A wolf versus a dog (discuss please)

[Te Huna Matata]

How do you think it compared in size to your German Shepard?

 

[Abezal]

For one its usually the alphas that fight and its one on one, thats how wolves get killed.

So its a average bar going fool (dog) taking on a prime Fedor with that look in his eyes(wolf), since most here need a metaphor to grasp things.

Even with equal size the wolf is still the best biggest strongest that climbed to alpha status. The dog is the one that one of you idiots choose cause its was cute. Not the making of a good fair fight.

Its a million years of natures best vs 200 years of human stupidity fucking that up.

Wolf by armbar.

 

[Real_Magi]

I guess you are not a farmer. It just doesn't work that way. It's not that easy. Plus other then the wolves, they might be living in prime farming location, which is harder and harder to find and quite expensive. You're talking about possible millions in cost just to move.

Plus how much do you think someone would be willing to pay for that 'wolf infested' property? Pulling out the guns and dropping everything that comes out of the woods is by all means the best solution as far as they are concerned.

I grew up on a farm and still live in a rural area. And yes, it is that easy. Farms are bought and sold all over the US, all the time. It's actually quite lucrative to buy regular property then develop it into farm land and sell it after a couple of years.

Selling that property would be easy and insanely lucrative, they'd make tons of money. Mountain property always sells for insane amounts of cash and the wolves being there would drive the price higher. Farmers wouldn't buy it, but there are people who pay insane amounts of money for property located in the thick of wildlife. The same buyers who are interested in that type of thing will spend hundreds of thousands of dollar for two weeks of guided hunting. There is an incredible market for that sort of thing.

You would need to be an influential ty**** to get zoning rights to develop on farmland. Not to mention the lack of infrastructure and overcoming EPA regulations. Unless youre Microsoft or Amazon building a campus, who would buy that land so far out?

Not true at all. You guys obviously live in big cities and just don't know how this works. In my home town the most expensive property around is in the mountains surrounding the small cities. Places in down town SLC don't cost as much as the property on the mountain where guys with loads of cash build vacation homes, and it's the same way around small towns and rural communities.

Mountain property is always worth more money than other places. You get people buying it that have high paying jobs in the city that just want a place to get away from it all and the more wildlife the better for those buyers. I've seen 500 sq ft huts that are barely capable of housing a couple hunters for a winter sell for close to a million dollars.

Go look up prices for upper scale mountain communities with nice homes.

 

[Canuck]

Wolves hunt dogs...

http://www.vancouversun.com/Wolf+wa...after+three+dogs+attacked/10884898/story.html

 

[laz0001]

I've done a fair amount of research when the topic came up in another thread and the overwhelming majority of opinions and evidence shows tigers destroy lions. A full grown tiger can get up to 850lbs. A fully grown lion only tops off at around 500lbs. Tigers have a much more powerful bite, are quicker, stronger, and substantially smarter. Most instances I've read of lions killing tigers was on sneak attacks where they latched on to a tiger's neck.

This is all you need to know:



A kodiak bear destroys both though.

That's not all there is to that Wikipedia article...

"There are various records of captive lions killing captive tigers. Some of these were circus animals, some were pit fights arranged in the early 20th century, and others accidental encounters between the two big cats. For example, Logansport Press, 1934, reports a battle between a fully grown African lion and a mature Bengal Tiger a short time after these circus animals were unloaded from the train. Before trainers could separate them, the lion had killed the tiger.[37] At South Perth Zoo, 1949, in a three minute fight between a lion and a tiger, the lion killed the tiger. The fight occurred when the tiger put his head through a connecting slide. The lion caught the tiger by the throat, and, dragging it through the opening, killed it before the keepers arrived.[38] Dave Hoover, the animal trainer for Clyde Beatty-Cole Brothers Circus, mentions that he lost some of his tigers to male lions: "I have to keep the male lions from killing each other. I have to keep them from killing the tigers [...]. I have lost tigers." [39]"

Tigers are ambush animals - they hunt silently and kill their prey based on surprise and size.

Male lions are 1-on-1 fighters against other male lions.

 

[Kick Strickland]

Doesn't sound like a coyote. They aren't that big. I lived around those things quite a bit and they are typically pretty scared of domestic dogs and they have the build of a medium sized dog.

I've seen coyotes in the yard before, and they normally are pretty small and really skiddish. Never seen them act the way this thing acted. And it was dusk so it was a little hard to see, but it looked pretty big. But something about the way it moved, plus that long ass tail, made me think feline more than canine. Not sure though.

^creepy. Good thing it dodnt attack you two. You sure it wasnt a chupacabra? I know they are rampant in tx. But in alabama?

Alabama chupacabras would be way scarier than Texas chupacabras imo. And better at football.

They actually do as you described. The most common in your area are "latrans frustor" (19 subspecies). I think you have some "cannis rufus" (red wolves) in your area now. The red wolf is not very large but larger than coyote they are 45-75 pounds.

Does a redwolf have a long tail? Like, think of a tigers tail. That's how the tail looked. It was weird, man. My dog has a long tail, but it's thick with fur. This things tail looked slender all the way down.

How do you think it compared in size to your German Shepard?

Probably about as tall, give or take a little. But way skinnier around it's stomach area.

For reference, this is my dog:

Spoiler

I think she's around 60-70 lbs, maybe less

 

[Cuzcatlan]

Starving Wolf >>game (name the breed).

Every time you here some large dog get killed by some mountain lion. It's always some starving one with some broken leg. A desperate wild animal, is the worst thing you want to encounter. That's when they don't care if they get hurt. It's eat now or die.

 

[Brampton_Boy]

I'd put money on any Chihahua that actually gets to pop a nut in that hellish dog orgy bro

How do you manage to breed 125% of a dog?

On the topic at hand, I have a fascination with wolves (and tigers), and was always under the impression that they were opportunistic pack hunters that rarely engaged in one on one confrontation.

While they may be physically equipped to kill most dogs, I question whether they possess the "fight" mentality that some domesticated breeds have (primarily pit bulls).

With that being said, I would still put my money on a wolf over 99.9% of dogs by virtue of their virtually limitless cardiovascular capacity. I have read stories about wolves tracking their prey 50+ kilometers (and the animal basically gives up by the end).

 

[Te Huna Matata]

Deleted because my post was too long...

They heavily edited that article and took out a lot of anecdotal comments from experts. Luckily, I remembered where we were talking about that and found my post quoting it:

My original post back in October of 2014: http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/99439127-post446.html

Physical comparison[edit]
Comparative size[edit]

Comparative profiles of the lion and tiger[13]
The Siberian tiger and Bengal tiger represent the largest subspecies of the Panthera genus,[14] with reliably measured specimens weighed up to 465 kg (1,025 lb)[15] and 388.7 kg (857 lb)[16] respectively. The largest African lion on record weighted 313 kg (690 lb).[17] The average weight of males is 175 kilograms (390 lb) for the Asiatic lion, 186 kilograms (410 lb) for the African lion,[18][19][20] 221.2 kilograms (488 lb) for the Bengal tiger and 230 kilograms (510 lb) for the Siberian tiger.[21][22] Note the average weight 221.2 kilograms (488 lb) measured for the Bengal tiger excluded any stomach content while the average weight 186 kilograms (410 lb) measured for the African lion included stomach contents,[19][21] and a lion may eat up to 30 kg (66 lb) in one sitting.[23]

Temperament[edit]
The lion is a highly social animal and the tiger is a solitary animal, and they have marked differences in personality. It is generally agreed that the tiger is the faster, smarter, and more ferocious of the two so keepers of captive tigers must take care to avoid a sudden attack.[24]

Brain Size[edit]
A study by Oxford University scientists has shown that tigers have much bigger brains, relative to body size, than lions and other big cats. Although comparisons showed that lion skulls were larger overall, the tiger's cranial volume is the largest - even the tiny female Balinese tiger skulls have cranial volumes as large as those of huge male southern African lion skulls.[25][26] Note Balinese tigresses weight between 65–80 kg (143–176 lb)[27] while the southern African male lions have an average weight of 189.6 kilograms (418 lb), representing the largest living lions.[19]

Bite Force[edit]
Tigers have been shown to have higher average bite forces (such as at the canine tips) than lions.[28] The bite force adjusted for body mass allometry (BFQ) for tiger is 127 while that for lion is 112.[29] Tigers have a well-developed sagittal crest and coronoid processes, providing muscle attachment for their strong bite.[30] Tigers also have exceptionally stout teeth, and the canines are the longest and biggest among all living felids, measuring from 7.5 to 10 cm (3.0 to 3.9 in) in length, and are larger and longer than those of a similar-sized lion,[30][31] probably because tigers need to bring down larger preys alone than lions, which usually hunt large preys in groups.[31]

Accidental fights in captivity[edit]
Although lions and tigers can be kept together in harmony in captivity,[32] conflicts between the two species in captivity ending up in fatalities have also been recorded. The most recent account of a fight in captivity happened on March 2011, where a tiger at the Ankara Zoo attacked a lion through its enclosure and killed the lion with a single paw swipe.[33] "The tiger severed the lion's jugular vein in a single stroke with its paw, leaving the animal dying in a pool of blood," officials said. At the Coney Island animal show in 1909, a male tiger killed a male lion. During the performance, a performing lion suddenly attacked a chained tiger by leaping through the air, landing on the tiger's back. Though hampered by the heavy neck chain fastened to the iron bars of the arena, the tiger was more than a match for the lion and mangled the lion to death.[34] In 1857, a 18 month old juvenile tiger at the Bromwich Zoo broke into the cage of an adult lion and a fearful scene ensued: the lion fought defensively and its mane saved his head and neck from being injured, but the young tiger succeeded in ripping up his stomach, and within a few minutes he was dead.[35]

Although the tiger usually came out the victor of a fight in captivity against the lion,[36][37] accounts that lions killing smaller tigers in captivity with an early advantage (e.g. by sudden attack without warning when the tigers were off guard) have been occasionally recorded. For example in December 2008, a 110 kg male lion killed a 90 kg tigress in a Korean zoo by suddenly biting it in the neck when the tigress jumped down to the trench.[38] In 1951 a large male African lion killed a much smaller tigress at a circus. The lion caught the tigress off guard, suddenly leaped from a high perch and sank its jaws into the tigress's back when the tigress was performing. The tigress died an hour after the attack because of the injuries sustained.[39][40]

Expert opinions[edit]
John Varty, owner of the Londolozi Reserve in South Africa, said, "People always ask me which one is bigger? If a tiger and a lion had a fight, which one would win? Well, I've seen tigers crunch up a full-grown leopard tortoise like it was nothing. And lions try, but they just don't get it right. If there's a fight, the tiger will win, every time."[41]

The animal rescue organisation Big Cat Rescue of Tampa, Florida answered, "While we would much prefer that people focus their thoughts on saving these magnificent animals than on who would win if a lion and tiger fight, the power of these two largest cats seems to raise this question in people's minds. While it would depend on the size, age, and aggressiveness of the specific animals involved, generally tigers have a significant advantage."[42]

The conservation charity Save China's Tigers stated, "Recent research indicates that the tiger is indeed stronger than the lion in terms of physical strength. Lions hunt in prides, so it would be in a group and the tigers as a solitary creature so it would be on its own. A tiger is generally physically larger than a lion. Most experts would favor a Siberian and Bengal tiger over an African lion."[43]

National Geographic Channel's documentary The Last Lions of Asia mentioned that a Bengal tiger has a weight advantage of 50 kilograms (110 lb) over an Asiatic lion, and can kill the lion in a fight.[44]

John Smith Clarke, a British lion tamer, said in a lecture on the fight between a tiger and a lion given to the Glasgow Zoological Society while showing the actual fight on the screen, "in 100 cases out of 100 the tiger would always beat the lion. It was far more agile, it was not so clumsy in its movements, it was equally strong, it was equally armed, but it fought in a different way. The tiger very often fought rolling on its back and held the lion in its grip until it defeated him."[45]

Other articles:
http://www.diffen.com/difference/Lion_vs_Tiger

That the typical tiger is a fiercer fighter than the typical lion is common knowledge. Less widely known is what gives that tiger the advantage. Simple thing. The lion stands on three paws to maul with the fourth. But the tiger balances itself on its hind legs to maul with both front paws simultaneously.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/tiger-vs-lionwho-would-win-83275452/?no-ist

Lions are the king of the plains. Tigers rule the jungle. But face to face, which would win?

Tigers are heavier, weighing up to 800 pounds to the lion’s 550. But the two cats aren’t so different in size. Here, their profiles are superimposed:

You might remember from high school health class that muscle weighs more than fat, which helps explain the tiger’s extra pounds. So it seems that the tiger would have a physical advantage over the lion.

But it turns out that we have some historical data to add to this conjecture, too. In ancient Rome, the tiger-lion face-off wasn’t uncommon. In 1959, a reader asked the Spokesman-Review this question, and the paper, in turn, asked William Bridges, the curator of publications at the Bronx Zoo. He told them that “back in the day of the Roman Coliseum, the smart money usually backed the tiger.” While we don’t have any great descriptions of the outcomes, ancient paintings of the event usually showed the tiger winning. And in the late 1800′s, the Gaekwad of Baroda, an Indian ruler, arranged a fight between the two beasts. Before the fight began, those running the bettor set the odds at 1 to 37,000 that the tiger would win. It did, and the Gaekwad lost 37,000 rupees.

And in 2011, a tiger killed a lion with a single paw swipe in a run in at Ankara Zoo in Turkey. The tiger apparently found a gap in the fence, and made its way into the lion’s enclosure. When they met, the tiger severed the lion’s jugular vein in just one stroke. Craig Saffoe, a biologist at the Smithsonian Zoo, also generally favored the tiger, telling LiveScience, “What I’ve seen from tigers, they seem to be more aggressive; they go for the throat, go for the kill. Whereas the lions are more, ‘I will just pound you and play with you.’”

But fighting in an arena, and even in a zoo, is quite different than fighting in the wild. If a tiger were to meet a lion without cages or screaming fans, what would happen? That’s actually a question that some conservationists are having to answer right now. There’s a plan to move some Asiatic lions to from the Gir forest to Kuno Palpur, where there are tigers. The University of Minessota’s Lion Research Center says that the plan has been delayed for fear that the native tigers would kill the lions.

 

[no fat chicks]

either one of these guys would eat any dog

 

[Tater Raider]

They'd beat any dog 1 on 1.

You are mistaken

 

[Tater Raider]

Starving Wolf >>game (name the breed).

Every time you here some large dog get killed by some mountain lion. It's always some starving one with some broken leg. A desperate wild animal, is the worst thing you want to encounter. That's when they don't care if they get hurt. It's eat now or die.

Mountain Lions kill wolves quite often

 

[theocean]

very few dogs would stand a chance. The wolf champion of a certain area versus dog champion of any area almost always goes to the wolf.

But if the dog is padding stats and the champion dog of a certain area so the local CCM dog takes on the #5 ranked wolf in the same district then the #1 dog has a shot to get the W.

Really there are very few dogs (the CCM, some of the bigger Mastiffs, A very big Malamute, A very big Akita) may have a fighters chance to get lucky, a massive dog with a shit ton of hair would also have a little advantage since getting through all that hair to get a hold of the neck is more challenging so the dog could make more errors and have a bit of a safety net since its necks harder to get to.

The wolf should be the favorite 95% of the times though when matched up with a dog.

Being a former manager (prior to my wolfs getting caught juicing) for most of the top ranked fighting wolves in the world you can take everything i said to the bank.

 

[Deleted member 409801]

For one its usually the alphas that fight and its one on one, thats how wolves get killed.

So its a average bar going fool (dog) taking on a prime Fedor with that look in his eyes(wolf), since most here need a metaphor to grasp things.

Even with equal size the wolf is still the best biggest strongest that climbed to alpha status. The dog is the one that one of you idiots choose cause its was cute. Not the making of a good fair fight.

Its a million years of natures best vs 200 years of human stupidity fucking that up.

Wolf by armbar.

My take on it pretty much. This argument is an extension of the hubristic attitude that man has an answer for any and everything , the idea that if we get our hands into something it will always be an improvement. I don't KNOW how this hypothetical would shake out , I don't think any of us here does. Of course you wouldn't know with the typical stating of an opinion as if it were immutable

" A Pyrenees WOULD merc( fucking stupid ass word) a timber wolf yo! / thread"

Ok there Marty Stoufer! Thanks for clearing that up!

 

[minute bull]

I get there are some dogs that are chingaso enough to tussle with wolves, but this is really a case of exceptions proving the rule.

That's not all there is to that Wikipedia article...

"There are various records of captive lions killing captive tigers."

oryl?

I would say the operative word here is "captive," which are likely not the best examples of their respective species.

 

[Jack Handy jr]

How do you manage to breed 125% of a dog?

it's kinda easy really. selective designer dog breeding is all the rave nowadays,and one of my hobbies.

you take the teacup Chihuahua and mate him with the Irish wolfhound. teacup Chihuahuas are legendary for packing serious meat in the man region, so trust me he could get the job done. you'd only need to insert his whole body into the Wulfhound's lady part.

the game bred pit tags the Doberman, and the Russian wolf which after a year or so mates with the offspring of the chihauhau and the wulfhund. the end result is the baddest dog that ever lived. I'm taking pre orders for puppies at $8,000 per pup.feel free to pm me.

 

[WrestlinganJudo]

Does a redwolf have a long tail? Like, think of a tigers tail. That's how the tail looked. It was weird, man. My dog has a long tail, but it's thick with fur. This things tail looked slender all the way down.

It's not like a tigers tail. Redwolves have been confused as jumbo sized coyote.

There are unconfirmed reports of Mt Lion in your area.

 

[WrestlinganJudo]

I understand where you're coming from, but most of these guys are sitting on thousands of acres of mountain property that has been in the family for generations. They're basically sitting on a small fortune. 15k acres in the mountains would sell for insane amounts of money.

Also, even if they bought the property in the last 5 years (very unlikely with the wolf problems) that land would still be worth a shit load. If it was bought ten years ago they'd actually make a shit load selling at this point from inflation.

I would imagine that the amount of them that are just out right incapable of moving is less than 1%. I can't imagine anyone buying a farm in an area that is probably the worst place to farm in the entire US right now. If they did, that was an incredibly stupid business venture on their part. The good thing for people that would sell though is that they don't have to sell it as farm land. Tons of people (obviously not farmers) would kill to live in an area so rich with wildlife.

I really think most of them are just too damned stubborn. Family land, been in their family for generations, family business, and they just don't want to give it up.

I just have to say too, businesses fold every day. I'm sure the owners of those businesses wish it was as simple as just moving.

Hold......

While some of these farmers and ranchers may hold some mountain property they are not farming and grazing the mountains.

 

[WrestlinganJudo]

176 sheep killed by wolves in 'freak' incident - KTVB.COM
www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/2014/07/02/11975053/
KTVB
Aug 22, 2013 - So far, they've had hundreds of sheep, several Great Pyrenees guard dogs, and even a horse killed by wolves in the last few months.

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4 - Carnivora
carnivoraforum.com › Carnivora › Zoology › Interspecific Conflict
Jul 26, 2012 - 16 posts - ‎5 authors
4 wolves were recorded killing 11 pyranese sheep guarding dogs. ... http://www.livestockguardiandogs.com/4-wolves-kill-11-lgd-s-what-s- ...

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Sheep Production • View topic - Wolves vs LGDs: future of LGD ...
edgefieldsheep.com › ... › Sheep and shepherding › Guardian animals
Apr 18, 2010 - 15 posts - ‎8 authors
The tragic loss: the wolves made mincemeat of his Great Pyr LGD's in addition to ... Federal wildlife officers killed four of the five wolves that got into .... and since then we have been waiting for 11 years for the litigation to end ...

 

[Madmick]

This is why Wolves destroy domesticated dogs-- even "game pits":