'300' was a work; Persians were more democratic than Spartans

[j123]

Life imitates art. It is well known that Greece fucked those worthless asshole persians up. The persians were basically the fucking Zerg.

lol, they do have the "assimilation" going on.
List of units:

• That big mofo who got stabbed in the bicep is an Ultralisk
• Ninjas with bombs are Mutalisks
• That gimp manlet who sold out the Spartans is an Infested Terran
• King Xerxes is Kerrigan riding on a Hive
• Spartans are marines hopped up on stimpacks, but there were no medics so they dun goofed their HP to 1
• Phalanx is seige mode

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

We were talking about Sparta, the one that had regular cullings of slave populations, does that sounds like an stable government to you?

And they had laws but little in the way of checks and balances so it was pretty normal for laws to be abused, after all even countries like North Korea have laws, what its written and whats followed are quite 2 different things.

If the Achaemenids had tried to follow a despot approach to empire management they would had not been that succesful, they would had been more like the greek "empires".

Lol Sparta WAS a very stable regime. Slaves or not. They were often criticised for being change averse and conservative. Basically for being too stable.

 

[aus101]

That s correct. As is earth and water and drinking rivers dry. And Leonidas did sacrifice himself and his army.

But obviously there is also a bunch of stuff that was skewed or plain inaccurate.

Yeah but the movie is referencing the source, which is an absurd propaganda piece to begin with.

I mean in many cases the original is even more insane. Herodotus claims the first assault is called off due to the amount of dead mean the Persian forces are having to climb a wall of bodies to reach the Spartans. The movie should have kept that part instead of having the Spartans repair and then push over a wall to end the first days attack.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Yeah but the movie is referencing the source, which is an absurd propaganda piece to begin with.

I mean in many cases the original is even more insane. Herodotus claims the first assault is called off due to the amount of dead mean the Persian forces are having to climb a wall of bodies to reach the Spartans. The movie should have kept that part instead of having the Spartans repair and then push over a wall to end the first days attack.

I don t think that the original text is a propaganda piece. Can you propose any alternative anyways ?

If you read Thucydides you will also find some wtf gems like that. Single battles were often won or lost for the most absurd reasons. In the end the most powerful army often prevails but single battles ,especially rather insignificant ones like the Thermopiles, are often won or lost on random external events.

 

[Rod1]

Lol Sparta WAS a very stable regime. Slaves or not. They were often criticised for being change averse and conservative. Basically for being too stable.

Being conservative doesnt necesarily means being stable.

 

[Sir Galahad]

Yeah the movie wasn't accurate about persians. I didn't see any selling pagers

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Being conservative doesnt necesarily means being stable.

Well they still were stable AF.

Hardly changing their ways for hundreds of years is a manifestation of stability.

Certainly more stable than Athens which was a mess and more stable than Persia (Xerxes's father Darius made a coup with 7 other Persians to seize power from a Mede imposter, who was pretending to be the ruler after le late King Cambyse went insane......).

 

[JadeOwl]

On historians : do we even have persian written sources that give Persia's side ? That's right we don't. Pretty much all we know of that period comes from Greek sources. So I ll guess we ll have to take Herodotos' word for it.

You should take everything coming from the pen of a man also known as "The Father of Lies", with more than a grain of salt.

Lol Sparta WAS a very stable regime. Slaves or not. They were often criticised for being change averse and conservative. Basically for being too stable.

You say that as if stability was in and of itself a good thing. Which in this case it most certainly wasn't.

 

[Rod1]

Well they still were stable AF.

Hardly changing their ways for hundreds of years is a manifestation of stability.

Certainly more stable than Athens which was a mess and more stable than Persia (Xerxes's father Darius made a coup with 7 other Persians to seize power from a Mede imposter, who was pretending to be the ruler after le late King Cambyse went insane......).

Their city was stable, their hegemony was anything but stable.

Athens managed to stay relevant during all periods of classical greek history, Spartan relevance was a byproduct of its military powress a military powress that they eventually lost because said lack of innovation and faith in their old ways.

Once the Thebans broke the Spartans in Leuctra it was over for them, and its not like their hegemony was anything but stable, they had to beg for the Persians to stop supporting the Corinthians and they had to give Ionia to Persia in order to achieve so.

 

[aus101]

I don t think that the original text is a propaganda piece. Can you propose any alternative anyways ?

If you read Thucydides you will also find some wtf gems like that. Single battles were often won or lost for the most absurd reasons. In the end the most powerful army often prevails but single battles ,especially rather insignificant ones like the Thermopiles, are often won or lost on random external events.

The histories's are Herodotus as travel writer slash/Teller of tales. He says he's writing the text so as to ensure that "..great and wondrous deeds, those shown forth by Greeks and those by barbarians," were not forgotten.

His world view splits everyone into Greeks and barbarians, but at least he's trying to be objective and unbiased... Cue to millions of Persians being humbled by a few thousand Greeks. Yeah, the Greek compatriot of Socrates wrote a really unbiased account of the Persian wars. It's one of the most exaggerated historical sources ever seen but, as Herodotus is inventing the genre he is largely forgiven.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

The histories's are Herodotus as travel writer slash/Teller of tales. He says he's writing the text so as to ensure that "..great and wondrous deeds, those shown forth by Greeks and those by barbarians," were not forgotten.

His world view splits everyone into Greeks and barbarians, but at least he's trying to be objective and unbiased... Cue to millions of Persians being humbled by a few thousand Greeks. Yeah, the Greek compatriot of Socrates wrote a really unbiased account of the Persian wars. It's one of the most exaggerated historical sources ever seen but, as Herodotus is inventing the genre he is largely forgiven.

Maybe but again, do we have alternate sources ?

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Their city was stable, their hegemony was anything but stable.

Athens managed to stay relevant during all periods of classical greek history, Spartan relevance was a byproduct of its military powress a military powress that they eventually lost because said lack of innovation and faith in their old ways.

Once the Thebans broke the Spartans in Leuctra it was over for them, and its not like their hegemony was anything but stable, they had to beg for the Persians to stop supporting the Corinthians and they had to give Ionia to Persia in order to achieve so.

I ll agree that Sparta's prestige was based almost solely on its military power, and even then only on their hoplites. They sucked at see, with light troops, and on horseback. They were incapable of innovation and were just stuck with their ways.

They also did not leave much in the way of posterity.

 

[aus101]

Maybe but again, do we have alternate sources ?

Lack of alternate sources doesn't affect a sources validity. There are no alternate sources to the Iliad, do we just believe everything inside and don't question it's veracity or biases?

Herodotus talked a lot of shit and his excuse was "hey, somebody told me that on my travels".

 

[Based and White Pilled]

Next thing I know you'll tell me that the Persians weren't hypersexual degenerates with tons of piercings and brown skin...