Akido or Judo

[nni]

man these threads bring out so many delusional fruitcakes...

ex0, hav eyou ever grappled before? i mean legitimately against a ranked bjj guy?

Why are you so aggressive though? No one has claimed that Aikido>bjj. In fact, most here agree that bjj fighter owns aikido fighter most of the time. Aikido just teaches you a different philosophy of approaching conflict. You want to get the attacker out of your way as quickly as possible and move on. BJJ on the other hand usually involves getting up close and personal with your attacker, which in most street fighting situations (or in clubs, etc) is not the best idea. So I still think there is value in learning Aikido, just not if you're the macho "challenge you to a duel" type of person.

 

[GingerNinja]

For the record no Martial Artist of any sort that I know, has ever been in a street fight. (Apart from the police I train with, but they aren't in the fight, they're generally trying to stop it) Maybe they're just good at avoiding shit, or maybe its because unlike the drunk idiots that feel the need to prove themselves, they don't go looking for shit. Everyone should train a MA, at the very least gives you a bit of discipline and respect and stops most people acting like idiots.

 

[Muscleshart]

Judo:
e there.

Cons:

* No striking defense.
* Most throws require modification if your opponent isn't wearing a jacket.
* Doesn't train defense against weapons, multiple opponents, etc.
* Pins are effective at holding someone down, but put you in a bad position if your opponent pulls a weapon or his friends join in.


Have you considered Krav Maga? That really combines the aforementioned pros of both Judo and Aikido.

Also, how can you not punch someone, but can slam them into concrete?

Judo does teach weapon disarms and defense against strikes. Unfortunately some schools only focus on the sport aspect of judo, but if you find a school that teaches pre-WWII judo you will find both. Kodokan Goshin Jutsu and Renkoho Waza are both katas that are very useful for self defense. They are not practiced in randori because they are difficult to practice safely. Also, the police were some of the first to adopt judo. The art is heavily influenced by them.

 

[Muscleshart]

Sure dude. Your police force or whatever would just implement a system that's not effective, and plenty of other law enforcement would also use it if it's not effective right?

Aikido has plenty of pain and pressure compliance locks and holds(very good for law enforcement). Forget about the non sparring bullshit they do. Just learn all the locks and holds and takedowns.

Judo has a lot of throws, and that's about it as far as i know. I guess you can include some kind of jits locks and subs in there, but isn't that more jits?

Do both. They both have something to offer you.

Absolutely police organizations would implement an ineffective art. We taught hand to hand at the SWAT school last year. This year, a politician wanted to teach Aikido because he's been doing it for twenty years. It was a joke! The guys were miserable and the guys putting the class together were embarrassed. Aikido looks great in a court room. Not so good on the street. It really depends on who you care about lawyers or law officers. The lawyers push for Aikido the officers push for us.

 

[Waldorf]

Also, many styles cross over, and nearly EVERY instructor(good ones) know techniques from 'other styles' which wouldn't be in a 'pure' BJJ/Aikido/Judo etc class, but which they may pass along to you too. So even just going to an Aikido seminar and learning from one of these masters might inform you on how to make your BJJ better, because he has also a BJJ blackbelt etc and incorporates some aspects of Aikido into his game that you never knew could be used in that manner. By refusing to be humble and treat each martial artist on their own merits and and instead engaging in style politics will only hurt your own development as a martial artist and a human being.

I think foucsing on "techniques" miss the real difference. One big difference is the way the BJJ is trained, lots of sparring, resistant drilling, and competition on all levels has refined the techniques and the practioners can perform them against resisting opponents, under stress, etc. The second difference is positional strategy. Plenty of arts teach an arm bar and may show a lot of details to make it tight in the finish position, but getting to the postion setting up, finishing it when all the details aren't right is where BJJ shines IMO. My understanding is Judo is similar in its training and strategy.

But even comparing techniques, I believe BJJ basic techniques are much more high percentage fight enders than Aikido as they tend to be more gross motor and are better at imbolizing the opponenet.

 

[CroSSGunS]

I'm only reading the first page of this thread, so don't flame me.

But, Judo *100000. I have done both Aikido and Judo, and I have to say that Judo is the one that is much more useful in live situations.

 

[ex0]

Absolutely police organizations would implement an ineffective art. We taught hand to hand at the SWAT school last year. This year, a politician wanted to teach Aikido because he's been doing it for twenty years. It was a joke! The guys were miserable and the guys putting the class together were embarrassed. Aikido looks great in a court room. Not so good on the street. It really depends on who you care about lawyers or law officers. The lawyers push for Aikido the officers push for us.

I think foucsing on "techniques" miss the real difference. One big difference is the way the BJJ is trained, lots of sparring, resistant drilling, and competition on all levels has refined the techniques and the practioners can perform them against resisting opponents, under stress, etc. The second difference is positional strategy. Plenty of arts teach an arm bar and may show a lot of details to make it tight in the finish position, but getting to the postion setting up, finishing it when all the details aren't right is where BJJ shines IMO. My understanding is Judo is similar in its training and strategy.

But even comparing techniques, I believe BJJ basic techniques are much more high percentage fight enders than Aikido as they tend to be more gross motor and are better at imbolizing the opponenet.

Exactly. I think the implementation(training methods) and the skill of individual practitioners is the difference here. There are plenty of McDojo's and fake/unskilled instructors(in many TMA's), and basing your argument of whether Aikido sucks or is useless on a shitty representation of the art by someone who isn't really qualified isn't fair imo. Otherwise, you might as well just say that all TMA's are useless and have nothing to offer you, which i believe is a completely ignorant statement. Of course, i am not comparing which one is better to learn in a zero sum game(because real life isn't a zero sum game), because the answer to that is easy. You'd rather do the realistic training rather than the Mcdojo training. But in real life, you get techniques and ideas and training from anywhere and everywhere, regardless of what style you get that technique/knowledge from. It doesn't matter.

 

[Waldorf]

Exactly. I think the implementation(training methods) and the skill of individual practitioners is the difference here. There are plenty of McDojo's and fake/unskilled instructors(in many TMA's), and basing your argument of whether Aikido sucks or is useless on a shitty representation of the art by someone who isn't really qualified isn't fair imo. Otherwise, you might as well just say that all TMA's are useless and have nothing to offer you, which i believe is a completely ignorant statement. Of course, i am not comparing which one is better to learn in a zero sum game(because real life isn't a zero sum game), because the answer to that is easy. You'd rather do the realistic training rather than the Mcdojo training. But in real life, you get techniques and ideas and training from anywhere and everywhere, regardless of what style you get that technique/knowledge from. It doesn't matter.

I probably come off as bashing Aikido, but thats not my intent, I base my evaluation of being a practioneer of it for some times and than practicing in better delivery systems. I Ienjoyed practicing Aikido, it was fun but I think there are much better methods to improve and develop skills as in fighting. I agree you can take inspiration from any art, and being able to fight at all ranges is a good things. But I throwing together different techniques in hodge podge is not a good idea. If you execute a few techniques from a lot of different postions and situations you will be much better than someone with a lot of tools in the chest, but not a lot of ways to get them out.

The original questions, I think, was if Judo and Aikido better for self defense and my expierence tells me that almost universally the answer would be Judo.

 

[Jinzumkei]

Also, many styles cross over, and nearly EVERY instructor(good ones) know techniques from 'other styles' which wouldn't be in a 'pure' BJJ/Aikido/Judo etc class, but which they may pass along to you too. So even just going to an Aikido seminar and learning from one of these masters might inform you on how to make your BJJ better, because he has also a BJJ blackbelt etc and incorporates some aspects of Aikido into his game that you never knew could be used in that manner. By refusing to be humble and treat each martial artist on their own merits and and instead engaging in style politics will only hurt your own development as a martial artist and a human being.

I respect other styles, in fact that was one of the first things I said. People take martial arts for different reasons. The only thing I questioned was aikido's usefulness to grappling because so far I haven't been able to see anything worth incorporating or learning.

 

[ex0]

I probably come off as bashing Aikido, but thats not my intent, I base my evaluation of being a practioneer of it for some times and than practicing in better delivery systems. I Ienjoyed practicing Aikido, it was fun but I think there are much better methods to improve and develop skills as in fighting. I agree you can take inspiration from any art, and being able to fight at all ranges is a good things. But I throwing together different techniques in hodge podge is not a good idea. If you execute a few techniques from a lot of different postions and situations you will be much better than someone with a lot of tools in the chest, but not a lot of ways to get them out.

The original questions, I think, was if Judo and Aikido better for self defense and my expierence tells me that almost universally the answer would be Judo.

I know what you're saying and i think we agree in general, but even if you take classes for only one school/style, you can learn a lot of junk too that you would never use. It depends purely on what you want out of it. I could think that a certain move or technique in any single style is not worth learning, for varying reasons. Ie because i'm not big enough, it's not practical/high percentage enough, or it doesn't suit my personal vision and style/body. I could learn something else instead of this technique. I'm not just telling people to add techniques from every style into their game. Like Bruce Lee said, It's not really about adding on. It's about recognizing and throwing away all the crap and keeping the good. Good means useful and practical if you are doing it for self defense and not to be an encyclopedia on techniques or a trainer.