are you saying frankie edgar doesn't have good footwork
A Basic Study of Angles and Good Footwork (Gif Heavy)
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are you saying frankie edgar doesn't have good footwork
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He had quick feet, but that doesn't equal good footwork (which is what most people think anyway). To me his footwork is above average at best. Sure he come in and goes out of the pocket quickly, but it is a product of his speed rather than actual footwork.
It really isn't that good. It's excessive and leaves a lot of openings. What he has is good wrestling that causes opponents to play into the strengths of his style of movement. When the opponent can either take away the lateral movement or take away the wrestling for even a few seconds, he becomes very predictable and hittable. He moves a lot but his movement rarely leads to better positioning.
Thanks for introducing me to Makdessi, i won some money on him last week
Good shit! That was a hell of a knockout by the way. Really slick footwork by Makdessi.
Got this gif from Discipulus' article on BE: http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/9/2...-165-jones-vs-gustafsson-judo-chop/in/4043013
Anyway, what I think really stands out here is how Makdessi actually capitalizes on an EXTREMELY common footwork mistake by the Forte: side stepping without turning to face the opponent. A lot of guys (GSP, Edgar, Wineland all talked about in this thread, plus countless more) step forward and to their left to land the right hand with no pivot, thinking it takes them off center and lines up the right hand. That is partially true, but what it really accomplishes is getting BOTH fighters facing the wrong way, while leaving an opponent for either guy to make the adjustment by pivoting and take a very strong angle. Makdessi does just that. Instead of throwing immediately or retreating, he performs a very subtle pivot and steps his right foot back while dropping his weight onto it, then explodes that weight forward as he throws the right hand from a perfect inside angle. Forte's momentum from the miss keeps him stuck on the lead hip and in a horrible position to eat that counter right, both in relation to his own stance and in relation to Makdessi. Absolutely beautiful. I've been preaching about that exact counter for a long time (if you read the part about GSP vs Koscheck earlier in this thread, I describe it briefly) and to see it in action was one of the sweetest "I told you so" moments I've had in a while.
Just gonna update this thread with an excerpt from an article I wrote recently. I started a new thread about it, but part of it belongs in this one because it explains the concepts this entire thread is based on. Enjoy:
Facing the Opponent:
This type of positioning boils down to the placement of each fighter
Facing the Opponent:
This type of positioning boils down to the placement of each fighter
Cool video, hadn't seen that one. I don't think Foreman's making the same mistake. For one, Makdessi's opponent was stepping forward and to the left, which put him in the path of Makdessi's right hand. Foreman is stepping to the right, away from his opponent's right hand. The right hand Foreman throws to set up his left uppercut, as well as the distance he closes on that left uppercut, prevent ****ey from being able to counter with a left hook as he steps. And Foreman makes it a point to turn after his step to make sure ****ey doesn't get an angle on him.
IMO, Makdessi's opponent off balanced himself and opened himself up way more than Foreman did.
It's hard to tell, I can't see his feet. It doesn't look like it to me though. There are some key differences:
1. Foreman doesn't step then punch, he does each simultaneously. The footwork is hidden by his rear hand lead. So basically Foreman sets up his movement with punches and his punches with positioning, while Forte just makes a huge movement then tries to land a hard punch.
2. He doesn't move in the way as Forte. Foreman takes a small step slightly to the inside, Forte takes a full hop step at 45 degrees. It's a lesson in the value of subtlety.
3. Foreman is cheat punching: He's throwing the opposite hand of the foot he's stepping with. That makes the movement harder to follow and less predictable. It also enhances his positioning, allowing him to land from the inside angle while moving to the outside angle. Really slick stuff.
The difference is in set up, knowledge of positioning and the subtlety of movement, which make Forte's movement a footwork mistake and Foreman's movement footwork genius.
I see your points ... Probably you are right that the difference is in the set up ...
Interesting thing is, that I saw Foreman fights with Frazier, but never paid attention to the angles that he created there to knock out Joe ...
Anyway, don't you think that this particular thing still applies to what Foreman is doing - "stepping without turning to face the opponent" ... Looks like if the set up would not work, he will be in a bad position ...
Sorry, I meant to respond to this awhile ago.
Worst case scenario for Foreman, he steps outside and pivots to face the opponent again, while the opponent simply pivots to face him and they both end up in position. The opponent's options were essentially to hit him with a cross on the way in, since Foreman was moving into it, or hit him with the left hook as Foreman took the cheat step. The problem is, the opponent was covering up and out of position to throw the right initially, then Foreman hits the left hand out of position as he steps to the side, taking the left hook out of the equation. There wasn't much the other guy could have done to hurt Foreman in that instant, only to avoid getting hit. This is a case where Foreman's footwork seems strange, but the movement is still based on sound positioning.
I wrote a piece about some of the Russian fighters in the UFC, and I posted it in the UFC Forum. I didn't wanna start another thread about it, but I thought some of you guys might like it so I'll post it in here: http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f2/russians-coming-2624365/
Very cool drill to work on controlling the center and not letting a mobile fighter escape the ropes. Thanks for sharing.
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I don't like how he is facilitating the pivot on the 1-2-pivot-1 by making the lead foot step to the side during the first punch. If the pivot is broken into two parts, the lead step to the side and the circle step, he's throwing: lead side step-1-2-circle step-1.
I think it should be 1-2-side step-circle step-1.
The way he is doing it is both obvious and begging for a cut kick to his lead inner thigh.
Also good drill to get used to move in both directions and in-and-out while punching ...
A lot of guys have problem with that especially while moving to the right.
IMO, if to put the obstacles in the center, it will also make a good drill on how to move laterally and then quickly switching to attacking ...
I dont know about that. after you throw a right hand it is more difficult to step left with speed and it would take away from your balance. You can pivot off your left foot, rotate right,or Skip out then pivot. your right foot is more able to move freely.
He is stepping left first to better set up his right hand, very common practice.
agree, punching with movement in every direction is vital.
He is stepping left first to better set up his right hand, very common practice.
agree, punching with movement in every direction is vital.
Very true, the ability to punch with control and balance on the move is very important.
