A Basic Study of Angles and Good Footwork (Gif Heavy)

[a guy]

yeah people think your hating if you call jones striking into question, but it's just not that great; his biggest strength is his willingness to throw any sort of strike, though he is tech limited. His mind is not limited, if he thinks it will work he will try it; he has favorite tech; but he isn't against using anything that may be effective, leg kicks-front kicks-sidekicks-oblique kicks-hooks-bodyshots-knees-standing elbows-jab-etc. He may not be good at all the tech, but there isn't a tech that he WON'T use; which makes it very hard to counter and or prepare.

but honestly he has some obvious tech holes off/def...its just most guys aren't able to navigate his range, diversity of attacks, or his throws/trips/shots...his actual tech striking isn't hard to be countered..but these other things are.

also-gustaffson is very hittable, if a guy has some quickness and willingness to land the shot, not be dissuaded by his jab and his movement; guys start aggressive but start to sit back once he starts picking them off which makes them more susceptible to being outmaneuvered and picked apart. Rua wasn't going to be kept out, and when he wanted to land he was going to land...which he did again and again; that was a big concern for me w/gustaffson.

I agree with this. As I said above, Jones' biggest weapon is controlling range. He throws a huge variety of long techniques from kicking range that are hard to predict or get past. His length, decent skill with kicks and variety ensure that he always wins at long range and spends most of the fight there. It's almost impossible to stay at boxing range against him with the fingers in the eye and him backing up or using elbows. In clinch range, he just tosses you. His striking isn't special because it's technical or particularly good. It's special because it's a style perfect for his build and grappling skills.

I'm really gonna have to watch Gustafsson fight. From the highlights I saw, he seemed to get hit rarely but always while at an angle so it was never clean. Then again, no ones gonna put clips of him getting dropped in his own highlight.

 

[a guy]

What about Cruz?

This is a really good video that talks all about his footwork. I didn't make it.
http://vid.ly/3b0v9t

The thing with Cruz is, his footwork never really puts him in position to punch well. His posture almost always goes to hell as he moves and his feet never end up where they should be to punch or kick with any real power.

His footwork is weird because it makes him very unpredictable and hard to hit but it also prevents him from throwing hard shots. There's too much emphasis on endless movement. It works for him because he uses so many feints, stance switches and different types of steps and movements that his opponents just can't keep up. The tradeoff is that he doesn't knock people out because he's too busy worrying about keeping the movement going and because he doesn't really move into dominant angles. In fact, he ends up squared to his opponent's a lot.

If you look at how much Cruz sidesteps and moves, it's easy to think he's getting all kinds of angles on his opponents. But in reality, he just moves so much that he gets both he and his opponent facing the wrong way, with his advantage being that he knows where he's going and where his opponent is, while the opponent can't tell.

Also, his awkward head movement does make him difficult to hit even when his opponents have angles on him. But, like his footwork, it puts him in weird positions where his opponent is missing, but he's stifling his own potential for counters.

Basically, Cruz has a very good understanding of how to use footwork to not get hit. It's very effective for his defense, but he sacrifices his offense. He has a lot going for him with his variety and speed, so if he ever learns to use those things to put him into good positions to attack rather than to be constantly defending, he'll at the very least hurt people a lot more frequently. I can't say I'm a fan of his footwork or his style in general, but it works for him.

EDIT: Just adding this picture I found to demonstrate how bad his posture can get.

 

[Bennosuke]

That was an awesome video on Cruz's footwork. Thank you.

 

[EndlessCritic]

Except... Cruz' offence isn't limited to throwing strikes. He is a wrestler first and foremost.

 

[a guy]

That was an awesome video on Cruz's footwork. Thank you.

Yea I found it a few years ago and thought it was fantastic. I wasn't sure I'd be able to find it again (couldn't find it on youtube) but I'm happy I did.

 

[a guy]

Except... Cruz' offence isn't limited to throwing strikes. He is a wrestler first and foremost.

That's true, I should have specified I was only talking about his footwork for striking.

 

[devante]

That's true, I should have specified I was only talking about his footwork for striking.

Its what makes mma unique, as positions that are bad in regards to striking; but since u can wrestle/grapple thatt can be overlooker cus ur still in position to wrestle/counter wrestle. Which can make guys less disciplinee in their striking...because they can turn to their wrestling to bail them out or they feel they ccan. The issue becomes major when an opp can neutralize their wrestling...then the holes get exposed...I.e. edgar v aldo edgar v henderson

 

[a guy]

Its what makes mma unique, as positions that are bad in regards to striking; but since u can wrestle/grapple thatt can be overlooker cus ur still in position to wrestle/counter wrestle. Which can make guys less disciplinee in their striking...because they can turn to their wrestling to bail them out or they feel they ccan. The issue becomes major when an opp can neutralize their wrestling...then the holes get exposed...I.e. edgar v aldo edgar v henderson

I mean that's true but with Cruz's footwork a lot of the time he doesn't put himself into position to wrestle either. In general, his footwork isn't good for offense, only for defense. I understand that and respect it, I'm just saying that I don't enjoy it.

There's a reason he's never been knocked out and it's also related to why he hasn't been knocking anyone out on an elite level. His style developed to keep him safe during striking exchanges and he's definitely hard to hit, but he also doesn't usually hit hard. Once again, that's just who he is as a fighter and it made him a UFC champ, but there are still flaws worth mentioning. I'm not saying he should change what he's doing, just explaining the disadvantages of it because the video I posted explains the advantages.

 

[devante]

I mean that's true but with Cruz's footwork a lot of the time he doesn't put himself into position to wrestle either. In general, his footwork isn't good for offense, only for defense. I understand that and respect it, I'm just saying that I don't enjoy it.

There's a reason he's never been knocked out and it's also related to why he hasn't been knocking anyone out on an elite level. His style developed to keep him safe during striking exchanges and he's definitely hard to hit, but he also doesn't usually hit hard. Once again, that's just who he is as a fighter and it made him a UFC champ, but there are still flaws worth mentioning. I'm not saying he should change what he's doing, just explaining the disadvantages of it because the video I posted explains the advantages.

Definitely agree...cruz results are often used to silence critics; but he has holes in his striking; I enjoy this thread for highlighting both sides of the equation and addressing the point that even if something isn't textbook or balanced it can be very effective. More importantly regardless of how good someone is there is always a flaw to be taken adv of or attacked.

 

[a guy]

Definitely agree...cruz results are often used to silence critics; but he has holes in his striking; I enjoy this thread for highlighting both sides of the equation and addressing the point that even if something isn't textbook or balanced it can be very effective. More importantly regardless of how good someone is there is always a flaw to be taken adv of or attacked.

Exactly. And just because a flaw hasn't been exploited yet doesn't mean it can't be or won't be. Some guys go entire careers with massive flaws in their games before meeting an opponent who can take advantage of them. A good example is the Diaz brothers. They were considered outstanding boxers for years and now both have looked pretty terrible in their past 2 fights against fighters smart, patient and calm enough to outmaneuver them with footwork. The problem is, it's hard to explain to people (especially the fighters themselves) that what they're doing has problems when it's worked for them forever.

But hey, half of footwork is preventing your opponent from getting into advantageous positions. If guys have big holes that no one is doing anything about, there has to be a reason why. In Edgar's case it's his grappling and enhanced by his speed. In Cruz's it's his unpredictability/variety also enhanced by his speed and grappling. With the Diaz brothers, it's their ability to make fights heated scraps by playing with emotions. But when they run into guys who aren't afraid of their grappling (Edgar vs. Aldo), aren't willing to brawl (Nick vs Condit and GSP, Nate vs Bendo and Thomson) or when they lose their speed (very likely to happen to Cruz with his injuries) then they're gonna start looking very beatable very quickly. That's when fans start saying "he didn't look right" or "that wasn't the real him", ignoring what the opponent did to cause that.

 

[a guy]

Well this thread mostly died down, but I was really enjoying it so I'm gonna do a quick write up about one of my favorite fighters to watch who most people have never heard of: John Makdessi.



In the first 10 seconds of the highlight, you see him land two quick skipping sidekicks. In both cases, notice how he has backed the opponent against the cage. This means that he can not move backwards away from the kick, only to a side of it. With his squared up stance, he's too much of a target and can't move laterally fast enough to avoid the quick feet of Makdessi.

Next, we see him being aggressively pressured by the opponent. Watch his feet closely. It appears that he is moving straight back, but his right foot moves out to his left just a little each time as he sticks a jab in the opponent's face. Then, right before he gets backed into the cage, he pivots off with a left hook to escape.

Then, at 12 seconds in, you'll see Makdessi circling to his right. Watch as the opponent follows him poorly by stepping his right foot forward before the left and squaring his stance. Seeing the opening, Makdessi leaps in with a straight right lead that catches his opponent before he can move.

The sequence starting 15 seconds in is really nice. You see him hop slightly in then back out with some of that linear TKD footwork. Notice how he's playing with the opponent's range. His hands are down and he's just a few inches away from that cross. Close enough to get an opponent to reach and to counter, but too far to hit. With great timing, Makdessi follows the opponent's cross back with a jab as he hops to his own left to get an angle away from his opponent's kick. It would have been a fantastic position to nail the opponent with a cross, too, if the left hand of the opponent wasn't in his face.

Then, at 0:20, you'll see him step outside the southpaw's lead foot to land the right hand. He does a smart job of checking the opponent's lead (right) glove as he steps to throw the cross, ensuring that the opponent can't throw a simultaneous right hook and also can't land with the simultaneous left straight because of the step. The only problem I have with this tactic is that it actually leaves Makdessi in a bad position to defend, but he manages to avoid the left hook with head movement and the opponent isn't smart enough to pivot clockwise for the inside angle.

The next sequence is pretty similar, he steps outside but this time the opponent is ready to pull back to avoid it then rush to counter. This is very smart as the opponent gets the inside angle and tries to capitalize with a straight blast, but Makedessi is quick to pivot and start working the same jab as he hops back that he used previously. This time, he hooks off the second jab and uses it to push the right shoulder of the opponent past him as he pivots. Good recovery from a scary situation.

The next two highlights show him using his hopping footwork to disguise his awesome kicks. He hops around normally, so it's difficult to tell when he's skipping into his moves.

Then, he uses a nice lead leg kick to the calf to step outside the lead foot of a southpaw and circle away from the rear kick his opponent was trying to throw. This helps him both circle away from the rear kick and set up his jab. The inside low kick to the calf is a great lead against a southpaw and a great way to get that coveted outside foot position. He does the same thing again about 40 seconds in.

Then you see a whole lot of fancy kicking. My favorite is at 52 seconds when he uses his hopping to leap into a kick that his opponent is late to react to because it blends so well with his normal movement.

The jab knockdown at 0:58 is sweet. It again shows him messing right outside the range of his opponents, then countering as soon as they rush in. He forces the opponent to make footwork mistakes by controlling that distance, while leaving himself in good position to plant and land a solid jab.

At 1:13, you'll see him move an entire half circle around an opponent who tries to clinch with him. It's awesome.

At 1:16 he lands a nice double jab from the inside angle after pivoting slightly to his left, which the opponent unwisely tries to chase with a superman punch.

At 1:20, he uses that backing up jab again to keep the perfect range for him to land while his opponents move into the jabs. That's perfect control of range with the footwork.

At 1:24, he uses an interesting little step with a jab to move outside the southpaw's jab, then circles fully around to his side and rushes with 2 right straights, the second of which lands. This was also largely in part to the opponent's terrible footwork (I have honestly no idea what he was doing), but it shows what happens when opponents keep getting outmaneuvered and get lazy with their footwork.

At 1:28, he uses nice footwork to fake a kick while stepping across his body before landing a spinning back fist. He does the same thing a few seconds later for the knockout.

So what's really interesting about Makdessi is his use of TKD style footwork along with angles to have success. He uses small hops just out of range to disguise his kicks and bait opponents, then attacks with a jab while circling to the left when he creates openings. His footwork while backpedaling is pretty cool as it allows him to jab opponents in between their attacks before hopping back into a range that they will move into to be jabbed again. He has some tricky footwork setups for his unique (to mma) kicks and can move left pretty well. He doesn't often try to move to his right when attacking or defending though, so his movement can become predictable but it's better than no lateral movement at all, especially with how well he can control space.

 

[Babba]

Wow, that's exactly what I had in mind when I started the thread. Kindelan's movement was great to watch because he could move in any direction while in any range. He really showed how to be unpredictable and deceptive with his footwork and had his opponent following him around the ring.

There's a great sequence starting at 1:42 of the first video. He's circling to the left, then reverses direction with a lead right hook (from southpaw for anyone who didn't see the video) and uses it to get outside the opponent, then run him into a straight left that beats the opponent's straight right. Kindelan then throws a jab that misses as his opponent continues his momentum takes the outside angle, so Kindelan ducks Khan's right straight and pivots out to the left. It's beautiful, and I love his constant use of that right hook.

I also like how he took advantage of his opponent's quick feet. For example, at 2:45, they break away from the clinch and Kindelan hops back as Khan moves forward with a lot of momentum. Kindelan plants, lands a lightning fast 1-2 (that Khan runs into) from an outside angle and steps back in time to avoid the counter right. Good stuff.

Thanks a lot for this, this is exactly what I was hoping for.

Hey if you liked Kindelan check out the new school of cuban ammies, Sotolongo.



very different style but still a lot of cuban elements. what i love about him is the awareness of when to use guard and not -and his use of the underutilized rear left hook.

edit: entertaining fight as well, the italian is insane.

 

[Kid Chocolate]

I don't know about Edgar. He definitely moves a lot and he definitely moves fast, but I don't know if I'd say he has good footwork. I think it'd be more appropriate to say he has good defensive footwork. He does a great job of angling out after he engages (usually with a combined right hand and inside slip, followed by a step out to the left, very similar to a technique I know you like ) and makes it difficult for opponent's to catch him on the way out. On the way in, however, is a different story.

He tends to rush them with alternating steps, but his punches aren't very linked with his footwork so he lacks power. The problem is, fighters know that Edgar's wrestling is very good so instead of standing their ground and countering with crisp shots, a lot of them try to retreat, but he moves forward too quickly so he manages to catch them. Notice how a lot of the time when Edgar rushes, he does it by leading with body shots. Like I was talking about in my thread about striking a grappler, the body shots are accompanied by a level change which, in this case, is being used by a wrestler to threaten the striker, instead of by a striker to neutralize the wrestler. It works both ways. However, if you watch this highlight of his fight with Aldo (a very confident striker with outstanding TDD) you'll see how hittable Edgar is when you exploit his aggressive footwork:


Really look at just how often Edgar lets himself end up completely square to Aldo.

Another big problem he has is that he often moves to the side, but rarely faces his opponents. For example, look at 2:03 of the video you posted. Penn actually has a good angle on him and even though he isn't landing, he's in a much better position than Edgar. This happens frequently because of the way Edgar steps in. It's fast, but it gets him in trouble against opponents who are smart and calm enough not to attempt outrunning him.

Edgar has quick feet and good reactions, hence he's able to maneuver out of situations very well. However, Like you and probably others have said that doesn't equate to good footwork.

Edgar moves a lot, and that makes it seem to a lot of people that he has good footwork. My main issue with his footwork is that he moves far too much, he actually moves himself out of positions to land his shots. It is effective in forcing his opponents to chase him but isn't 'good footwork'.

 

[JeetKunDoGuy]

What about Eddie Wineland? I just watched (and rewatched) his last fight with Brad Pickett, and I was thoroughly impressed with his defensive and offensive footwork. I couldn't find a video obviously, but he was constantly taking angles, using lateral motion, utilizing feints and capitalizing on his opponents offence to land some really nice counters. He was very active with his footwork but was good at staying in range to land shots. At one point Rogan even commented that his footwork is reminiscent of Cruz's, but I think Wineland has better footwork; less jazz and more subtlety. He also maintains great posture. And I love the way he uses the jab to control distance. He seems to really use the jab the way it's meant to be used. All around I think he's quickly becoming one of my favorite fighters to watch in the UFC...

 

[hell wall]

you shoould do a thread on slipping punches and head movement @ a guy...you are a keen observer

 

[Kid Chocolate]

To be fair, I thought Edgar's footwork was much better against Oliveira. Not as much wasted movement and very effective(but obvious) use of angles.

 

[a guy]

To be fair, I thought Edgar's footwork was much better against Oliveira. Not as much wasted movement and very effective(but obvious) use of angles.

He looked pretty much the same to me. He made the same mistakes as usual, most notably his constant pointing of his left foot far outside the opponent's rear foot (resulting in squaring up). He likes it because it lets him land his right hand faster by shortening the path, can be done with a slip to the left and gives him a way to exit. But it makes him very hittable and leaves him in no position to follow up with any good strikes. Opponents are free to counter afterwards. He also does too much hopping for my taste.

If you ask me, Oliveira had the right idea with his footwork and techniques but wasn't skilled enough to pull it off. He was throwing a good amount of jabs, but his jab frankly sucks and Edgar was able to counter it several times with pretty hard right hands (that would have been harder if he didn't point his damn lead foot away). Oliveira tried to use front kicks to keep Edgar away, but he only did it when Edgar was circling instead of coming in and he only threw them with his rear leg, plus his technique was bad. I love how Oliveira was trying to work the clinch when Edgar got in close, but he didn't break Edgar's posture or use his forearms to get any real control so Edgar could either punch out of it or get a takedown before it was secured. I loved the elbows he used a couple times, but he only threw like 2.
Basically, Oliveira did a good job holding his ground for the most part and had some really smart ideas, but not the skills to implement them. His stance is front foot heavy, his technique is sloppy and he wasn't always throwing the right things at the right times.

In my opinion, the key to beating Edgar is to control the range by holding your ground with jabs and teeps when he's rushing, then wear him down with leg kicks on the side he's circling to when he's using that hopping lateral footwork. His footwork really makes him hittable.

 

[JeetKunDoGuy]

No love for Wineland? I tried to find a good video to analyze but none of them showed off his footwork like I wanted. I think it's because he has improved so vastly even since his fight with Scott Jorgensen.

 

[a guy]

No love for Wineland? I tried to find a good video to analyze but none of them showed off his footwork like I wanted. I think it's because he has improved so vastly even since his fight with Scott Jorgensen.

Sorry, I was on a short vacation for a few days and I've been busy since getting home around midnight last night. Wineland is definitely great and I'll probably write something about him, but I had the same problem as you where I can't find any good highlights and I haven't seen him fight in forever so right now all I can picture when I think of him is his jab. Tomorrow I'll look harder and see what I can find.

 

[a guy]

you shoould do a thread on slipping punches and head movement @ a guy...you are a keen observer

I appreciate the praise. I'll consider it, but my main area of knowledge is mma and there are precious few fighters who actually use head movement in mma, even fewer who use it to end up in good positions to counter.

Even then, most of the head movement comes in the form of simultaneous counters as there are plenty of fighters who will slip inside your jab and throw a cross counter over it (Mendes, Overeem, Pearson, Edgar, etc), but really none that I can think of who will slip outside your jab to load their right, then throw it as you pull the jab back. If it's not simultaneous counters, head movement in mma is generally restricted to level changes (JDS used level changes specifically to knock out Velasquez, Yvel, Werdum and probably more).

There might be some guys who use slips to end up in positions to effectively counter, but off the top of my head I can't think of any who don't use head movement in one of the those two ways explained above.