International Active US Air Force member self-immolates outside Israel Embassy in Washington

[terrapin]

It's an age defined by a 24 hour news cycle where we're constantly bombarded with information.

Because of this story, I just found out that this isn't even the first time this happened.

I hadn't heard of this one at all.

The criticism isn't all out of hatred or negativity--I think it is a shame that a young man gave up his life in this way when there were a million better ways to bring attention to this issue that didn't require him setting himself on fire. His actions may influence somebody, but so could have a lot of other actions that again wouldn't require him to die.

Yes, but this is a profoundly narrow-minded point of view that I think is indefensible philosophically. Rather than comprehending that there is a wide field and wide array of activities a person can take in a given situation to benefit the world for the better and that no one is wise enough to know which one every person should do in every situation you stupidly cling to just your own personal perspective.

I genuinely think that's just a symptom of the kind of selfishness I'm talking about. That makes it hard for you to understand self-sacrifice.

 

[Wetarmpits]

All the people saying he will accomplish nothing are just themselves completely fixed in their position moving instantly to hatred of the other.

There are many, many people who are compassionate and thoughtful who will be influenced by this man's actions. It's either a kind of lie or profound ignorance to suggest otherwise frankly.

He may have felt it was well worth giving his life just to bring attention and some people's minds to be opened around the horrors going on in Palestine.

Only an age completely defined by selfishness can lose the awareness that giving one's life for a cause is a deep act of love or can be a deep act of love.

Don't shit yourself. Guy was crazy, without any fucking cause thinking of some fucking ego driven male martyr bravado before and then regretting it screaming in pain. He did nothing with that than hurt someone else because of his ignorant and foolish selfishness and pseuo-righteousness.

It can be a deep act of love to sacrifice yourself but this is nothing even close to that.

And no, noone will care. bums in Berlin are burning themelves sometimes, noone gives a shit at the end of the day except some poor social worker who's one step closer to the bottle and potenially being a bum himself at some time. That monk got only attention because it was a great photo and story to tell and make money off.

And the horros going on in Palestine? These horrors went on and on and on long before by generations of ultra radicalized, brain-washed people, butchered at birth basically with no hope of formulating their own opinion, throwing rocks from the age of 4, being educated only in hate.

And here you are thinking your little salmon would do anything. Pitiful.

 

[Tatra]

They're never not repulsive.

 

[terrapin]

You don't really see this as some profound act of martyrdom do you?

Obviously we don't know all the details so there are facts that could come forward that would make me lean towards now. But in college we did that experiments and I wish people didn't stop doing them after they got out of college!!!

The thought experiment is he says he gave his life himself sacrifice and he seemed stable. What if he was what would that mean? And unless you have ruled out martyrdom as a possibility in the human condition, then you must recognize the weight and value that this act of self-sacrifice holds even if you disagree with his position.

So really the question is can you conceive of any time when a person giving their own life for another could be a good thing and if you can then you have to be open to the possibility that that's what this man did. And then the thought experiment is to just think about what that means if that's the case. And you don't even have to be certain that it's the case in order to have an open mind enough to do the experiment.

 

[nhbbear]

Police reaction is a classic

I didn’t watch the video of there is one, I have only seen this picture. I wonder what goes on in the mind of that cop. Is he afraid he’s going to get rushed by a burning man or is he thinking about putting the guy out of his misery. What would the response be?

I had a very serious discussion years ago about situations like this after I nominated a couple officers for merit when they went into a burning vehicle to retrieve the body of an already deceased crash victim so her body didn’t burn. The video was insane. And it made me wonder what would happen if I ever came upon someone burning alive. It would enter my head to shoot them to put them out of their misery, but what would the end result be? Charged with murder or would it be recognized as merciful?

 

[SmilinDesperado]

None of these are arguments at all as far as I can tell. That there are other possibilities is kind of a given, isn't it? I don't really see the thought you've put into this from your post frankly.

When you said this day and age though is the one part that made me think. Yeah, you're right... In this day and age defined by profound selfishness an act of martyrdom does seem insane, but that's only because we've lost any love for the other and only care about ourselves.

Whether or not he was mentally ill I don't know. But I do know that love could drive a person to this action and care for something more than yourself could drive a person to this action.

Reading through this thread, the thing that interests me most is how almost nobody can comprehend that kind of love anymore. And the saddest thing about that is that most of them probably could comprehend an act of love like that as long as it didn't conflict with their position on this topic.

So it's not an intellectual incapacity to understand the subject of martyrdom. It's a willful ignorance in protection of a pet theory or idea.

The way in which you are talking about dying for a worthy cause makes it sound like a guy going on a suicide mission, or taking a bullet to save someone. That would be understandable. The way in which he did this was just throwing his life away.
Of all of the ways one could give a voice and help a cause, this is about the most senseless one imaginable.
Especially as a soldier and in the age of social media, his voice would've been more useful than his death.
The act of martyrdom isn't what I am criticizing--it's the way it was done and the overall ineffectiveness of it compared to other available options.
Obviously, the choice was his, and perhaps he thought this was the most effective way to deliver his message--I just disagree and think there were a billion better ways.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

In the cop’s defense, you have to protect yourself at all times. What was going through his head at that point was probably “What if this fucker is on PCP or meth and gets a seocond wind and decides to try to tackle me?”

guy was a moron. at the end bushnell was basically melted into the pavement

and this dipshit was still like SIR GET DOWN SIR GET DOWN SHOW ME YOUR HANDS NO SUDDEN MOVEMENTS SIR

 

[nhbbear]

They're never not repulsive.

Jesus. The cringe on that conversation and then her picture. I wonder if that is a catfish job and fake account to make fun of people like her(?) and then the capper “he’s black now.” That is so fuxking savage.

 

[spamking]

So really the question is can you conceive of any time when a person giving their own life for another could be a good thing and if you can then you have to be open to the possibility that that's what this man did. And then the thought experiment is to just think about what that means if that's the case. And you don't even have to be certain that it's the case in order to have an open mind enough to do the experiment.

I can conceive of a time when a person gives their own life to SAVE another, but that's not what this is in my opinion.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

I didn’t watch the video of there is one, I have only seen this picture. I wonder what goes on in the mind of that cop. Is he afraid he’s going to get rushed by a burning man or is he thinking about putting the guy out of his misery. What would the response be?

I had a very serious discussion years ago about situations like this after I nominated a couple officers for merit when they went into a burning vehicle to retrieve the body of an already deceased crash victim so her body didn’t burn. The video was insane. And it made me wonder what would happen if I ever came upon someone burning alive. It would enter my head to shoot them to put them out of their misery, but what would the end result be? Charged with murder or would it be recognized as merciful?

It's probably simpler. guy went to his safe place, which was training. brain was so overwhelmed he just automatically collapsed into how-to-handle-danger 101. it's either that or he was really stupid. towards the end you can clearly tell there's no question of danger, so why keep the gun on what amounts to a pile of burned flesh.

 

[terrapin]

I can conceive of a time when a person gives their own life to SAVE another, but that's not what this is in my opinion.

That's an okay opinion to have because you're not stating that it's a fact. But I also think you leave a lot to chance here because you really don't know that what he did won't save a life and assuming so, I think is unjustifiable. It is absolutely possible that a life will be saved because of this because it may profoundly affect how some soldiers behave when dealing with Palestinians.

But also saving a life cannot be the only useful means of martyrdom. Sacrificing oneself for an ideal in a way that motivates others deeply is also a worthy object of sacrifice.

And it would be very wrong to pretend that no one has been motivated deeply by his actions or could be.

As with most topics on sherdog. I think it's fine for someone to hold an opinion that the soldier shouldn't have done that, but to think of that opinion as a necessity is extremely small-minded.

To go beyond that to mocking is profound foolishness and self-centeredness.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

They're never not repulsive.

As ugly on the outside as they are in the inside.

Evil infects the mind and then the body.

 

[DarthChen731]

That's an okay opinion to have because you're not stating that it's a fact. But I also think you leave a lot to chance here because you really don't know that what he did won't save a life and assuming so, I think is unjustifiable. It is absolutely possible that a life will be saved because of this because it may profoundly affect how some soldiers behave when dealing with Palestinians.

But also saving a life cannot be the only useful means of martyrdom. Sacrificing oneself for an ideal in a way that motivates others deeply is also a worthy object of sacrifice.

And it would be very wrong to pretend that no one has been motivated deeply by his actions or could be.

As with most topics on sherdog. I think it's fine for someone to hold an opinion that the soldier shouldn't have done that, but to think of that opinion as a necessity is extremely small-minded.

To go beyond that to mocking is profound foolishness and self-centeredness.

Israeli will not change their course of action because of this.

Zero lives were saved.

 

[Scerpi]

 

[spamking]

That's an okay opinion to have because you're not stating that it's a fact. But I also think you leave a lot to chance here because you really don't know that what he did won't save a life and assuming so, I think is unjustifiable. It is absolutely possible that a life will be saved because of this because it may profoundly affect how some soldiers behave when dealing with Palestinians.

But also saving a life cannot be the only useful means of martyrdom. Sacrificing oneself for an ideal in a way that motivates others deeply is also a worthy object of sacrifice.

And it would be very wrong to pretend that no one has been motivated deeply by his actions or could be.

As with most topics on sherdog. I think it's fine for someone to hold an opinion that the soldier shouldn't have done that, but to think of that opinion as a necessity is extremely small-minded.

To go beyond that to mocking is profound foolishness and self-centeredness.

Anything is possible, but in my opinion glorifying this act and reading way more into it than reality dictates is pretty far fetched.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

For Palestine.

 

[terrapin]

Anything is possible, but in my opinion glorifying this act and reading way more into it than reality dictates is pretty far fetched.

But you can only say that assuming it was not a genuine act of self-sacrifice and you don't know that...

Best way is to think about all the possibilities and learn from each of them rather than hold to one narrow-minded view that confirms a bias.

 

[spamking]

For Palestine.

obligatory

 

[Blayt7hh]

You use the word should and I wouldn't want to defend why someone should. But I think that's extremely narrow framing of the potential of his act.

I can tell you that the gravity of what he did has already deepened my compassion and sense of gravity around what is happening between Israel and Palestine. I will be thinking about this for a days if not months or even years . If this man is not mentally ill and he did this as a reasoned self-sacrifice then having that effect on people like me is probably is something that crossed his mind and probably something he thought would be worth the sacrifice...

And also some people will change their minds about this due to what he did. So I there is a difference between should and would in this case.

From a logical standpoint, his actions should not affect how you think about the situation. Even with what you said, that you would think differently about it and more deeply now, frankly you shouldn’t. That’s just emotional manipulation and a literal logical fallacy.

All he did was draw attention to a situation. He made no actual argument for his case.

 

[spamking]

But you can only say that assuming it was not a genuine act of self-sacrifice and you don't know that...

Best way is to think about all the possibilities and learn from each of them rather than hold to one narrow-minded view that confirms a bias.

Sorry, we're just going to have to agree to disagree. There is nothing honorable about what this guy did and absolutely no reason to try and make it more than it was . . . and it was not a genuine act of self-sacrifice that deserves a place of honor.