All Time GOAT poll

Don't think he's in the GOAT convo for all weight classes for me personally but gotta consider Prides HW Division was much more competitive than the UFC at the time. Also when those dudes came over to UFC there was a lot more wear and tear on them. Stipe definitely faced tougher competition overall but at the time he was fighting the best the HW division had to offer. By the same argument him beating Arlovski at the time should be considered good by the age argument coming off of wins against Rothwell, Werdum and Nelson.

We're going to see the goal post move as newer more evolved and athletic fighters are coming into the sport but at the time he was the best in the weight class without much argument.
 
You've been following mma since 2010 so that would explain alot. I'm getting sick of goat talk. For one reason or another , there is still yet to compare THAT GUY to all standards. Jon Jones has come closest but peds have muddied those waters.Fedor is one of the goats as is gsp . I still dont understand how so many people think gsp is at the very top of the list . Hes not. Actual " cage fighting", his opponents ( which isnt his fault), and REAL longevity keeps him from that top spot. Yes, he had many defenses of title but context/ opponents count. I'd put , at least, a half dozen fighters ahead of gsp
. Again- dont get me wrong- one of the goats.
There is no " goat " in a sport that is still considered young. Jones is the best arguement but again.......
Jones is a certified steroid cheat, who should have two losses vs Santos and Reyes and always fought shorter guys with the exception of Gus who unsurprisingly gave him the most trouble and Reyes + Santos who are similar height to him.
GSP has wins over BJ Penn 2x, Matt Huges 2x, Jake Shields who is very underrated, Bisping after 4 years out, Nick Diaz, prime Condit... nobody has collected better scalps in MMA history.
 
Because a solid 70% of the fanbase on this forum are 35 year olds that can’t turn the page on the past.

Fedor is a legend, but his resume and opponents are questionable.
I'm 43 and have been watching since MMA for most promotions since UFC 1 and I don't think Fedor is the clear GOAT. I think an argument can be made but Stipe at least as good, I think if DC fought more at HWT he could be in there too.
 
Cro Cop arguably his best win... he got absolute destroyed in the UFC, true that he went to the UFC when he was 32 but fighters in the higher weights are usually able to maintain their prime into 36-37. Cro Cop who got beat by Mark Hunt who was completely average in the UFC as well.

That to me is the biggest argument against Fedor because people had put Fedor on such a pedestal they thought that CC who gave him a competitive fight would roll over the UFC HW's.. I mean why not because Fedor is the GOAT Right? Well turns out CC got rolled in the UFC by HW fighters none of the Pride fanatics gave any respect too..
 
I've been more hardcore about boxing and been following MMA since 2010 and in my opinion GSP is the greatest MMA fighter I've seen however I've never understood why Fedor is considered to be GOAT by so many. Looking at his resume... it doesn't look that impressive, he hasn't got a single win over an elite fighter.

Cro Cop arguably his best win... he got absolute destroyed in the UFC, true that he went to the UFC when he was 32 but fighters in the higher weights are usually able to maintain their prime into 36-37. Cro Cop who got beat by Mark Hunt who was completely average in the UFC as well.

Big Nog... same thing, joined the UFC at the age of 30/31... definition of prime age and also got dismantled by everyone.

Fedor beat... what it seems like to me, mostly average fighters, none of them have any distinct achievements and fought when MMA was still fresh and very underdeveloped.

Please I'd love to be educated as to why.

It's cool you ask to be educated but you could have avoided making ridiculously noob statements like "Hunt was completely average in the UFC" or saying CroCop or Nogueira were somehow in their primes when they had been fighting in the elite since the 90s.

You also need to be educated between the major differences between fighting in the ring and in the cage
 
There won't be a clear GOAT no matter what pretty much. Too much opinion. But it's a little odd to not even be able to understand why someone would think he is. CroCop, Nog, Arlovski, Hunt, Coleman, Sylvia, and others aren't elite wins? Not all of them may have been in their primes, but any don't they contribute to his status? It's a little ignorant to say he has no elite wins.
 
At the time fedor was the best HW on the planet and he achieved this without getting advantages from peds cutting weight, greasegate or any other controversy that follows most fighters in goat contention.

Yes you can trash some of his opponents as you can with any fighter, but to dismiss his status just because his bigger wins struggled later in their careers is ridiculous.

You also have to remember that pride fighters fought far more regularly than in most other organisations and certainly more than the modern crop of fighters which could greatly affect when they were in their "prime"

Personally I don't have a singular goat, just several top fighters who are clearly in contention for it which can change daily but Fedor is clearly up there.
 
Part of the reason for Fedor's GOAT status in the eyes of Sherdoggers is their opinion that Pride was the best MMA org that ever existed.
 
That to me is the biggest argument against Fedor because people had put Fedor on such a pedestal they thought that CC who gave him a competitive fight would roll over the UFC HW's.. I mean why not because Fedor is the GOAT Right? Well turns out CC got rolled in the UFC by HW fighters none of the Pride fanatics gave any respect too..
Umm, let's not forget that CC DID beat a UFC heavyweight (Eddi Sanchez or some other nobody) and then got DECAPITATED by Gonzaga. Let's not pretend that getting fucking murdered by your own signature kick, and tearing your ACL in the process, while 33 or so already, didn't play a big part in CC's performance in the UFC.
 
He's in the goat Convo for heavyweight for sure. He literally beat so many UFC champs. Randleman, Coleman, Sylvia, Arlovski and still other impressive names like Cro Cop (prime). You talk about Big Nog, but he had a better run in pride than in the UFC and still won a belt in the UFC. No offence, but i doubt you know much about MMA in the past
 
Umm, let's not forget that CC DID beat a UFC heavyweight (Eddi Sanchez or some other nobody) and then got DECAPITATED by Gonzaga. Let's not pretend that getting fucking murdered by your own signature kick, and tearing your ACL in the process, while 33 or so already, didn't play a big part in CC's performance in the UFC.

Yeah he got whooped by Gonzaga and Kongo.. If I said that to any of the Pride fandom in 2007 they laugh in my face..
 
Here's an exhaustive list of all HWs who have gone 10 years without a loss:

1. Fedor
2. N/A
3. N/A

No matter how much you try to spin things and make his opponents look bad, that simply isn't the truth. Cro Cop was a legit killing machine in his prime. And Nog was so dangerous on the mat that nobody wanted to take him there - even from his back he was dangerous. But Fedor won a mostly striking battle with Cro Cop and a mostly grappling battle (twice) with Nog.

For the record, I think GSP is GOAT. But I can recognize Fedor's greatness as well, and you have to be a pretty big idiot to deny that he's even in contention
 
he hasn't got a single win over an elite fighter.

I don't get it...It seems most mma fans can't just have a decent conversation/debate, they have to go full retard one way or the other. We got the Fedor is goat no questions asked fans and the "he hasn't beaten a single elite fighter" fans on the complete other side. No one can just say normal shit, you gotta go stupid over the top around here to make your point I guess but it just makes people look stupid. For one, if you weren't watching then and just studying fight finder you should probably just be quiet cause you don't know any of the fighters obviously. All these mma "fans" that have most of their knowledge from fight finder are pathetic. I'm sure you think Sakuraba is a totally overrated bum too.
 
You know Big Nog came to the ufc and won the belt, right ?

Also, as this sport evolves, looking back historically and comparing past opponents to current fighters is fraught with too many variables, biases etc Silva's middleweight reign looks less impressive by the year with the animals out there at mw now, but like Fedor, he was the man for a fucking decade.

Why Fedor is in the goat conversation for me:
-Fought the majority of his opponents at their strengths - many examples of this but my favourite has to be against an opponent most would label 'a can' - Ogawa was an Olympic Silver medalist Judoka, i.e he clinches and throws you, its highly likely your fucked. Fedor reversed Ogawas throw, landed in mount and transitioned to armbar - out judo'd an elite judoka.
-Fought an entertaining style whether on the feet or the mat.
-His speed was ridiculous (watch the cro cop fight from the ref cam on youtube, it's insane) as was his athleticism - Big Nog had him in full mount and he reversed him by doing a fucking sit up.
-Even when getting his shit pushed in he took it like a champ, that second round against bigfoot, a lot hw's would have quit from taking that mauling (off someone 50lb heavier no less) , who was the first to stand up and walk back to their corner after the round was over ? Fedor.
-Undefeated at hw for a decade
 
I've been more hardcore about boxing and been following MMA since 2010 and in my opinion GSP is the greatest MMA fighter I've seen however I've never understood why Fedor is considered to be GOAT by so many. Looking at his resume... it doesn't look that impressive, he hasn't got a single win over an elite fighter.

Cro Cop arguably his best win... he got absolute destroyed in the UFC, true that he went to the UFC when he was 32 but fighters in the higher weights are usually able to maintain their prime into 36-37. Cro Cop who got beat by Mark Hunt who was completely average in the UFC as well.

Big Nog... same thing, joined the UFC at the age of 30/31... definition of prime age and also got dismantled by everyone.

Fedor beat... what it seems like to me, mostly average fighters, none of them have any distinct achievements and fought when MMA was still fresh and very underdeveloped.

Please I'd love to be educated as to why.
Short and to the point answer? His resume looked extremely impressive back in 2007 but didn’t age well at all. Back then, CroCop was considered an amazing fighter who couldn’t be stopped by anyone other than Fedor. Never mind the fact that he got scratched by Randleman...but I digress.
 
I've been more hardcore about boxing and been following MMA since 2010 and in my opinion GSP is the greatest MMA fighter I've seen however I've never understood why Fedor is considered to be GOAT by so many. Looking at his resume... it doesn't look that impressive, he hasn't got a single win over an elite fighter.

Cro Cop arguably his best win... he got absolute destroyed in the UFC, true that he went to the UFC when he was 32 but fighters in the higher weights are usually able to maintain their prime into 36-37. Cro Cop who got beat by Mark Hunt who was completely average in the UFC as well.

Big Nog... same thing, joined the UFC at the age of 30/31... definition of prime age and also got dismantled by everyone.

Fedor beat... what it seems like to me, mostly average fighters, none of them have any distinct achievements and fought when MMA was still fresh and very underdeveloped.

Please I'd love to be educated as to why.

He was the best of his day. That's typically what people mean by GOAT. Why is Babe Ruth considered one of the baseball GOAT's? Why is Jesse Owens (his times are slow by today's standards) one of the sprinting GOAT's? Why is Mark Spitz (again, times slow compared to today) considered one of the swimming GOAT's?

And its not just in sport. The Roman Legions would be wiped out by even a small modern army, but they are considered one of the GOAT armies. Galileo's knowledge of physics is less than any modern high school science student, but he's considered one of the physics and science GOAT's.

GOAT is almost always compared in terms of how you did against the best of your day. Fedor was the best of his day at HW (unless you think the UFC, whose HW champs were Arlovski and Tim Sylvia, had better HW's than him), and for many people HW is the most prestigious weight division, since they'd still be champs even if there were no weight divisions (MMA, like boxing, wrestling, judo, and BJJ started without weight divisions, they're pretty artificial).

The age thing is always interesting. On Sherdog people seem to think there's a standard age for when someone is at their peak. That is, they think everyone ages at the same rate. That's pretty odd, even when you ignore things like injuries and wear and tear from accumulation of fights (especially training, since, in MMA most wear and tear comes from training rather than actual fights). You need only go to an old folks home to see 90 year olds who are in better shape than some 60 year olds. Or talk to a doctor, who will tell you of people who die of natural causes at the age of 30, and other people who live well into their 100's -- everyone aging at the same rate is simply false. How so many Sherdoggers don't get this I don't know, its one of the most obvious things about humans -- we age very differently.
 
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Jones is a certified steroid cheat, who should have two losses vs Santos and Reyes and always fought shorter guys with the exception of Gus who unsurprisingly gave him the most trouble and Reyes + Santos who are similar height to him.
GSP has wins over BJ Penn 2x, Matt Huges 2x, Jake Shields who is very underrated, Bisping after 4 years out, Nick Diaz, prime Condit... nobody has collected better scalps in MMA history.
You did read my " muddied waters" concerning Jones ?

As far as those scalps - LMFAO . He is one of the goats. Hes just not thee goat.
Penn 1 couldve went either way. Penn 2 was easy money as penn learned, size wise, things changed quite a bit in the world of mma. Hughes was complacent ( not willing to evolve)and fell off the map.....quick.Bisping - fuckingplease. .cherry picking at its finest. A four year off the shelf welter favored to beat 185 champ ( and I use that word lightly or a flat out punchline in bispings case).
When was the last time Diaz won a fight ?
Oh yeah- against a half his size bj penn who in getting beat up still marked up " the great Nick Diaz " something good.
He finally did have some balls in standing with prime condit( as his scar tissue did give way but a good performance).

What about his 25 minute smotherfests over guys he was heavily favored to beat ( also half the fights [ or more] that u mentioned) that went to the cards
GTFO.
 
It's cool you ask to be educated but you could have avoided making ridiculously noob statements like "Hunt was completely average in the UFC" or saying CroCop or Nogueira were somehow in their primes when they had been fighting in the elite since the 90s.

You also need to be educated between the major differences between fighting in the ring and in the cage
Hunt's record is 8-14 in his last 22 fights, explain to me how he's considered so good.
 
Why do threads like this keep popping up? So most of if not all fighters totally respect him as one of the best ever, any MMA analysts with a brain rates him, at the time he was clearly the number one heavyweight in the world in the number one org but random sherdogger doesn’t rate him.

You’re entitled to your opinion but you’re wrong. He was that good, every other fan/fighter/ analyst with a brain disagrees with you.
 
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