Akido or Judo

[nni]

way to not extrapolate

So is there anything useful? Anything that I can't obtain from taking BJJ or Judo? That's all I want to know.

Look, I think if you are doing Judo AND BJJ you don't need Aikido at all. I don't really know enough of bjj or judo to answer that question. Aikido has no ground game, with the exception of the pin. Most of the techniques involve throws or joint manipulation, especially wrist and shoulder. You can read it up for yourself and see if there are any techniques you are not familiar with, since you already practice judo and bjj.

 

[Jinzumkei]

Look, I think if you are doing Judo AND BJJ you don't need Aikido at all. I don't really know enough of bjj or judo to answer that question. Aikido has no ground game, with the exception of the pin. Most of the techniques involve throws or joint manipulation, especially wrist and shoulder. You can read it up for yourself and see if there are any techniques you are not familiar with, since you already practice judo and bjj.

My comment was geared more towards the people who said one should train Judo/BJJ AND aikido. For the record, I've read up on aikido and haven't found anything I couldn't get from BJJ/Judo. I was hoping to hear from an aikido practioner since there are so many staunch defenders of it for grappling.

 

[Waldorf]

way to not extrapolate

So is there anything useful? Anything that I can't obtain from taking BJJ or Judo? That's all I want to know.

I did Aikido for a while and have done BJJ for a little over 3 years, and I don't think you will pickup up much from Aikido in terms of improving your BJJ game. Maybe focus on relaxing and flowing in technique from that angle might "speak to you" more and would carry over, but I think focusing on those attributes from within your BJJ will go further.

A lot of people who enjoy are really into Japanese culture, like the presevation of an art aspect, like the breakfalls, enjoy the "martial" aspect of the movment and maybe like that it is less intense than an alive martial art, but more intense than say tai chi. If your looking for those things it is great. If you are looking for things to help you fight than I think you will do better with BJJ and/or Judo.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Just for all you guys who arn't paying attention. Not all Aikido is the same. Check out these videos. This is what Aikido looks like when Uke doesn't throw themselves. It works, just not as pretty.

Here is some Aikido practice, some at the end vs. a guy punching with boxing gloves. Not just guys running full speed with their arms out!


Here is Aikido competition!


Check out Tomiki and Shodokan videos on youtube. I think it is actually really an interesting style.

some nice throws but, you gotta be shitting me??? that is far from a live sparring, I really dont know the rules, but what the hell is the stick for?

 

[GingerNinja]

some nice throws but, you gotta be shitting me??? that is far from a live sparring, I really dont know the rules, but what the hell is the stick for?

without it, it just turns into sloppy Judo. and define sparring? trying to beat your opponent while not allowing them to score points on you sound about right to you?

You take it in turns to attack. 1.30 each, Attackers score points for landing strikes and for any counter throws (defender must have 2 hands on the attacker to allow for a counter throw... once again so it doesn't just turn into sloppy judo)
Defender scores points, 1,2,4
1, for knocking off balance,
2, for landing a technique but if its a bit messy
4, good landed technique

and there's the fouls etc no Gi grabbing, no grabbing the Tanto (aka the stick) no strikes at the head, and before anyone dives in with.. self defence! wouldn't work in a cage! and all that shit... it's a competition, based on these rules, it's not trying to be something it's not.
I don't take the Sport for self defence (although admittedly some things would be useful) I take it for the sporting aspect, and once I've gained by Black belt I'll possibly branch to Judo too. But for now, I like what I do, It has competition, the community is awesome, everyone is really friendly at comps and seminars.

and lol, at 1.20 in the vid the old "shit he's not off balance I'll just keep shoving his head until eventually i get something."

 

[BJJ_Rage]

without it, it just turns into sloppy Judo. and define sparring? trying to beat your opponent while not allowing them to score points on you sound about right to you?

You take it in turns to attack. 1.30 each, Attackers score points for landing strikes and for any counter throws (defender must have 2 hands on the attacker to allow for a counter throw... once again so it doesn't just turn into sloppy judo)
Defender scores points, 1,2,4
1, for knocking off balance,
2, for landing a technique but if its a bit messy
4, good landed technique

and there's the fouls etc no Gi grabbing, no grabbing the Tanto (aka the stick) no strikes at the head, and before anyone dives in with.. self defence! wouldn't work in a cage! and all that shit... it's a competition, based on these rules, it's not trying to be something it's not.
I don't take the Sport for self defence (although admittedly some things would be useful) I take it for the sporting aspect, and once I've gained by Black belt I'll possibly branch to Judo too. But for now, I like what I do, It has competition, the community is awesome, everyone is really friendly at comps and seminars.

and lol, at 1.20 in the vid the old "shit he's not off balance I'll just keep shoving his head until eventually i get something."

then I totally agree with you, if you are taking it for the sport, the comunity etc etc and not for self defense, then more power to you.....

 

[boboplata***]

Here is some Aikido practice, some at the end vs. a guy punching with boxing gloves. Not just guys running full speed with their arms out!

yeah, but the guy with the gloves throws; to quote the great wallid ismail "***got punches".

 

[ex0]

Again, you're being really general. I wanted to know specific techniques because everything you listed is taught in BJJ.

No that's not my question at all, because I'm a BJJ guy and I do study judo and wrestling. But I don't study jj or aikido because I don't see any benefit from those arts, so I wanted to ask specifically what can I learn from those that I can't get from BJJ. For example is there a choke or armlock that doesnt exist in BJJ that exists in Aikido?

I don't know BJJ or Aikido in depth enough to really comment, but i'm pretty sure aikido has some techniques that aren't taught in your BJJ class. Such as the focus on standup grappling and throws/takedowns. Unless you are saying that BJJ does as much standup grappling and takedowns as Aikido? You should also get a better feel for flowing and controlling/redirecting force during standup grappling. That's already plenty reason to learn Aikido and add it to your BJJ(which i consider just ground, correct me if i'm wrong and they teach standup grappling/wrestling/takedowns). I added some concepts(flowing/redirecting force) to my wrestling/JJ/WC game, and it works for me. Only you decide whether you can use it or not or whether it's a waste of your time.

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

I don't know BJJ or Aikido in depth enough to really comment, but i'm pretty sure aikido has some techniques that aren't taught in your BJJ class. Such as the focus on standup grappling and throws/takedowns. Unless you are saying that BJJ does as much standup grappling and takedowns as Aikido? You should also get a better feel for flowing during standup grappling. That's already plenty reason to learn Aikido and add it to your BJJ(which i consider just ground, correct me if i'm wrong and they teach standup grappling/wrestling/takedowns)

BJJ does teach standup grappling/wrestling/takedowns. Always has (well, wrestling was incorporated in the 70's). All matches start on the feet, and where I train we almost always start from the feet as well.

 

[ex0]

BJJ does teach standup grappling/wrestling/takedowns. Always has (well, wrestling was incorporated in the 70's). All matches start on the feet, and where I train we almost always start from the feet as well.

Yeah, i'm not knowledgable enough to comment really. But i learnt WC/JJ/Aikido/Wrestling first, and to me, i don't really see any need to study BJJ, because the same principles apply, except it's on the ground and less room.

Basically like i said, i am a JKD guy, and once you have an understanding of movement, of anatomy(how to hyperextend joints etc), positioning, it's all the same in any style or any place you fight. Just need to know the concepts and theory. The rest are just little tips and tricks you'll pick up. The overwhelming concepts stay the same overall. It's like saying, if wrestling was incorporated into bjj in the 70's, then what's the point of learning wrestling? Sounds stupid when i put it like that right? I can say the same for JKD. Why learn anything else when JKD teaches everything?

It's basically about what those styles focus on, and in general that's what you get out of it. They might have standup, but the focus isn't on that.

 

[Jinzumkei]

I don't know BJJ or Aikido in depth enough to really comment, but i'm pretty sure aikido has some techniques that aren't taught in your BJJ class. Such as the focus on standup grappling and throws/takedowns. Unless you are saying that BJJ does as much standup grappling and takedowns as Aikido? You should also get a better feel for flowing and controlling/redirecting force during standup grappling. That's already plenty reason to learn Aikido and add it to your BJJ(which i consider just ground, correct me if i'm wrong and they teach standup grappling/wrestling/takedowns). I added some concepts(flowing/redirecting force) to my wrestling/JJ/WC game, and it works for me. Only you decide whether you can use it or not or whether it's a waste of your time.

So you're not really knowledgeable about Aikido but you are a proponent of learning Aikido on top of BJJ? That doesnt make sense. I'm sure there are techniques taught in Aikido that are not taught in BJJ but I question as do others question their effectiveness in grappling (standup or ground).

BJJ does teach standup grappling (although every school is different about the how much). My instructor is also a blackbelt in Judo (over 20 years) so he teaches Judo throws as well. He also teaches BJJ seminars and exchanges knowledge with other martial arts masters. My instructor will be the first one to defend a TMA if he knows it works yet he has said he's never gotten anything from Aikido that he can't get from BJJ or Judo.

"You should also get a better feel for flowing and controlling/redirecting force during standup grappling" - I dont think that's a particularly accurate statement either. Not only that but just about all of BJJ is about "controlling/redirecting force", we just don't make a huge deal of it, we just do it everyday when we train.

 

[Steeltwo]

BJJ does teach standup grappling/wrestling/takedowns. Always has (well, wrestling was incorporated in the 70's). All matches start on the feet, and where I train we almost always start from the feet as well.

My experience is limited. But i've been to 4 different BJJ schools.

Only 1 of them taught takedowns at all.
And the only reason it did, was because I was there to teach them.(judo)

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

My experience is limited. But i've been to 4 different BJJ schools.

Only 1 of them taught takedowns at all.
And the only reason it did, was because I was there to teach them.(judo)

That's crazy, and stupid of them. Must have been low quality schools.

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

Why learn anything else when JKD teaches everything?

Because each individual art, when trained specifically, will teach greater technical sophistication. I train BJJ, but if I wanted to learn to wrestle I wouldn't go to a bjj school, even though wrestling is a part of what's commonly taught at a bjj school. My instructor started as a JKD practitioner, but he didn't solely train under that one instructor. He trained there fore JKD, muay thai, savate, judo, and filipino martial arts. He sought out separate training for bjj (now a black belt), boxing, and wrestling. There is a value in training several individual arts under specialists, rather than being a generalist.

 

[Jinzumkei]

...Basically like i said, i am a JKD guy, and once you have an understanding of movement, of anatomy(how to hyperextend joints etc), positioning, it's all the same in any style or any place you fight. Just need to know the concepts and theory. The rest are just little tips and tricks you'll pick up...

If by tips and tricks you mean DETAILS. It's the little details that separate the great from some guy who just looking at pictures.

btw, how to hyperextend a joint is like the last 1% of a submission. The positioning is the rest of the 99% and you're dreaming if you think that's all the same with any style or place.

 

[JerkWeed]

I'm just upset nobody has mentioned Hapkido.

 

[darkgojira]

My comment was geared more towards the people who said one should train Judo/BJJ AND aikido. For the record, I've read up on aikido and haven't found anything I couldn't get from BJJ/Judo. I was hoping to hear from an aikido practioner since there are so many staunch defenders of it for grappling.

I only did aikido for two years before i stopped at green belt so Im not an BB or expert in anyway. But in terms of techniques, there are several that are completely different from judo/bjj. most of the takedowns are a form of shoulder lock that turns into a throw. example a kimura type lock that turns into a throw ala Karo Parisyan, but without rolling back. another is an americana that also turns into a throw. Others are wrist locks that turn into throws. I believe i remember a few trips as well. the ground work involves shoulder pins that I haven't seen in bjj or judo.

As far as needing to train BJJ/Judo AND Aikido, you don't have to. But if you want to train Aikido I would highly recommend taking BJJ or Judo to get the sparring aspect and have a place to practice the aikido techniques in a real time setting. Though some techniques aren't allowed in judo. Don't know the rules in BJJ too much.

In conclusion I wouldn't take it to enter ADCC, but I would to learn a few more techniques I wouldn't get in BJJ/Judo/Catch wrestling. Hope that clarifies.

 

[Higher Learning]

man these threads bring out so many delusional fruitcakes...

ex0, hav eyou ever grappled before? i mean legitimately against a ranked bjj guy?

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Yeah, i'm not knowledgable enough to comment really. But i learnt WC/JJ/Aikido/Wrestling first, and to me, i don't really see any need to study BJJ, because the same principles apply, except it's on the ground and less room.

Basically like i said, i am a JKD guy, and once you have an understanding of movement, of anatomy(how to hyperextend joints etc), positioning, it's all the same in any style or any place you fight. Just need to know the concepts and theory. The rest are just little tips and tricks you'll pick up. The overwhelming concepts stay the same overall. It's like saying, if wrestling was incorporated into bjj in the 70's, then what's the point of learning wrestling? Sounds stupid when i put it like that right? I can say the same for JKD. Why learn anything else when JKD teaches everything?

It's basically about what those styles focus on, and in general that's what you get out of it. They might have standup, but the focus isn't on that.

this is got to be one of the worst post I've seen...

 

[ex0]

So you're not really knowledgeable about Aikido but you are a proponent of learning Aikido on top of BJJ? That doesnt make sense. I'm sure there are techniques taught in Aikido that are not taught in BJJ but I question as do others question their effectiveness in grappling (standup or ground).

BJJ does teach standup grappling (although every school is different about the how much). My instructor is also a blackbelt in Judo (over 20 years) so he teaches Judo throws as well. He also teaches BJJ seminars and exchanges knowledge with other martial arts masters. My instructor will be the first one to defend a TMA if he knows it works yet he has said he's never gotten anything from Aikido that he can't get from BJJ or Judo.

"You should also get a better feel for flowing and controlling/redirecting force during standup grappling" - I dont think that's a particularly accurate statement either. Not only that but just about all of BJJ is about "controlling/redirecting force", we just don't make a huge deal of it, we just do it everyday when we train.

As a reply to that, i let super speak for me.

Because each individual art, when trained specifically, will teach greater technical sophistication. I train BJJ, but if I wanted to learn to wrestle I wouldn't go to a bjj school, even though wrestling is a part of what's commonly taught at a bjj school. My instructor started as a JKD practitioner, but he didn't solely train under that one instructor. He trained there fore JKD, muay thai, savate, judo, and filipino martial arts. He sought out separate training for bjj (now a black belt), boxing, and wrestling. There is a value in training several individual arts under specialists, rather than being a generalist.

Also, many styles cross over, and nearly EVERY instructor(good ones) know techniques from 'other styles' which wouldn't be in a 'pure' BJJ/Aikido/Judo etc class, but which they may pass along to you too. So even just going to an Aikido seminar and learning from one of these masters might inform you on how to make your BJJ better, because he has also a BJJ blackbelt etc and incorporates some aspects of Aikido into his game that you never knew could be used in that manner. By refusing to be humble and treat each martial artist on their own merits and and instead engaging in style politics will only hurt your own development as a martial artist and a human being.

man these threads bring out so many delusional fruitcakes...

ex0, hav eyou ever grappled before? i mean legitimately against a ranked bjj guy?

Yes. But that guy also did jiujitsu, judo and some aikido, and his wrestling was pretty good too(although he never formally trained in it) before BJJ. So.. what's your actual point? Do you have one or are you just here to argue style politics and attack my credibility instead of my argument?

this is got to be one of the worst post I've seen...

If you're gonna be an asshole, at least explain yourself.