A Basic Study of Angles and Good Footwork (Gif Heavy)

[Discipulus]

What's your background a guy? And do I know you on Facebook? (PM me!)

 

[devante]

He looked pretty much the same to me. He made the same mistakes as usual, most notably his constant pointing of his left foot far outside the opponent's rear foot (resulting in squaring up). He likes it because it lets him land his right hand faster by shortening the path, can be done with a slip to the left and gives him a way to exit. But it makes him very hittable and leaves him in no position to follow up with any good strikes. Opponents are free to counter afterwards. He also does too much hopping for my taste.

If you ask me, Oliveira had the right idea with his footwork and techniques but wasn't skilled enough to pull it off. He was throwing a good amount of jabs, but his jab frankly sucks and Edgar was able to counter it several times with pretty hard right hands (that would have been harder if he didn't point his damn lead foot away). Oliveira tried to use front kicks to keep Edgar away, but he only did it when Edgar was circling instead of coming in and he only threw them with his rear leg, plus his technique was bad. I love how Oliveira was trying to work the clinch when Edgar got in close, but he didn't break Edgar's posture or use his forearms to get any real control so Edgar could either punch out of it or get a takedown before it was secured. I loved the elbows he used a couple times, but he only threw like 2.
Basically, Oliveira did a good job holding his ground for the most part and had some really smart ideas, but not the skills to implement them. His stance is front foot heavy, his technique is sloppy and he wasn't always throwing the right things at the right times.

In my opinion, the key to beating Edgar is to control the range by holding your ground with jabs and teeps when he's rushing, then wear him down with leg kicks on the side he's circling to when he's using that hopping lateral footwork. His footwork really makes him hittable.

this is a key point when people are assessing a fighter, whether a pro/ammy on tv/live event or a guy in their gym; recognizing the holes in someone's game takes a certain skill, making strategies/picking tech takes a certain amount of skill, actually enacting these things takes a certain amount of skill. A lot of people can do the first two, the problem is the last one; it doesn't matter if the book is out on someone if a) you can't read or b) you lack the intelligence to process it.

it is very clear what you need to do to beat edgar, fighters see it/coaches see it/we see it; but you still have to have the tech skills/tools-physical skills/tooks AND the mindset/character/discipline to use them. If my weak points don't play to your strengths, you may not be able to take adv of them; in fact you may end up getting beat the f*ck up. I sparred a guy, ask saamag about this, he was new to the group (only stayed a little while); he was watching me spar and going on and on about all the sh*t I do wrong and how I am open for this and that, an how he would see this or that coming. Not only could he not counter me the way he said he would, he may have seen sh*t coming; but he couldn't do a damn thing about it when it did. An I am not saying I am a bad ass, I am making a point; I don't assume that cause I see an opening that I can instantly exploit it. But I notice a lot of people seem to think this way, not taking into account their lack of ability skill discipline or character.

what good is it recognizing a guy is open for a left hook, when u don't have one or can't throw a good one; what good is it to see a guy doesn't respond to pressure well, when you don't apply it. What good is it to see a guy is open to leg kicks, if you don't consistently throw them; its great you can see it, but it's no good if YOU can't enact it.

as brother naazim said (Hopkins guy), we all know ali fights w/his hands down; now go get him. What he means is everyone sees the hole, but hardly anyone can exploit it at all; much less to the point of winning.

olivera had the right idea, maybe even the right physical tools; but didn't have the tech ones to use it or the discipline to stick to it or the iq to do it at the right time.

 

[a guy]

Alright, there's a lot of nonsense talk about Weidman's knockout of Silva so I'm gonna do a little explaining of why Weidman deserves a LOT more credit than he's getting from most people. First thing's first, Silva was clowning because Weidman wasn't giving him anything to work with. Silva doesn't look spectacular striking unless he gets opponents to overcommit in the standup or otherwise get out of position. This is common knowledge. What Weidman did was take him down immediately and show that he could land some serious shots on the ground and refused to be controlled in Silva's body triangle in closed guard. When they got up, Chris stayed in range and tracked Silva. He stayed in his face and gave him no openings. As a result, Anderson had to taunt more and more and even attack first to try to get Weidman coming at him. When Weidman did attack, it was with one or two shots that left very little openings and were impossible to time because he had no rhythm. However, Weidman was able to time Silva's footwork.

For example, in this gif, Weidman connects with a right hand. But notice how Anderson moves when it happens. Silva is very fond of pivoting to move his head and move backwards, he rarely actually moves straight back. He mostly steps his lead foot back as he does so, switching stances because it allows him to cover more distance. Weidman sees Silva baiting him with his hands on his hips. Notice that Silva's right foot is forward, meaning he will likely pivot on his left foot, moving to his own left (Weidman's right). Thus, Weidman comes forward and when he throws his right hand, he steps his right foot off to the side to cut Silva off and land the shot while also switching stances. This shows great anticipation, as it allows him to both land the shot AND angle off to his left immediately after landing. That's smart stuff.

This second gif shows the type of pressure I'm talking about. Weidman stays right in front of Silva and taunts back when Silva taunts him. When Silva attacks, he hops back a little to avoid taking damage then immediately gets back in front of Silva. Notice how Weidman is actually also baiting Silva by having his weight forward, so he can pull it back as soon as Silva attacks. He even does this by jabbing and leaning forward so that he can pull away from Silva's counter left straight in that gif.

Eventually, Weidman saw an opening left by Silva that he believed he could really exploit and even though it took 4 punches, he did it.

The short version is Weidman stayed in Silva's face while leaving him no openings, Silva did everything he could to bait Weidman into reaching, but Weidman covered enough ground and disrupted his movement to land the knockout. Here's the gif:

Two things happen immediately in that gif: 1. Weidman pivots to his left with a jab to take the picture perfect example of an inside angle and gets Silva fully square. 2. As this happens, Silva steps his left foot to the left and squats a little, making himself even more square and making himself less mobile.

At this point, I don't think anyone in the world could resist trying to punch Silva. His back is near the cage, he's completely square, his hands are down (they don't look threatening) and his head is RIGHT THERE. Weidman decides to go for it and truly commits to attacking with strikes for the first time in the fight.

He throws a jab and a hard cross right behind it that should have taken out anyone in mma who isn't Silva, but of course Silva was planning to move his head the whole time and has the skill to do it with a pivot. As the right misses, Silva's footwork has actually put him at an inside angle with Weidman in a pretty bad position. So everyone saying his footwork was off should really watch it at work in this gif. It's still beautiful. But, notice how he moves the same way he did before in the gif above when Weidman landed on him.

Weidman, in a pretty awful position, throws an improvised backhand that ended up being the key to the fight. Now a bunch of people read that great Jack Slack article (that article might even be called prophetic haha) and assumed Weidman must have been planning this his whole camp. Personally, I'm not sure. He DEFINITELY didn't plan to throw it when he started. Whether or not he trained it as a backup measure for similar situations is up for debate. I like to think that he at least understood its function when he threw it. From his knockout of Munoz and his patience in this fight, the one word I would use to describe Weidman's standup is intelligent. Maybe not technically perfect, but his last two knockouts have been really well set up and both capitalized on specific tendencies of his opponents. That leads me to believe that the backhand wasn't some desperate flail at a legend, but at the very worst a feint to deter Silva as Weidman tried to regain his balance and throw the left hook, at best an intelligently thrown shot to disrupt Silva's timing and make him move to the wrong side. Honestly, in some ways it very closely resembles a soft right hand.

As the backhand comes, Silva performs another small pivot to the other side. While this ordinarily should have caused a left hook to sail by an inch or two short, it actually lines him up in front of Weidman (though both of them have their feet way out of position) Weidman steps his left foot forward right towards Silva's center as he throws the left hook. One important thing to note is that Weidman brought his right foot with him as he threw the cross and the backhanded right, though not to the same extent as before when he switched stances, because this time he wants to unload. This actually works to give him the ability to step really far into the left hook so that he can cover the distance needed and land the fight-finishing blow. Note that at the time of contact, Weidman is at an inside angle, Silva is square, leaning over his feet, off balance and moving towards the left hook. But, if Weidman didn't fully commit, didn't bring his right foot forward, chose to attack at a less opportune time, didn't step his left foot all the way in with the left hook and didn't use the backhand to fuck everything up, Silva would have looked as untouchable as a ghost like always.

In the end, I think Weidman fought a perfect fight for what he's able to do. He forced Silva to work harder and harder to make the bait attractive enough to bite, and when Weidman bit he did it with commitment and covered enough distance with his footwork to pull off one hell of an upset.

 

[a guy]

this is a key point when people are assessing a fighter, whether a pro/ammy on tv/live event or a guy in their gym; recognizing the holes in someone's game takes a certain skill, making strategies/picking tech takes a certain amount of skill, actually enacting these things takes a certain amount of skill. A lot of people can do the first two, the problem is the last one; it doesn't matter if the book is out on someone if a) you can't read or b) you lack the intelligence to process it.

it is very clear what you need to do to beat edgar, fighters see it/coaches see it/we see it; but you still have to have the tech skills/tools-physical skills/tooks AND the mindset/character/discipline to use them. If my weak points don't play to your strengths, you may not be able to take adv of them; in fact you may end up getting beat the f*ck up. I sparred a guy, ask saamag about this, he was new to the group (only stayed a little while); he was watching me spar and going on and on about all the sh*t I do wrong and how I am open for this and that, an how he would see this or that coming. Not only could he not counter me the way he said he would, he may have seen sh*t coming; but he couldn't do a damn thing about it when it did. An I am not saying I am a bad ass, I am making a point; I don't assume that cause I see an opening that I can instantly exploit it. But I notice a lot of people seem to think this way, not taking into account their lack of ability skill discipline or character.

what good is it recognizing a guy is open for a left hook, when u don't have one or can't throw a good one; what good is it to see a guy doesn't respond to pressure well, when you don't apply it. What good is it to see a guy is open to leg kicks, if you don't consistently throw them; its great you can see it, but it's no good if YOU can't enact it.

as brother naazim said (Hopkins guy), we all know ali fights w/his hands down; now go get him. What he means is everyone sees the hole, but hardly anyone can exploit it at all; much less to the point of winning.

olivera had the right idea, maybe even the right physical tools; but didn't have the tech ones to use it or the discipline to stick to it or the iq to do it at the right time.

Really good post. It takes serious intelligence and discipline for a coach and fighter to come together and identify a weakness then develop the tools to exploit it, especially if the tools aren't already there or aren't sufficient. It's easy to say you should just jab Edgar like I did. It's fucking hard to be a coach and recognize that, then go teach your fighter how to do it without eating that right hand Edgar loves to throw.

 

[Azam]

Alright, there's a lot of nonsense talk about Weidman's knockout of Silva so I'm gonna do a little explaining of why Weidman deserves a LOT more credit than he's getting from most people....

Tbh, I don't think the combo Weidman threw was intentionally done so or even something that may have been worked on - but I think it was rather a result of instinct to throw - but tbh even though you have to give Weidman credit - I think Anderson lost as a result of his own undoing - although he tends to be like that in many fights, he was uncharacteristically prolonged in his doing so in this fight & I feel he did so because he wanted to establish mental superiority as he felt vulnerable prior to the fight & the takedown in round 1 compounded this - felt as though the mental edge was in weidman's corner & felt the need to bring it back to his court & I believe in the action of doing so believed his own hype & suffered for it.

Although if there is a rematch - I think Anderson would take it & not make the same mistake twice.

 

[JeetKunDoGuy]

Oh no...not this thread...not another Anderson/Weidman debate...noooooooo!

 

[a guy]

What about Eddie Wineland? I just watched (and rewatched) his last fight with Brad Pickett, and I was thoroughly impressed with his defensive and offensive footwork. I couldn't find a video obviously, but he was constantly taking angles, using lateral motion, utilizing feints and capitalizing on his opponents offence to land some really nice counters. He was very active with his footwork but was good at staying in range to land shots. At one point Rogan even commented that his footwork is reminiscent of Cruz's, but I think Wineland has better footwork; less jazz and more subtlety. He also maintains great posture. And I love the way he uses the jab to control distance. He seems to really use the jab the way it's meant to be used. All around I think he's quickly becoming one of my favorite fighters to watch in the UFC...

Well I'm finally getting around to your request with an analysis of Wineland's footwork.



The actions starts at about 18 seconds in when you see Wineland use a very nice pull counter to drop his opponent with a cross. He shows what would normally be good footwork by hopping off to his right, but unfortunately the other guy was on the ground and Wineland would have been better off staying in range that time, but it's great that he doesn't stand there to admire his work. He gets out. My only criticism of this first sequence is that his lead foot is pointed off a little too far to his own left, but the opponent isn't facing him properly either and it shortens the path of his right hand.

Then, at 0:22 you'll see him land a right hand and angle off to his left. The next time he throws a right, it is a superman punch (though he didn't really fake the kick much). The opponent tries to circle to the right, but that's exactly what Wineland wants so he lands the punch hard and rushes the guy, landing a right hook from southpaw in the process. Seeing the opponent is hurt, he rushes in to drop some bombs.

Next, he lands a really clean uppercut from the outside foot position against a southpaw. But the really great part is how he closes the combination with a jab as he steps his right foot out to the right to cut an angle and avoid the counter right hook of his opponent. You may be noticing a pattern, his footwork constantly takes him out of the way of counter shots when he's done throwing.

40 seconds in, he lands an overhand right and hops off to the right to avoid his opponents punch. Once again, his defensive footwork makes him very hard to counter.

At 1:05, he uses a right straight to the body while stepping to an inside angle. The opponent gets dropped by the body punch, but if he didn't Wineland still would have been in an excellent position to finish.

At 1:40 he uses his footwork to stuff a shot very early, keeping his hips back and stopping the takedown without ever being tied up. The opponent gets up and tries to exchange, but Wineland drops him. It's important to note that Wineland is actually in a bad position here. He's pretty square, but so is his opponent. He wins the exchange by having more technical punches and weight shift that causes his head to move out of the way of the opponent's shots. He does show good footwork by pivoting out after the combination, but this time there aren't any shots to avoid because the other guy is down.

at 2:06, when Wineland starts rushing his opponent, notice that he maintains very good form while moving forward quickly and avoids reaching. That takes good footwork.

The sequence at 2:10 is really cool. The opponent tries to kick Wineland, so he circles away from it and catches it. He continues circling while holding the leg and punching until the opponent falls. By then, he moved more than 180 degrees.

This next highlight is mostly the same stuff, but there are a few things it shows that I wanna talk about.



At 1:06, we see Wineland using some nice footwork to disguise a right hand lead. He hops left and rotates his trunk to fake a right and sees that Jorgensen doens't respond. As a result, he hops back to his right and loads the right hand before throwing it as Jorgensen turns into it. Jorgensen tries to catch him with a left hook but Wineland is moving away from it and lands a much cleaner shot. He then ducks and steps back out to his right, exiting on an angle as always.

Around 1:11, he lands a nice counter right as Jorgensen leaps in before pivoting off to the side with a jab. His control of range there is nice as he is just close enough to be unaffected by Jorgensen's leaping jab, but close enough to land the right as Jorgensen moves into it.

He lands a similar counter at 1:28 but uses it against a leg kick instead of a jab.

He gets a great jab knockdown at 2:06 as he slips Jorgensen's jab.

Finally, a gif of his knockout of Jorgensen, one of my favorite knockouts.

He circles to his left with his jab to line up his right hand and blast it through Jorgensen's defenses while avoiding Jorgensen's left hand. It's a beautiful right straight that lands and catches Jorgensen square, splits his guard and knocks him out.

Overall, I really like Wineland. I just don't like how square he gets. He gets away with it because he does it at a range where his technical straight punches will beat hooks in speed and come inside them and his head movement as he punches keeps him safe from other straight shots from less technical opponents. Also, he never stays vulnerable for long and likes getting square because it allows him to hop out either to the left or right with ease. This all comes together to make him very difficult to hit, in the head at least. His body is pretty big target when he gets square so someone could probably hit that, or a similarly skilled boxer with better positioning could catch him in an exchange. However, his fantastic jab, solid technical punching (with weight transfer that leads to head movement) and lateral movement after engaging make him difficult to counter on the way in or out. The jab keeps you worried, gets in your face and messes you up, the head movement plus control of range (keeping you at the perfect distance to land straight shots) makes him elusive in exchanges then the footwork (in either direction, it's hard to predict) takes him away from your strikes when he's done.

 

[a guy]

Tbh, I don't think the combo Weidman threw was intentionally done so or even something that may have been worked on - but I think it was rather a result of instinct to throw - but tbh even though you have to give Weidman credit - I think Anderson lost as a result of his own undoing - although he tends to be like that in many fights, he was uncharacteristically prolonged in his doing so in this fight & I feel he did so because he wanted to establish mental superiority as he felt vulnerable prior to the fight & the takedown in round 1 compounded this - felt as though the mental edge was in weidman's corner & felt the need to bring it back to his court & I believe in the action of doing so believed his own hype & suffered for it.

Although if there is a rematch - I think Anderson would take it & not make the same mistake twice.

I stand by my assessment that what Silva was doing is a direct result of Weidman's pressure. I agree that what Anderson did played a part in costing him the loss, but he did what he did BECAUSE of Weidman. Whether he wanted to establish superiority emotionally or he wanted to bait Weidman (which I believe is the case) is mostly irrelevant because either way it comes back to Weidman being in control.

 

[Azam]

I stand by my assessment that what Silva was doing is a direct result of Weidman's pressure. I agree that what Anderson did played a part in costing him the loss, but he did what he did BECAUSE of Weidman. Whether he wanted to establish superiority emotionally or he wanted to bait Weidman (which I believe is the case) is mostly irrelevant because either way it comes back to Weidman being in control.

I'm not so sure, because he was showboating even when Weidman didn't do anything - this was because momentarily Weidman was affected by the taunts/showboating (also followed by kicks that Weidman didn't really respond to) this is why his corner were pissed at the end of the first round & were essentially telling him to snap out of it & punch him in the middle of the chest as we all heard - which he did in the latter part of 2nd round - I think. I think Anderson was already nervous coming into this & Weidman's confidence especially early on affected him - at the end of the day, like I said you have to give Weidman his credit but Anderson Anderson'd himself lol --- I think if there is a rematch...Anderson will probably walk away with the belt again, provided if he wants to fight Weidman again which it looked like he didn't.

 

[a guy]

I'm not so sure, because he was showboating even when Weidman didn't do anything - this was because momentarily Weidman was affected by the taunts/showboating (also followed by kicks that Weidman didn't really respond to) this is why his corner were pissed at the end of the first round & were essentially telling him to snap out of it & punch him in the middle of the chest as we all heard - which he did in the latter part of 2nd round - I think. I think Anderson was already nervous coming into this & Weidman's confidence especially early on affected him - at the end of the day, like I said you have to give Weidman his credit but Anderson Anderson'd himself lol --- I think if there is a rematch...Anderson will probably walk away with the belt again, provided if he wants to fight Weidman again which it looked like he didn't.

That's the point. He was taunting because Weidman didn't do anything. He NEEDED Weidman to do something to win the fight, but all Weidman did was bait him right back. There are several times where Weidman even imitates Silva's taunts. At one point Silva claps, so Weidman claps too. I edited my original post above with 2 more gifs. In the second one, you'll see Silva wave Weidman on then Weidman wave him on, and Silva responds by rushing in with a pretty wild 2 punch combination that Chris pulls back from. When Anderson taunts, he expects opponents to attack. Not to taunt and bait him back. That's why he took it to another level. Anderson got a taste of his own medicine and couldn't make Weidman do what he wanted.

Also, if you watch the fight, Anderson only really picks up the showboating after Weidman attacks him. He was trying to encourage the attacks in the hope that they would get more committed, but they never did.

Weidman was too patient and too smart to throw anything that didn't leave him in position to pull back or cut to an angle. He didn't get hit clean in the face by Silva once in that fight and it's because he wouldn't leave openings that he wasn't prepared to immediately defend. If anything, Weidman anderson'd Anderson.

 

[Azam]

That's the point. He was taunting because Weidman didn't do anything. He NEEDED Weidman to do something to win the fight, but all Weidman did was bait him right back. There are several times where Weidman even imitates Silva's taunts. At one point Silva claps, so Weidman claps too. I edited my original post above with 2 more gifs. In the second one, you'll see Silva wave Weidman on then Weidman wave him on, and Silva responds by rushing in with a pretty wild 2 punch combination that Chris pulls back from. When Anderson taunts, he expects opponents to attack. Not to taunt and bait him back. That's why he took it to another level. Anderson got a taste of his own medicine and couldn't make Weidman do what he wanted.

Also, if you watch the fight, Anderson only really picks up the showboating after Weidman attacks him. He was trying to encourage the attacks in the hope that they would get more committed, but they never did.

Weidman was too patient and too smart to throw anything that didn't leave him in position to pull back or cut to an angle. He didn't get hit clean in the face by Silva once in that fight and it's because he wouldn't leave openings that he wasn't prepared to immediately defend. If anything, Weidman anderson'd Anderson.

Although Weidman deserves credit, like I've repeatedly stated - I think you might be giving him too much credit if that makes sense --- it was after Weidman took him down instantly he resorted to showboating - also I'd give your point more credence & indirectly Weidman - but there were a few times where Weidman did get baited into attacking or even slightly overextending like the first gif in your post (although he managed to move off centre after) - but notice Anderson really didn't do anything in that whole movement & even after he moved off-centre, if his goal truly was to make him overcommit or bait him, so that he could counter him - he never acted on it - even when Anderson snuffed the 2nd attempt at a takedown from Weidman - he didn't really do anything, just let Weidman go...


I think you're also trying to put sense to Silva's display - when in reality I don't think there was much sense in it - think he simply got carried away with the showboating & there was no real tactic to it but just simple mind games - there might have been initially but it went pretty quickly....I'd point out your last gif to prove this point - does Silva honestly look like he's trying to bait Weidman in that gift at all? He stands completely square & showboats in a similar manner to Prince Naseem, if he really was interested in provoking/baiting or making Weidman over-extended & counter - he could have positioned himself at any time (like he has in the past) to counter any one of those initial punches or even position himself better, which he could have done quite easily if baiting & countering Weidman was his goal - which it looks like to me it wasn't, instead of showboating and maneuvering himself into a poorer posture, from which there was no return defensively - you'd think with his striking prowess he knows how to position himself to bait & counter - but it's quite clear in 2 of the gifs you posted that he didn't position himself in that manner - why - because that's probably not want he had in mind...so the question is why didn't he.....because he got caught up in showboating & didn't respect his opponent enough aka anderson anderson'd anderson lol.


I think Weidman's confidence unnerved Anderson & this is why he reacted the way he did - I'd also say uncharacteristically so - usually he does showboat - but not to the degree he did, I think what gave it away was the reaction on his face as he walked to the cage & prior to touching gloves --- it actually might explain the rumours about Silva & Weidman the first time round.

I think if Silva fights Weidman again - it will probably go Silva's way.

 

[a guy]

Although Weidman deserves credit, like I've repeatedly stated - I think you might be giving him too much credit if that makes sense --- it was after Weidman took him down instantly he resorted to showboating - also I'd give your point more credence & indirectly Weidman - but there were a few times where Weidman did get baited into attacking or even slightly overextending like the first gif in your post (although he managed to move off centre after) - but notice Anderson really didn't do anything in that whole movement & even after he moved off-centre, if his goal truly was to make him overcommit or bait him, so that he could counter him - he never acted on it - even when Anderson snuffed the 2nd attempt at a takedown from Weidman - he didn't really do anything, just let Weidman go...

In that first gif, Silva tries to counter with a left hand but Weidman connects first then moves out. Anderson tried to counter several times in the fight actually, primarily with a straight left but he never managed to do it. It missed every single time, so he stopped trying it after the first round because he realized it wasn't working. That's why he resorted to leg kicks and head kicks. He tried to capitalize on Weidman's front foot heavy stance by punishing the lead leg, and even tried to pull his lead hand away to land a right front kick at one point. None of it was working, except for the leg kicks which were mostly at least partially checked.

As for the takedown, on EVERY attempt that he stuffed Silva tried to grab a double collar tie. Literally every one, I just checked again. He also tried to reach for it when he got Weidman to cover up in front of him for a brief moment in the first round, but Silva never secured it. As a result, he pivoted off the cage to his right every time and kept moving.

I think you're also trying to put sense to Silva's display - when in reality I don't think there was much sense in it - think he simply got carried away with the showboating & there was no real tactic to it but just simple mind games - there might have been initially but it went pretty quickly....I'd point out your last gif to prove this point - does Silva honestly look like he's trying to bait Weidman in that gift at all? He stands completely square & showboats in a similar manner to Prince Naseem, if he really was interested in provoking/baiting or making Weidman over-extended & counter - he could have positioned himself at any time (like he has in the past) to counter any one of those initial punches or even position himself better, which he could have done quite easily if baiting & countering Weidman was his goal - which it looks like to me it wasn't, instead of showboating and maneuvering himself into a poorer posture, from which there was no return defensively - you'd think with his striking prowess he knows how to position himself to bait & counter - but it's quite clear in 2 of the gifs you posted that he didn't position himself in that manner - why - because that's probably not want he had in mind...so the question is why didn't he.....because he got caught up in showboating & didn't respect his opponent enough aka anderson anderson'd anderson lol.

In my opinion, his showboating went to an extreme because it wasn't working. He's never needed it to work as much as he did in that fight, so he's never gone to that level. Maybe he was angry, maybe he felt the need to assert dominance, maybe he wanted to bait like I've been saying, it doesn't matter. All of those things are still caused by what Weidman was doing. He wasn't in position to counter in the second gif because he didn't plan on countering in that sequence. If he was planning anything, it was to get Chris in the habit of reaching by frustrating him and making the target look appealing, then taking it away. He wanted to give Weidman the impression that he could land shots, if only he could reach just a few more inches. As it turned out, Weidman COULD reach those extra inches with his improvised combination to disrupt Silva's movement and it resulted in the loss.

I won't pretend to know what the fighters were thinking and feeling, but I can see clearly what happened in the fight. It all makes sense considering Anderson's usual style/strategy and I can see what Weidman did to disrupt it, which led to Silva getting himself in bad positions (something he has done plenty of times in the past, he just never paid for it until now).

Would Silva win the rematch? I don't know. I'm not delusional enough to think Weidman is the better striker, but he can clearly win the striking. I really couldn't make a prediction for the rematch.

 

[Azam]

I think it might just be difference of view - maybe it was a mixture of what we're both saying - I have no idea tbh, like you said we can't read fighter's minds - I think it was caused less by Weidman & Anderson's own frailties probably because he was facing someone that was his kryptonite & he knew it - also I'd say he'd given Weidman plenty of impressions that he could land shots - It wouldn't make sense to keep repeatedly doing so - even when at times it made Weidman bite - I think the last gif had nothing to do at all with strategy & Silva was simply showboating...but that's just an opinion.

I'd go with Silva because he has much more experience & will probably be looking to avenge the lost - at least I would want to if I was TKO'd that way.

 

[a guy]

I think it might just be difference of view - maybe it was a mixture of what we're both saying - I have no idea tbh, like you said we can't read fighter's minds - I think it was caused less by Weidman & Anderson's own frailties probably because he was facing someone that was his kryptonite & he knew it - also I'd say he'd given Weidman plenty of impressions that he could land shots - It wouldn't make sense to keep repeatedly doing so - even when at times it made Weidman bite - I think the last gif had nothing to do at all with strategy & Silva was simply showboating...but that's just an opinion.

I'd go with Silva because he has much more experience & will probably be looking to avenge the lost - at least I would want to if I was TKO'd that way.

We can agree to disagree.

It does make sense to think Silva will come back like a monster ready to avenge his first UFC loss, but if his emotions got to him so much in this fight imagine how angry he could be in the rematch, or how focused he could be. It could go either way really. I hope it happens, I'm very interested to see.

 

[Azam]

We can agree to disagree.

It does make sense to think Silva will come back like a monster ready to avenge his first UFC loss, but if his emotions got to him so much in this fight imagine how angry he could be in the rematch, or how focused he could be. It could go either way really. I hope it happens, I'm very interested to see.

Funnily enough, no-one mentioned the technical masterpiece that Frankie put on - it was a breakdown analysts wet dream lol - Oliveira's poor posture is what kept getting him hit - it was awful to watch - at one point I was sure he'd get KO'd or TKO'd - I think if it had been 5 rounds probably would have ended that way - the lateral movement was bliss - funnily enough oliveira's coaches were telling him to throw more front kicks - I thought that was incredibly bad advice thought if anything they should be telling him to throw roundhouses.

 

[Discipulus]

Funnily enough, no-one mentioned the technical masterpiece that Frankie put on - it was a breakdown analysts wet dream lol - Oliveira's poor posture is what kept getting him hit - it was awful to watch - at one point I was sure he'd get KO'd or TKO'd - I think if it had been 5 rounds probably would have ended that way - the lateral movement was bliss - funnily enough oliveira's coaches were telling him to throw more front kicks - I thought that was incredibly bad advice thought if anything they should be telling him to throw roundhouses.

The real shame is that the controversy and magnitude of Silva's loss has completely overshadowed Swanson vs. Siver, which was an incredible fight. I was out of my seat when Cub hit that Harai Goshi to counter the takedown in round 2, and the shots he landed in round 3 were absolutely brutal. He gets wild, but he's actually pretty hard to hit cleanly, and he packs so much power that anyone's gonna think twice about trying to put him away.

I just wish he'd jab more. He threw a few more than usual against Siver, so maybe there's hope.

 

[a guy]

Funnily enough, no-one mentioned the technical masterpiece that Frankie put on - it was a breakdown analysts wet dream lol - Oliveira's poor posture is what kept getting him hit - it was awful to watch - at one point I was sure he'd get KO'd or TKO'd - I think if it had been 5 rounds probably would have ended that way - the lateral movement was bliss - funnily enough oliveira's coaches were telling him to throw more front kicks - I thought that was incredibly bad advice thought if anything they should be telling him to throw roundhouses.

That was a great fight. It was a lesson in distance control. Oliveira didn't have anything to control the range. He couldn't keep Edgar at bay with his jabs (mainly because of his posture and weight distribution) or kicks (not enough leg kicks plus he threw them at the wrong time, very bad front kicks, no actual teeps) and when Edgar got close, he couldn't win in the clinch. He always either got dumped, punched or if he was lucky Edgar would just duck out. In the last 30 seconds of the second round, he managed to keep Edgar at the end of his straight punches and kicks for a bit and was doing pretty well until he came forward to quickly and Edgar tied him up then took him down.

What I really liked that Edgar was doing is attacking with his right hand both over and under Oliveira's left arm. He knew that 99% of the time, when he came forward Oliveira would throw a strike with that arm, whether it be a jab, hook or elbow (should have been an uppercut, though). He took advantage of the opening he knew would be there and started timing the jab to land body shots under the elbow or overhand rights on top of the shoulder and Oliveira never figured it out, even though he got tagged with the same shot over and over. That double threat was smart by Edgar, and I like how he used the right body shot to left hook, then used the same body shot but used the left hook as a push on Oliveira's face to get a takedown.

 

[Azam]

The real shame is that the controversy and magnitude of Silva's loss has completely overshadowed Swanson vs. Siver, which was an incredible fight. I was out of my seat when Cub hit that Harai Goshi to counter the takedown in round 2, and the shots he landed in round 3 were absolutely brutal. He gets wild, but he's actually pretty hard to hit cleanly, and he packs so much power that anyone's gonna think twice about trying to put him away.

I just wish he'd jab more. He threw a few more than usual against Siver, so maybe there's hope.

That Harai Goshi was nice - I'm surprised we don't see more judo in the octagon...I'll be waiting to see if he gets a shot at Aldo.

 

[Azam]

That was a great fight. It was a lesson in distance control. Oliveira didn't have anything to control the range. He couldn't keep Edgar at bay with his jabs (mainly because of his posture and weight distribution) or kicks (not enough leg kicks plus he threw them at the wrong time, very bad front kicks, no actual teeps) and when Edgar got close, he couldn't win in the clinch. He always either got dumped, punched or if he was lucky Edgar would just duck out. In the last 30 seconds of the second round, he managed to keep Edgar at the end of his straight punches and kicks for a bit and was doing pretty well until he came forward to quickly and Edgar tied him up then took him down.

What I really liked that Edgar was doing is attacking with his right hand both over and under Oliveira's left arm. He knew that 99% of the time, when he came forward Oliveira would throw a strike with that arm, whether it be a jab, hook or elbow (should have been an uppercut, though). He took advantage of the opening he knew would be there and started timing the jab to land body shots under the elbow or overhand rights on top of the shoulder and Oliveira never figured it out, even though he got tagged with the same shot over and over. That double threat was smart by Edgar, and I like how he used the right body shot to left hook, then used the same body shot but used the left hook as a push on Oliveira's face to get a takedown.

I think it was more a lesson on proper posture - although Frankie controlled the distance quite well, the defining thing was the poor posture of Oliviera (leaning forward with head quite forward - making the critical distance much shorter - making it easier for Frankie to get his shots in) - preferably he should have focused on throwing more roundhouses rather than linear kicks, especially when someone is exhibiting a lot of lateral movement - also I think it helped that Edgar was smaller height wise - it's a lot harder to takedown or throw a smaller man of balance because the center of gravity is naturally lower - but your right he knew that those straights were coming from that hand & took advantage - very smart kept Oliveira guessing by changing levels - took advantage of Oliveira's striking faults nicely.

 

[a guy]

I think it was more a lesson on proper posture - although Frankie controlled the distance quite well, the defining thing was the poor posture of Oliviera (leaning forward with head quite forward - making the critical distance much shorter - making it easier for Frankie to get his shots in) - preferably he should have focused on throwing more roundhouses rather than linear kicks, especially when someone is exhibiting a lot of lateral movement - also I think it helped that Edgar was smaller height wise - it's a lot harder to takedown or throw a smaller man of balance because the center of gravity is naturally lower - but your right he knew that those straights were coming from that hand & took advantage - very smart kept Oliveira guessing by changing levels - took advantage of Oliveira's striking faults nicely.

I agree with you on the posture, it's just that the posture falls under the wide topic of distance control. However, you're exactly right that his poor posture was the main problem he had and it especially showed in his jabs, as well as other techniques.

I agree on the roundhouses as well. His problem is he didn't throw them when Edgar was moving laterally, he mostly threw them when Edgar was standing still or coming forward. This allowed Edgar to start catching them, especially when they got predictable. I remember one point where Oliveira landed a good leg kick, but then threw another a few seconds later that Edgar easily caught and used to drop him. He should have used roundhouses (primarily to the legs and head, body shots are easier to catch and Edgar is already great at catching kicks) when Edgar was circling, then linear kicks and punches when he got Edgar to stand still for a little.

Edgar fought a smart fight as the shorter man, Oliveira didn't fight a very good one as the taller man.