A wolf versus a dog (discuss please)

[bad seed]

I'm not so sure that they "wreck wolves daily".

It's possible that the dog acts as a deterrent, adding one more hazard to overcome for the wolf.

Same way my dog defends against thieves.

sure, 90% of the time a wolf will simply avoid the risky confrontation. But when they do, it usually ends badly for them.

Now whats this rumbling about huge wolves killing dogs in the northwest? Looks like human weakness has made wolves in that region huge and bold. Those shepherds will need to upgrade their dogs to the superior Eurasian steppe breeds.

 

[Real_Magi]

sure, 90% of the time a wolf will simply avoid the risky confrontation. But when they do, it usually ends badly for them.


Now whats this rumbling about huge wolves killing dogs in the northwest? Looks like human weakness has made wolves in that region huge and bold. Those shepherds will need to upgrade their dogs to the superior Eurasian steppe breeds.

That pic doesn't mean anything. There are pictures floating around of a donkey killing a cougar too, which was proven as bullshit. Unless it's a documented event, it's meaningless. The thing that makes that pic very suspicious is the fact that wolves are pack animals. The chances of a lone wolf wandering into another predator's domain are nearly non existent.

 

[WrestlinganJudo]

sure, 90% of the time a wolf will simply avoid the risky confrontation. But when they do, it usually ends badly for them.

Now whats this rumbling about huge wolves killing dogs in the northwest? Looks like human weakness has made wolves in that region huge and bold. Those shepherds will need to upgrade their dogs to the superior Eurasian steppe breeds.

They are and it's not working.

 

[WrestlinganJudo]

Wolves need to stay healthy to survive, so they wouldn't be as willing to fight and would most probably run instead of fighting an big aggressive dog. I couldn't see a dog beating a wolf 1vs1 except maybe a Caucasian shepherd dog. They seem more like bears than dogs.

The new big wolves are reported to be targeting dogs as they are seen as competition.

 

[Flemmy Stardust]

Huh

It doesn't quite work like that. Dogs are not used to hunt things individually. How would a Rhodesian ridge back fare against a l lion? They were bred for hunting lions after all.

It's hard to overstate the amount of " drive" or tenacity that a wild animal brings to the table also. Having to chase down and kill every single meal that you eat tends seperate the wheat from the chaff quickly. Hell , a ra**** will give most dogs twice its size more than it can handle. I don't see your Irish wolfhound " destroying" a healthy wolf anywhere close to its size.

You're not going to find a wolf anywhere close to its size.

 

[Real_Magi]

The new big wolves are reported to be targeting dogs as they are seen as competition.

Yeah supposedly all of those wolves are massive too, some sort of new, super breed. And once again, they're not travelling alone, two or three will come in, kill the dogs, then run off with some livestock. Some of that seems like farmers just wanting a reason to be able to kill wolves without repercussion though honestly.

 

[bad seed]

The new big wolves are reported to be targeting dogs as they are seen as competition.

northwest wolves are the new gamebred pit

 

[WrestlinganJudo]

Nope. A 1-1 wolf victory is completely dependent on whether he is fighting an in shape 'working breed' dog or not.

In a 1-1 battle, a wolf would merc any dog of any type bred through pet lines. And the vast majority of dogs you see were either bred specifically to be pets or are mutt offspring of dogs bred to be pets.

'Working line' dogs are in every sense completely different animals than dogs bred to be pets.

Someone already mentioned the Pyrenees. A large, fit working line Pyrenees would match up quite nicely with a wolf. And a good working line Ovcharka or Turkish Khangal would most likely kill a wolf- or even 2 wolves.

Most of these breeds to not make very good pets. Because they are very hostile to anything they perceive as a threat. Which is pretty much anything or anyone.

The USDA has given up on the Pyrenees, they are getting killed nowdays. Here is your Kangal

 

[Chaos Spawn]

A few breeds, like a Dogo or game bred Pit could take a wolf. Even though wolves are strong with a large bite force, dog fights are about gameness and tenacity. Even wolves and bears will tuck tale and run if they feel like they're taking too much damage. It's instinctual for them. Dogs bred for combat or hunting that have true "gameness" will never give up, even with major lacerations, broken bones, or an eyeball ripped out. Dog fights are fights of attrition and the most tenacious dog wins. If you watch wolves fight with each other, one will almost always give up and submit before things get too bloody.

There are numerous documented fights between Pits and wolves out west in the 1800's, with the Pits winning, much like the movie above. There are a couple of books written by dog fighters that discuss this, I'm trying to recall the names of the books.

this guy gets it.

im pretty sure that the author you are thinking of is dr carl semencic. he wrote 3 volumes in the 80's and 90's on the subject matter of fighting dog breeds. one was a crossover outlining gladiator breeds that worked well as personal protection dogs. they are all interesting and informative reads. and before anybody gets their panties twisted - no the author neither advocates nor promotes dog fighting (neither do i for that matter). most of this information, and most of the breeds were relatively unknown in north america when his first book was published.

this type of argument pops up all the time, though it usually centers around a member of a big working breed like a rotty, or one of the larger rare/exotic flock guardians like an ovcharka actually being the superior fighter that could wreck any pitbull ever bred. naturally this crosses over into pitbulls and the other fighting breeds vs what the author terms as "an astonishing number of wild animal species". the author doesn't spend much time debunking this argument, because his reasoning is pretty sound logically.

as it is, fighting dogs isn't an activity based on bravado, or in any way breed loyal. on the most serious level, it is a betting man's game. it is and always has been about money. if a rottweiler, tibetan mastiff, or wolf was the best at one on one animal combat, then those would be the dogs and/or the animals that the pitmen would be showing up with and entering into the fights. the reason they are not is very simple; because those other breeds and/or animals would not stand a chance.

i know everyone is tired of hearing the tired clich

 

[WrestlinganJudo]

There is the idea floating around that the Wolves are larger than in the past that the puppies are getting a better start in life. They are getting better nutrition at a young age creating bigger adults. Lack of competition. They are also going after the Mt Lions in the Bitteroot mountains. The reintroduced wolves are bigger and have better health than the populations that proceeded them.

 

[ThinkGreen]

I think a single dog can beat a single wolf due to wolves mainly hunting in packs. It'd have to be a big ass dog though.

 

[Real_Magi]

northwest wolves are the new gamebred pit

They are certainly more willing to engage the guard dogs and have been causing hell for the local farmers. They also seem much larger on average based on reports and pictures of the wolves they've hunted. But it really does seem like alot of farmers are exaggerating so they can kill more wolves without getting in trouble.

 

[bad seed]

Yeah supposedly all of those wolves are massive too, some sort of new, super breed. And once again, they're not travelling alone, two or three will come in, kill the dogs, then run off with some livestock. Some of that seems like farmers just wanting a reason to be able to kill wolves without repercussion though honestly.

time for plan B

They are certainly more willing to engage the guard dogs and have been causing hell for the local farmers. They also seem much larger on average based on reports and pictures of the wolves they've hunted. But it really does seem like alot of farmers are exaggerating so they can kill more wolves without getting in trouble.

I was reading through some comments in news stories about this, and theres a lot of arguing back and forth; seems people are really passionate about this issue. One of the points some people were making is that these inexperienced ranchers were cutting costs by buying dogs of unproven lineage. A true flock defender capable of killing wolves costs thousands of dollars and are only available from specialized breeders, most overseas. There is also substantial training involved.

 

[WrestlinganJudo]

Yeah supposedly all of those wolves are massive too, some sort of new, super breed. And once again, they're not travelling alone, two or three will come in, kill the dogs, then run off with some livestock. Some of that seems like farmers just wanting a reason to be able to kill wolves without repercussion though honestly.

Even the USDA is getting involved it has gotten so bad. The states with the big wolves have opened up culling.

 

[WrestlinganJudo]

time for plan B

I was reading through some comments in news stories about this, and theres a lot of arguing back and forth; seems people are really passionate about this issue. One of the points some people were making is that these inexperienced ranchers were cutting costs by buying dogs of unproven lineage. A true flock defender capable of killing wolves costs thousands of dollars and are only available from specialized breeders, most overseas. There is also substantial training involved.

They have been getting dogs from Europe. It has been bad enough the USDA has been studying breeds to bring in.

 

[Real_Magi]

this guy gets it.

im pretty sure that the author you are thinking of is dr carl semencic. he wrote 3 volumes in the 80's and 90's on the subject matter of fighting dog breeds. one was a crossover outlining gladiator breeds that worked well as personal protection dogs. they are all interesting and informative reads. and before anybody gets their panties twisted - no the author neither advocates nor promotes dog fighting (neither do i for that matter). most of this information, and most of the breeds were relatively unknown in north america when his first book was published.

this type of argument pops up all the time, though it usually centers around a member of a big working breed like a rotty, or one of the larger rare/exotic flock guardians like an ovcharka actually being the superior fighter that could wreck any pitbull ever bred. naturally this crosses over into pitbulls and the other fighting breeds vs what the author terms as "an astonishing number of wild animal species". the author doesn't spend much time debunking this argument, because his reasoning is pretty sound logically.

as it is, fighting dogs isn't an activity based on bravado, or in any way breed loyal. on the most serious level, it is a betting man's game. it is and always has been about money. if a rottweiler, tibetan mastiff, or wolf was the best at one on one animal combat, then those would be the dogs and/or the animals that the pitmen would be showing up with and entering into the fights. the reason they are not is very simple; because those other breeds and/or animals would not stand a chance.

i know everyone is tired of hearing the tired clich

 

[Dizzy]

WASHINGTON, March 12 2014 - USDA researchers are testing larger breeds of

 

[bad seed]

you know, the breeding evolution of a pit bull from his mastiff roots is a lot like turning Ubereem into Sakuraba.

Take a big hulk with no heart, shrink him down and remove all instincts for self preservation.

 

[Real_Magi]

I really don't understand why the farmers live in areas where the wolves are larger, more willing to engage, and higher in numbers. Why would you try to run a business in an area that's the absolute worst for running that business?

 

[WrestlinganJudo]

Wolves is the key word there. They're pack animals. Of course they're going to be more of a threat than a single predator.

Things are different now, the methods that used to work aren't anymore. The wolves are much larger than they were in the past, possibly because of less competition. These are not the wolves your grandad dealt with.