fedor beat... what it seems like to me, mostly average fighters, none of them have any distinct achievements and fought when MMA was still fresh and very underdeveloped.

Please I'd love to be educated as to why.

Following mma since 2010 says it all maybe you shouldn't wonder about fedor then and things you weren't there for and stick to you're opinion...

Never mind the hw champion who reigned undefeated champ for a decade

 

[TerrorTimmy]

He doesn't have a UFC record. Consequently, he can never be a reasonable GOAT contender. It is like naming a basketball player in the Chinese League the "GOAT."

Plus, Fedor had the opportunity to have a UFC record, and he ducked. The dude has had a career full of fights post-PRIDE, and not a single one of them was in the UFC.

Moreover, Fedor was great in a ring with PRIDE rules (which in essence makes it a different from sport from UFC MMA). Therefore, comparing Fedor to fighters who will never fight in a ring with PRIDE rules is STUPID. It is almost the same as comparing Ice Hockey players to Field Hockey players. Silly.

Does Fedor have a resume that indicates he could have conquered the UFC. Yes. No doubt about it. But did he conquer the UFC? No. Truth. The GOAT cannot be based on hypothetical scenarios such as "but but but Fedor beat a million UFC champions..." arguments. He didn't fight in the UFC. So, he didn't beat any UFC champion. Period. LOL

Rant over. Carry on with your hypothetical counter-arguments. hehe

Except PRIDE had the much deeper HW division in those days, and even UFC fans knew it. It wasn't "UFC and then everything else" like it is today, it was "PRIDE, UFC, and then everything else" - and PRIDE had a deeper LHW (PRIDE MW) division as well.

There's a bigger world of MMA than just the UFC. The organization you're fighting for matters less than the quality of competition you face, and Fedor fought damn near every great HW of his day and beat them.

You don't need to hate Fedor just to make someone else look better. You can acknowledge he was an all-time great, even if you think someone else was better.

 

[86_religion]

I don't get it...It seems most mma fans can't just have a decent conversation/debate, they have to go full retard one way or the other. We got the Fedor is goat no questions asked fans and the "he hasn't beaten a single elite fighter" fans on the complete other side. No one can just say normal shit, you gotta go stupid over the top around here to make your point I guess but it just makes people look stupid. For one, if you weren't watching then and just studying fight finder you should probably just be quiet cause you don't know any of the fighters obviously. All these mma "fans" that have most of their knowledge from fight finder are pathetic. I'm sure you think Sakuraba is a totally overrated bum too.

First, this is going to make me one of the people that can't say normal shit but in a different way. I think Sakuraba belongs on a stamp and should also have a 30 foot tall bronze statue erected in his honor. Okay, got that out of the way. One thing that I think is impressive about Fedor is that his opponents constantly outweighed him by a significant amount. I don't know the actual weights for each fight for him or his opponents during fight nights, but I think it was a significant difference. That's something that always impressed my about that mofo.

I'm an old school fan... I even went to see UFC 4 live in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Yep... #4. So I'm biased in many ways and really, really favor a lot of the older fighters, but to me it's hard to skip GSP or Might Mouse as the clear leaders of the stupid GOAT title.

 

[Franklin U.]

But he dominated every minute of the 25 minute smotherfests... Again you're making excuses he did beat Penn in the first fight although it was fairly close. He then beat Penn again but here you are again making excuses to downplay his achievements. Hughes was complacent... he is considered one of the WW goats and GSP beat him twice. Beating Bisping after a 4 year lay off... cherry pick LMAO.
Diaz was 11-1 in his previous 12 fights when he fought GSP
He then 50-45 Carlos Condit

The only asterisk with his record is the Hendricks fight... Georges didn't even want to fight anymore and knew his opponent is juiced to the gills, he fell out of love with MMA and that affected the way the fight went.

Hey - wake the fuck up !!
I'm not saying George's isnt one of the goats - it's just my God given opinion- AS A FUCKING CAGE FIGHTER- that hes not #1 and further down the goat ladder.

Take a hard look at Bispings ledger. Theres a reason why gsp would ONLY fight the likes of a Mike Bisping at 185.
The truth hurts and fans will stick by their favorites , no matter.

 

[pankrat]

Well, Hunt is a pretty average fighter when you look at results/achievements. He's a fan favorite but in reality, he had a couple of nice wins and that's about it. I like Hunt. He's tough as hell, maybe the heaviest hitter in HWT history but actual MMA fighter and results just average or maybe a little better. He generally beat the cans he fought but he didn't beat many of the quality fighters he faced.

Cro-Cop is pretty similar to Hunt but has more quality wins so he's above average but not in the GOAT conversation at all. Again, fun fighter to watch and I like him and understand why he's so well-liked but actual results and achievements don't match the hype most folks have for him.

Hunt's record is 8-14 in his last 22 fights, explain to me how he's considered so good.

OMG a couple of noob shertards saying CroCop was just "above average"...


First of all, Crocop was unanimously considered a top3 HW in the world - not by sherdoggers, but by fellow top fighters - because of beating many guys including Josh Barnett three times who was himself far from "just above average". So get a grip, you guys dont know better than the top fighters themselves lol.

You probably dont have the slighest idea that Mirko was already competing in the elite of kickboxing by mid-90s and you dont even remotely understand the toll competing at such level takes on your body.
So apart from a decade in the elite of kickboxing rings, he eventually adapted his game to MMA rules still in the ring, and as stated, unanimoustly earned top3 status as a HW.

Then, after 10+ years in the elite of combat sports including many serious injuries, a couple of shertards expect the guy to make another transition to a completely different environment - cage and UFC ruleset - without losing a step, otherwise he wil get relegated to nothing but "above average" in their noob eyes.

Regarding Hunt, he was always a more limited MMA fighter than Mirko and way more undisciplined athlete but it's pretty telling still at 44 years old KOed a guy who had just fought for the tittle in Derrick Lewis, fought for UFC gold himself, beat Mirko fucking Crocop among other HWs as Nelson, Bigfoot, Mir, Kongo or Rothwell who are already way above average themselves.
Apart from many good performances vs world-class HWs and UFC champions even in the loss

You would know if you actually watched fights and had a clue instead of pretending to build opinions about a fighter based on numbers in his record.
Also, go check what average means in the dictionary. Enslish is not my first language but there is no way you can look at it where Hunt - let alone CroCop - were average, or "just above average" fighters it's actually a ridiculous thing to say even in sherdog

 

[SirRealKiller]

OMG a couple of noob shertards saying CroCop was just "above average"...


First of all, Crocop was unanimously considered a top3 HW in the world - not by sherdoggers, but by fellow top fighters - because of beating many guys including Josh Barnett three times who was himself far from "just above average". So get a grip, you guys dont know better than the top fighters themselves lol.

You probably dont have the slighest idea that Mirko was already competing in the elite of kickboxing by mid-90s and you dont even remotely understand the toll competing at such level takes on your body.
So apart from a decade in the elite of kickboxing rings, he eventually adapted his game to MMA rules still in the ring, and as stated, unanimoustly earned top3 status as a HW.

Then, after 10+ years in the elite of combat sports including many serious injuries, a couple of shertards expect the guy to make another transition to a completely different environment - cage and UFC ruleset - without losing a step, otherwise he wil get relegated to nothing but "above average" in their noob eyes.

Regarding Hunt, he was always a more limited MMA fighter than Mirko and way more undisciplined athlete but it's pretty telling still at 44 years old KOed a guy who had just fought for the tittle in Derrick Lewis, fought for UFC gold himself, beat Mirko fucking Crocop among other HWs as Nelson, Bigfoot, Mir, Kongo or Rothwell who are already way above average themselves.
Apart from many good performances vs world-class HWs and UFC champions even in the loss

You would know if you actually watched fights and had a clue instead of pretending to build opinions about a fighter based on numbers in his record.
Also, go check what average means in the dictionary. Enslish is not my first language but there is no way you can look at it where Hunt - let alone CroCop - were average, or "just above average" fighters it's actually a ridiculous thing to say even in sherdog

Noob? I've probably been watching MMA and combat sports longer than you've been alive, dipshit.

I'm talking MMA, not kickboxing. If you look at Cro-Cop's MMA career it was good, not great.

He Barnett was CC's best win by a mile unless you count beating an LHW. So if talking HWT and MMA record it's good, not great. He had a good GP where he beat two Japanese guys that weren't very good, beat Wanderlei who was a LHW most of his career, and then beat Barnett. You take out that GP and you look at CC's MMA career and

 

[pankrat]

Noob? I've probably been watching MMA and combat sports longer than you've been alive, dipshit.

I'm talking MMA, not kickboxing. If you look at Cro-Cop's MMA career it was good, not great.

He Barnett was CC's best win by a mile unless you count beating an LHW. So if talking HWT and MMA record it's good, not great. He had a good GP where he beat two Japanese guys that weren't very good, beat Wanderlei who was a LHW most of his career, and then beat Barnett. You take out that GP and you look at CC's MMA career and

to be fair, noob was aimed to the guy who started the discussion but shertard could apply to you lol no offense.

I referenced his kickboxing and ring fighting mileage to put "his prime" in context, especially for noobs who pretend to rate him as a fighter based on his UFC performances.

Beating Josh Barnett several times already qualifies you way, way above average. Period.
Mirko fought who was put in fron of him and he didnt just beat Wanderlei, he obliterated him, as he did Aleks Emelianenko o Yoshida among others, who are as good if not better than some UFC tittle contenders from that era.
Even in the loss, it's not that hard to understand that giving a GOAT candidate one of his toughest tests during his prime gives you credit as well. Certainly closer to elite than above average,

 

[SirRealKiller]

to be fair, noob was aimed to the guy who started the discussion but shertard could apply to you lol no offense.

I referenced his kickboxing and ring fighting mileage to put "his prime" in context, especially for noobs who pretend to rate him as a fighter based on his UFC performances.

Beating Josh Barnett several times already qualifies you way, way above average. Period.
Mirko fought who was put in fron of him and he didnt just beat Wanderlei, he obliterated him, as he did Aleks Emelianenko o Yoshida among others, who are as good if not better than some UFC tittle contenders from that era.
Even in the loss, it's not that hard to understand that giving a GOAT candidate one of his toughest tests during his prime gives you credit as well. Certainly closer to elite than above average,

He beat Barnett 3x in less than two years and one of those was a freak injury 46 seconds into the fight.

I thnk Mirko matched up with Barnett well because is he has good TD defense (even though not being a very good grappler) and Barnett wasn't a good enough striker to be a threat to a good striker. Also, Barnett for being a good grappler was a fucking turtle on his back. This was also in Barnett's fattest phase of his career and dude gassed early in every fight. I think prime Barnett (Not on PEDS) vs Nog or Fedor's little bro probably beats CC.

Not saying CC was a bad fighter, he was definitely a good fighter but he's not really a GOAT based on his MMA career. He's a GOAT and Legend from a nostalgia/fan favorite point of view and he had some very iconic moments in MMA but wins/loss/achievements he's not a GOAT.

 

[pankrat]

He beat Barnett 3x in less than two years and one of those was a freak injury 46 seconds into the fight.

I thnk Mirko matched up with Barnett well because is he has good TD defense (even though not being a very good grappler) and Barnett wasn't a good enough striker to be a threat to a good striker. Also, Barnett for being a good grappler was a fucking turtle on his back. This was also in Barnett's fattest phase of his career and dude gassed early in every fight. I think prime Barnett (Not on PEDS) vs Nog or Fedor's little bro probably beats CC.

Not saying CC was a bad fighter, he was definitely a good fighter but he's not really a GOAT based on his MMA career. He's a GOAT and Legend from a nostalgia/fan favorite point of view and he had some very iconic moments in MMA but wins/loss/achievements he's not a GOAT.

so we go from "just above average" to p4p GOAT candidate in a couple of replies LOL

Barnet - with 20lbs advantage - was a favourable style matchup ok, were UFC champions Sylvia or Arlovski bad matchups? Crocop was certainly the more profficient striker than them and acually gave a tougher fight to GOAT candidate Fedor

I've never read anybody claiming Mirko is a p4p GOAT contender but he is definitely one of the all-time great heavyweights, arguably top5, easily top10.

As for Mark Hunt, not sure there have ever been 20 HWs better than him in 30 years of the sport so his status is way beyond "above average" or "very average" as the other ubernoob said

 

[SirRealKiller]

so we go from "just above average" to p4p GOAT candidate in a couple of replies LOL

WUT? Who said anything of the sort? Mirko is a very good striker with solid TD defense. Not sure how that went from above average to p4p goat.

[quote}Barnet - with 20lbs advantage - was a favourable style matchup ok, were UFC champions Sylvia or Arlovski bad matchups? Crocop was certainly the more profficient striker than them and acually gave a tougher fight to GOAT candidate Fedor

I've never read anybody claiming Mirko is a p4p GOAT contender but he is definitely one of the all-time great heavyweights, arguably top5, easily top10.

As for Mark Hunt, not sure there have ever been 20 HWs better than him in 30 years of the sport so his status is way beyond "above average" or "very average" as the other ubernoob said[/QUOTE]

The bar for top 10 at HWT is pretty low, TBH.

There have been very few actually dominant HWT. Fedor, Stipe.....then maybe Nog? Then everyone else that didn't suck? Then those that sucked?

For me there's the big four:
Fedor
Stope
Nog
DC

then you have tier 2 guys:
Mirko
JDS
Barnett
Coleman
Cain
Werdum

Tier 3
Mir
Arlovski
Syvia

I mean, the list of good HWT isn't very long so not hard to make the top 10 compared to other weights. But is Mirko "great" because he was good in a shit division? I would say no. Fedor is great because he was great, Stipe is going that direction too.