International Active US Air Force member self-immolates outside Israel Embassy in Washington

spamking said:
Wait. You see this act as some presentation of martyrdom AND are chastising those who don't see it that way as not being as smart as you?
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Why don't you actually read my positions because you've responded three times and they're all equally ignorant and have little to do with what I've said.

My argument is that the certainty of calling this guy an idiot or crazy and/or pretending his actions will have no influence on anyone is arrogant and wrong.


My position is that it is wrong to be so certain about that. I'm not presenting a position of certainty that he was a martyr only that it is possible and also that it is difficult for anyone in this age to understand because people have become so selfish.
 
terrapin said:
Only because they don't want to because they don't want to give any power or good to someone or something that disagrees with their positions...

This is why I don't value intelligence nearly as highly as the world seems to because it's the sincere use of intelligence that counts for a lot more than just IQ.
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This dude's suicide will achieve nothing and mean nothing in a week or so outside his circle of family/friends.

You really think Palestinians and Hamas give a fuck?
 
terrapin said:
This has almost nothing to do with the point I made....
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So what was your point in saying this?

The one saying saying there's 7 billion people and lots and lots of different ways to look at this situation or you saying no there's only my way and everyone else is either stupid if they don't agree or no one's going to think differently than me about it anyway?
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You obviously think some percentage see it like you do and would agree that taking this extreme step meant something. Does that not also imply that feel some percentage would take the same drastic steps to set themselves on fire?
 
Now maybe the Climate Activists will start doing the same thing...
 
spamking said:
So what was your point in saying this?



You obviously think some percentage see it like you do and would agree that taking this extreme step meant something. Does that not also imply that feel some percentage would take the same drastic steps to set themselves on fire?
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Sure, but it's spurious to my argument and frankly kind of ridiculous. Why don't you actually respond to my entire position intelligently and let's have a discussion?
 
Scerpi said:
This dude's suicide will achieve nothing and mean nothing in a week or so outside his circle of family/friends.

You really think Palestinians and Hamas give a fuck?
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I think that assuming no palestine's and no Israelis will give a f*** is indefensible intellectually. But also assuming his motivation was to influence a soldier or a government official is also intellectually in defensible and assumes all kinds of things that there's no data for.

He believed very strongly that there is a genocide taking place and he wanted to draw attention to the horrors being enacted by the Israelis and he has done that and some thoughtful and intelligent people will take what he has done with some gravity and think about this situation in light of what he has done. And I'm saying he is the only one who is qualified to weigh those results against his actions that he has taken and see if it was worth it.

I'm not arguing everyone will. I'm arguing against the ridiculous and humorous notion that no one will.

Also, I already have because of it and I'm certainly not going to be the only one.
 
terrapin said:
Why don't you actually read my positions because you've responded three times and they're all equally ignorant and have little to do with what I've said.

My argument is that the certainty of calling this guy an idiot or crazy and/or pretending his actions will have no influence on anyone is arrogant and wrong.


My position is that it is wrong to be so certain about that. I'm not presenting a position of certainty that he was a martyr only that it is possible and also that it is difficult for anyone in this age to understand because people have become so selfish.
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I can say with certainty that this guy was crazy, and history has shown that his actions will not have the impact you seem so adamant about them having. You speak of arrogancy all while completely ignoring your own.

If you're not trying to come from a position of certainty yourself, what point are you trying to make by continuing to chastise us for not being as "enlightened" as you think you are and for not having such an opened mind like you think you have?

You come across as someone who can't fathom being wrong and seem to feel like you have approached some high level of intellect that regardless of how directly related to your ridiculous comments our responses are you continue to act like nobody here gets you.
 
terrapin said:
Sure, but it's spurious to my argument and frankly kind of ridiculous. Why don't you actually respond to my entire position intelligently and let's have a discussion?
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Is this basically your entire position?

terrapin said:
He believed very strongly that there is a genocide taking place and he wanted to draw attention to the horrors being enacted by the Israelis and he has done that and some thoughtful and intelligent people will take what he has done with some gravity and think about this situation in light of what he has done. And I'm saying he is the only one who is qualified to weigh those results against his actions that he has taken and see if it was worth it.

I'm not arguing everyone will. I'm arguing against the ridiculous and humorous notion that no one will.

Also, I already have because of it and I'm certainly not going to be the only one.
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KnightTemplar said:
It will be forgotten by the end of the week. Before that if Trump or Biden do/say something remarkably stupid even by their standards.
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Don't think so. The Vietnam monk has been immortalized for 50 years now. These things are uncommon especially for an active USAF officer.
Anyway, whether it is remembered by a million superficial people with 30 second attention spans as they scroll to their next picture of UberEats is largely irrelevant. Whether it is remembered by people with a moral compass is what is important.

And what's significant is if the gravity of his actions and the gravity of our military depravity resonates more fully through this, with someone of decision making importance. And that is very much a distinct possibility.
 
spamking said:
I can say with certainty that this guy was crazy, and history has shown that his actions will not have the impact you seem so adamant about them having. You speak of arrogancy all while completely ignoring your own.

If you're not trying to come from a position of certainty yourself, what point are you trying to make by continuing to chastise us for not being as "enlightened" as you think you are and for not having such an opened mind like you think you have?

You come across as someone who can't fathom being wrong and seem to feel like you have approached some high level of intellect that regardless of how directly related to your ridiculous comments our responses are you continue to act like nobody here gets you.
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Every accusation you have made against me is projection. You simply can't think what you're thinking if you've read my posts, it's just not possible. What you are doing is just arguing from ignorance.



Which of these two positions seems more arrogant to you?

Position one-- He is crazy for certain. There's no chance he had any sane motives and nothing he did will influence anyone ever.

Position two-- it is possible that he is crazy, but it is also possible he came from an act of self-love and self-sacrifice and it is possible and actually extremely likely that out of 7 billion some people will be influenced by what he did.


I do not believe that you can argue honestly in favor of position one.

@spamking check my edit for spelling. I'm doing voice to text.
 
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Just saw a Breaking Points video about this. Poor dude. That was a guy who was just build differently. If he had a righteous cause in the USA, he would have given his life for it. Unfortunately, we're the bad guys now, and he knew it. Tragic.
 
That'll show em.

Seriously though this is sad. He needed mental help obviously.
 
spamking said:
Is this basically your entire position?
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No do a search and read the last 15 or so posts and then you'll have my complete position.

You need to read my position in context to who I've been discussing with and what they have said.
 
TheMaster said:
Don't think so. The Vietnam monk has been immortalized for 50 years now. These things are uncommon especially for an active USAF officer.
Anyway, whether it is remembered by a million superficial people with 30 second attention spans as they scroll to their next picture of UberEats is largely irrelevant. Whether it is remembered by people with a moral compass is what is important.

And what's significant is if the gravity of his actions and the gravity of our military depravity resonates more fully through this, with someone of decision making importance. And that is very much a distinct possibility.
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After doing research today and finding out how many other people have set themselves on fire in the US in the last year that I had no clue about I'm rather certain this will be relegated as a footnote after a few weeks.
 
SummerStriker said:
Just saw a Breaking Points video about this. Poor dude. That was a guy who was just build differently. If he had a righteous cause in the USA, he would have given his life for it. Unfortunately, we're the bad guys now, and he knew it. Tragic.
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I had made a thread about this with the breaking points video in it but it was posted just minutes after this thread was.

They did a great job covering the situation.
 
Osculater said:
He could had at least gotten a back tattoo of "Free Palestine"
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Nobody can see back tattoos. All these Free Palestine people should really commit and get large facial tattoos with it to really try to drive home the point.
 
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