That being said Nitrogen asphyxiation is indeed the most painless method i would think of, plenty of people die every year in grain silos because of it.
Maybe the feeling of being unable to breathe isn't 'pain' but it is very unpleasant.
Edit: Upon reflection the feeling of 'being unable to breathe' is supposed to be the CO2 building up, which doesn't happen if you breathe nitrogen, you are supposed to just not get oxygen and peacefully lose consciousness. But all the thrashing around and eyes rolling back in the head etc., there seems to be doubt whether Smith was conscious or not, and for how long.
I oppose the death penalty simply because the State shouldn't be given the green go to execute citizens under custody.
But if it has to exist, use the fucking gallows or a garrote, why torture prisoner with Looney Tunes level contraptions?
That being said Nitrogen asphyxiation is indeed the most painless method i would think of, plenty of people die every year in grain silos because of it.
It goes against the "natural" part of my brain that says monsters who kill others for their own pleasure should certainly be put down. But it's easier to just leave them locked in prison until they did of old age. They can't hurt anyone else, who isn't someone who's also a violent felon so... meh. And if they do do that in prison they get thrown in the hole.
And with the current system of so many appeals, life in prison is actually cheaper than executing them. And what's the point of executing someone 30 years after they were sentenced to death? It doesn't feel like finishing the justice anymore. It feels more like fulfilling an obligation of justice that had already failed by the sentence not being carried out in a timely fashion.
If there was a case of clearly guilty guy (caught red handed like a mass shooter who surrenders, not even something where there's damming evidence against a killer. We've seen too many get overturned) and the option was just to put a bullet in their head the day of the guilty verdict? Then I'd probably say go for it. But I'm against the American execution system as it stands now and rather than a hell of a fight to change it the other direction, just have life with no parole be the sentence.
That’s kind of my point. I think it, when 100% overwhelmingly guilty of a heinous crime(children, mass shooting, torture) the execution should be basically immediate and cheap. I will spring for the rope and the wood to make some gallows.
The appeals system is way too expensive and I believe it should be limited to one. I believe there should be a review board that looks at the evidence and determines if there is any chance they could have a wrongful conviction. If if there is no question, the sentence is carried out. Like you and I both said, mass shooter should equal a quick death, but we have become so soft. “What if they were abused/mental illness?” Of course everyone is going to claim such.
And I disagree with your notion about “so what, they’re all violent felons.” Derek chauvin is a fucking piece of shit, but he accidentally killed a violent piece of shit, and got way over sentenced, but someone stabbed him for clout and will just go on serving their already life sentence.
Maybe the feeling of being unable to breathe isn't 'pain' but it is very unpleasant.
Edit: Upon reflection the feeling of 'being unable to breathe' is supposed to be the CO2 building up, which doesn't happen if you breathe nitrogen, you are supposed to just not get oxygen and peacefully lose consciousness. But all the thrashing around and eyes rolling back in the head etc., there seems to be doubt whether Smith was conscious or not, and for how long.
Kenneth Eugene Smith was shaking, writhing, and thrashing up and down on the gurney for two whole minutes after the nitrogen gas started filling up his mask.
www.dailymail.co.uk
Guards ended Smith’s phone call with his wife at 7:57 p.m. and immediately placed him in handcuffs and leg irons, took him to the execution chamber, and strapped him to the gurney.
Two minutes later, the Eleventh Circuit issued a stay, which Smith’s lawyers provided to ADOC at 8:02 p.m. ADOC replied, “Noted,” but left Smith strapped to the gurney until midnight — a total of about four hours. During that time, ADOC never informed Smith of the stay or the status of any other legal proceedings and did not permit him to speak with his counsel. Smith, the complaint alleges, believed his execution was imminent.
At 10 p.m., ADOC’s IV team entered the execution chamber and began to attempt to set an IV line. Around the same time, the U.S. Supreme Court lifted the Eleventh Circuit’s stay. It is unclear from the complaint whether the IV team began jabbing Smith’s arms and hands with needles before or after the stay was lifted. At one point in the process, Smith informed an execution team member that executioners were painfully inserting the needle in his muscle. According to the complaint, the team member responded, “No I’m not.”
The execution team then adjusted the gurney to place Smith into an inverted crucifixion position, then left the room for several minutes. Upon their return, they injected Smith with an unknown substance, which Smith’s counsel believe to be “some sort of sedative and/or anesthetic.” Smith “specifically objected to this injection,” the complaint says, as the State “had been ordered not to use ‘intramuscular sedation’ during his execution.”
Subsequently, an individual of “unknown medical credentials … started repeatedly stabbing [Smith’s] collarbone area with a large needle” in an attempt to begin placing a central line IV, and a prison official “grabbed and held [Smith’s] head away from the area where the needle was being inserted.” Smith describes sharp and intense pain, “as though he were being ‘stabbed’ in the chest” as the individual “repeatedly jabbed him … underneath his collarbone.” Unbeknownst to Smith, around 11:20 pm, “unverified reports that the execution may have been called off started circulating.”
Smith’s lawyers emailed state officials for confirmation that the execution had been called off, but did not receive a response. Sometime before midnight, the execution team told Smith “it’s over with.” When guards came to remove him from the execution chamber, Smith was trembling, sweating, hyperventilating, dizzy, and could not lift his own arms to be handcuffed or walk unassisted.
Smith recalled being in 'great pain' because those tasked with injecting the lethal drugs - midazolam hydrochloride, rocuronium bromide and potassium chloride - were stabbing his muscle rather than finding a vein.
Smith has since said that the ceaseless jabs became so ridiculous they turned into farce, especially when one of the executioners eventually asked Smith to squeeze his hand to make the vein stand out better - a request Smith declined.
He was left for several minutes before the IV returned with an even larger needle in an attempt to attach a so-called central line (or central venous catheter) which is much longer than a regular intravenous line and goes all the way up to a vein near or inside the heart.
Smith reported that this pain became so excruciating after multiple attempts to use the larger needle successfully that he was shaking and wet himself.
Kenneth Eugene Smith was shaking, writhing, and thrashing up and down on the gurney for two whole minutes after the nitrogen gas started filling up his mask.
www.dailymail.co.uk
Alabama had predicted the nitrogen gas would cause unconsciousness within seconds and death within minutes.
However, those who watched the execution at the Holman Correctional Facility in Atmore, Alabama have said it was anything but simple.
Witnesses said Smith appeared to shake and convulse at the start, pulled against his restraints, and breathed for up to ten minutes before finally falling unconscious.
All told, the execution took about 22 minutes from the time between the opening and closing of the curtains to the viewing room - much longer than expected.
In theory, the method involved replacing the air breathed by the inmate with 100% nitrogen. Those who support the method say the process should be painless, pointing to nitrogen's role in suicides or deadly industrial accidents.
However, witnesses said afterwards that it too much longer for Smith to fall unconscious than Alabama officials had said. He pulled against his restraints, and appeared to shake and convulse, as the gas filled his system.
At one point as the killer tore against his restraints, his wife Deanna, wearing a T-shirt reading 'Never Alone', desperately cried out for him from the witness box.
Marty Roney wrote in his report that Smith convulsed for four minutes. 'He appeared to be fully conscious when the gas began to flow,' he said.
Between 7.57pm and 8.01pm, 'Smith writhed and convulsed on the gurney,' he wrote.
'He took deep breaths, his body shaking violently with his eyes rolling in the back of his head,' his account continued. 'Smith clenched his fists, his legs shook … He seemed to be gasping for air. The gurney shook several times.'
Hood, who continued to bless him throughout the execution while Smith struggled, was stood 15 feet away and 'made the sign of the cross several times,' Roney said.
As the gurney shook several times during the first four minutes, 'Hood removed his eyeglasses and wiped away tears,' Roney added.
Hood said afterwards that the execution was the 'worst thing' he had ever seen, claiming prison officials gasped in shock as Smith died slower than expected.
'When they turned the nitrogen on, he began to convulse, he popped up on the gurney over and over again, he shook the whole gurney,' Hood said.
He said prison officials in the room 'were visibly surprised at how bad this thing went'. He added: 'What we saw was minutes of someone struggling for their life.'
Either saliva or a tear could be seen on the inside of the mask, he wrote, while a female witness for Smith - presumed to be his wife - was heard sobbing.
Hood said he prayed for the murderer and told him that he 'loved him and he wasn't alone', and broke down as he recounted the 'horror show' of Smith's final moments.
'I could see the corrections officers, I think they were very surprised that this didn't go smoothly - one of the state officials in the room was so nervous she was tap dancing,' he continued.
'(Smith) kept breathing for what could possibly be up to nine minutes, ten minutes, unbelievable evil was unleashed tonight in Alabama... that was torture.'
Hood said he has witnessed five executions before, and after seeing Smith's agony, he felt that 'lethal injection is preferable every single day.'
Asked about Smith's shaking and convulsing on the gurney, Alabama corrections Commissioner John Q. Hamm said they appeared to be involuntary movements.
[He] said: 'It appeared Smith was holding his breath as long as he could. So nothing was out of the ordinary for what we were expecting.'
Hamm said of Smith's movements on the gurney: 'That was all expected and was in the side effects that we’ve seen or researched on nitrogen hypoxia.'
Basically, I don’t care that much about someone who violently and purposely murdered another person. 8th amendment aside, inserting a needle to inject toxins and an anesthetic to numb and relax him(something he didn’t provide his victim) is not cruel and unusual punishment and are you fucking kidding me? “Ouch! He’s inserting that needle too fucking hard!!” He butchered a woman for money. I would rather see the death penalty used quickly and for someone that tortures or kills children.
Edit: Upon reflection the feeling of 'being unable to breathe' is supposed to be the CO2 building up, which doesn't happen if you breathe nitrogen, you are supposed to just not get oxygen and peacefully lose consciousness. But all the thrashing around and eyes rolling back in the head etc., there seems to be doubt whether Smith was conscious or not, and for how long.
Basically, I don’t care that much about someone who violently and purposely murdered another person. 8th amendment aside, inserting a needle to inject toxins and an anesthetic to numb and relax him(something he didn’t provide his victim) is not cruel and unusual punishment and are you fucking kidding me? “Ouch! He’s inserting that needle too fucking hard!!” He butchered a woman for money. I would rather see the death penalty used quickly and for someone that tortures or kills children.
They are given badly applied muscle relaxants so that he chokes to death while being unable to move, at this point just give him fentanyl and let him overdose.
I support the death penalty, as some people are simply irredeemable. I understand that it’s a complex issues, but in cases of mass shootings, serial killers etc I think that it is justified. Of course there will always be concerns regarding wrongful convictions, but when there is zero doubt as to the culpability of the offender then I’m in favour.
Not sure what the right answer is as far as methods go, but I would also shorten the process so that people don’t spend decades on death row. Give a priority for appeals of convictions with the death penalty attached, and as soon as appeals have run out carry out the sentence.
In Canada, capital punishment was abolished in 1976, with the exception that members of the armed forces could still be executed for treason, desertion, cowardice, spying for the enemy. Capital punishment was completely removed from the National Defence Act in 1998.
Support for capital punishment had been fairly stagnant but has risen in recent years. A 2023 survey found that 54% of Canadians support a return of the death penalty for murderers. It will be interesting to see if that eventually becomes an election issue if the numbers keep rising.
They only botched it because we are such pussies that we try to put them gently to bed, read them a story, and hold their hand as they pass. I bet this fucking creep went more peacefully than my father, a doctor his whole life. He died holding my mom’s and my hand and it was not easy. My dad saved lives, this fuck took them and we are concerned about his “comfort?” Fuck him. My point is that you rarely botch a hanging, guillotine, or firing squad.
We are still finding death row inmates innocent to this day, can't see how someone with a moral compass would support state sanctioned murder of innocents. The justice system is imperfect.
They are given badly applied muscle relaxants so that he chokes to death while being unable to move, at this point just give him fentanyl and let him overdose.
Fentanyl would be too much fun. Firing squad is quick and cheap and rarely botched. If we weren’t such pussies about their comfort, we would have less bad executions
We are still finding death row inmates innocent to this day, can't see how someone with a moral compass would support state sanctioned murder of innocents. The justice system is imperfect.
Hence, my assertion that it should be airtight cases that involve torture, children, or mass shootings where there is no viable defense. It should be very quick. I would not be opposed to it being the next day after sentence is passed in such cases-on video, caught in the act, etc
Why do you consider it "woke" for a company to dictate whether or not something they produce is used in lethal injection or not? Seems like a sound business decision if you didn't intend for that chemical to be used in executions in the first place.
On the subject of executions in general I'm against the death penalty.
Are there some people that deserve it? Absolutely, but allowing the state to execute people means that there is a 100% certainty that people innocent of the crimes they've been convicted of will be executed in that system.
And there is nothing worse that a government can do to someone than that. So if the trade off is that some murderers have to spend the remainder of their days in a maximum security prison, so be it.
I don’t see why defense contractors are not rushing to manufacture these chemicals. But, I believe it is either woke or extremely religious companies that make the determination to not let their product be used in humans executions-thus forcing states to experiment. Again, clear, incontrovertible cases should be a bullet after sentence
I would stab someone for a good beer cheese soup right now. Oh shit, I am probably going to end up convicted of murder and spend sixteen years in prison before they botch my execution using saline solution because all other methods were deemed too cruel
I would stab someone for a good beer cheese soup right now. Oh shit, I am probably going to end up convicted of murder and spend sixteen years in prison before they botch my execution using saline solution because all other methods were deemed too cruel
Death penalty should exist.. and it should always be the quickest and least expensive option available. There are many options that would do this job much quicker, cheaper and more pain-free than some bull shit gas concoction.
I oppose the death penalty simply because the State shouldn't be given the green go to execute citizens under custody.
But if it has to exist, use the fucking gallows or a garrote, why torture prisoner with Looney Tunes level contraptions?
That being said Nitrogen asphyxiation is indeed the most painless method i would think of, plenty of people die every year in grain silos because of it.
I was a little confused as to why Nitrogen was chosen.
I remember many years ago that a doctor from Australia (similar to Dr. Krevorkian if you remember that name) who was a big proponent of rights to die for elderly people or people with terminal illnesses. The method he suggested was called 'the exit bag', which was simply a plastic bag that you sealed over your head, and had a small canister of Helium gas flowing in to it. Helium can be obtained almost anywhere and since it displaces oxygen, you pass out within seconds and eventually succumb to death a few minutes later.
It seems like with the Nitrogen in the OP, it caused some 'death rattles'. I've heard that about carbon monoxide poisoning - in a lot of cases people just pass out, not even knowing what happened to them (assuming they were removed from the CO gas). Yet in other cases, it is said that when you are exposed to lethal doses of CO, the body instinctively screams out for oxygen and the will to live automatically kicks in (such as people who used to poison themselves in cars, breathing in the CO, and despite the fact they wanted to die, had a panic response and exited the vehicle).
Another way that doctor proposed people could off themselves, without the need for Helium or regulators and plastic bags, was something all of us MMA fans are intimately familiar with - compression of the carotid artery. It takes very little pressure to block the carotid in your neck, and when people pass out from a chokehold, it's simply a preceding stage of death - if the chokehold is continued after the guy passes out, he will die in a few minutes.
For that reason, the Doctor spoke of a case where an elderly woman was living in a nursing home and was suffering terribly - she didn't have access to any tools or implements to do the deed peacefully. Instead, she took one of her nylon panties and created a knot in it. She placed the knot over her carotid artery, then used a spoon to twist the nylon as a tourniquet. Recognizing that once she passed out the spoon would loosen (and she would not in fact die) she turned the spoon from the front where, once she lost consciousness, it would get caught on her chin and the pressure cuttings off the blood supply to the brain would remain (ie, killing her, which it did).
Violence/Genocide: Do not condone violence or genocide on a person or group of people. You are free to attack a person or groups ideas but you are crossing the line when calling for violence. This will be heavily enforced in threads with breaking news involving victims.
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
