Elections 2020 Democratic Primary Thread v4

[kpt018]

How did him "hanging around" hurt her the general against Trump? What's your evidence to support this? As we've already been over, less of Bernie voters voted for Trump than Hillary voters did for McCain (by about 10% if I remember correctly) and many of those would have never voted for Hillary in the first place. Bernie did 39 rallies in 13 states for Hillary (a lot of states that Hillary herself didn't campaign in) in only 3 months. He even got criticised for this by people who thought we was "selling out". He went above and beyond what was expected of him and I guarantee you that Hillary would never have done that for him (she didn't for Obama). She wont even commit to supporting him now against Trump ffs.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/bernie-sanderss-hard-fight-for-hillary-clinton
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/05/30/politics/bernie-sanders-umbrage-clinton-2016/index.html

I don't understand why Bernie is being held to different standards than everyone else. It's ridiculous. Also the majority of the DNC leadership did, in fact, oppose Bernie Sanders as they are trying to do right now. Superdelegates are a joke and the rules were rightly changed because of the controversy. That's not a CT, that's a fact.

Yes, we have been over this. If you’re actually interested you can find the effects of Bernie hanging on or how long primaries hurt the candidates.

What’s the point your making or supporting with the links? I have very limited time these days.

I’m not sure how anything I said is applicable to your last paragraph.

 

[LuchaBear]

For all of the hype about "Bernie or Busters" costing Dems the election in the cycle, which was total BS, they'd actually lose the vast majority of Sanders supporters if they try to steal the nomination from him with a delegate lead.

Wouldn't just be disastrous for the presidential race, it would reverberate down ticket too.

Given how fast Tom Perez came out and publicly denied this yesterday, I just think that it's BS being leaked to the media by party insiders who hate Sanders.

Then again, the Democrats love to



LOL Sanders' surrogates told Clinton to fuck off on stage at a campaign event in Iowa last night.

Dem establishment types are having a meltdown and pretending that Clinton didn't launch four different unprovoked attacks on Sanders in the media in January.

I think Rashida comes off trashy here. Whether Hillary has been running her mouth or not, we all know Bernie wouldn't be promoting booing upon hearing her name.

Theres just something really immature I find about her, same with Omar. I also see many issues in the future with those two and Bernie himself. A.O.C as well.. Shit will hit the fan eventually.

 

[Rob Battisti]

Shame Bernie isn’t strong enough to really confront the DNC. Trump won because he basically trashed the Republican Party the entire time saying he was the only hope. Bernie should do the same and really expose the corrupt nature of the DNC instead of rolling over like he always does.

 

[LuchaBear]

It's amusing to see the ones who been calling Bernie supporters "Bernie Bros" from way back in 2016 like some CNN talking parrot.. get all offended and confused as to "hii I'm voting for Bernie too, why you guys so aggressive?" Meanwhile you've ALL been passively aggressively undermining the effects of MSM and the establishment doing everything they can to hurt Bernie's presence and refuse to acknowledge it. At all costs.

This refusal to not acknowledge this has been the number one issue between moderate Democrats and Bernie supporters. It's not just acknowledging it but then attempting to ridicule the ones who are in reality. You can add the refusal to acknowledge that money and the two party system are only making things worst.

It's almost like you're all perfectly fine with the status quo and then you wonder how we got here. Or... You're still upset that Hillary lost to a clown and in hope's of making you feel better about it, taking it out on Bernie supporters does the trick. I believe it's both..

Change your attitude and come back to reality moderates because your focus is on the wrong people.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Shame Bernie isn’t strong enough to really confront the DNC. Trump won because he basically trashed the Republican Party the entire time saying he was the only hope. Bernie should do the same and really expose the corrupt nature of the DNC instead of rolling over like he always does.

They're not actually corrupt, though. Bernie lost last time because voters preferred his opponent, and it wasn't a close race. I think Bernie plays way too much into this kind of lunatic CT that the evil DNC (which isn't even a powerful organization and has many Bernie supporters involved in it) is plotting against him as is.

 

[Trotsky]

In a CT kind of way or in a preference for moderate candidates more willing to build a coalition kind of way?

In an institutional Clinton-was-financing-operations-and-influencing-staffing kind of way. The idea that it was just a matter of impartial pragmatists wanting a more palatable candidate is pretty crazy imo. The "rigged" bit is a bit much, though.

 

[Sano]

Shame Bernie isn’t strong enough to really confront the DNC. Trump won because he basically trashed the Republican Party the entire time saying he was the only hope. Bernie should do the same and really expose the corrupt nature of the DNC instead of rolling over like he always does.

That's just not Bernie. Despite what some of his critics say, he wants to unite the people not cause more divisiveness. Him and Trump are like polar opposites, the only thing they have in common is that they are both outsiders. Trump is a fake populist (look at his cabinet), Bernie is the real deal.

 

[Jack V Savage]

It's amusing to see the ones who been calling Bernie supporters "Bernie Bros" from way back in 2016 like some CNN talking parrot.. get all offended and confused as to "hii I'm voting for Bernie too, why you guys so aggressive?" Meanwhile you've ALL been passively aggressively undermining the effects of MSM and the establishment doing everything they can to hurt Bernie's presence and refuse to acknowledge it. At all costs.

This refusal to not acknowledge this has been the number one issue between moderate Democrats and Bernie supporters. It's not just acknowledging it but then attempting to ridicule the ones who are in reality. You can add the refusal to acknowledge that money and the two party system are only making things worst.

IMO, the notion that the MSM and "establishment" is plotting against Bernie truly is ridiculous. So what's someone supposed to say? Put yourself in the shoes of a normal person. You're seeing people making claims that you think--maybe wrongly--are ridiculous, but they're in support of a candidate that you're fine with, and you realize that you and those people need to be on the same side for the good of America. What do you do? Just hold your tongue and let paranoia spread around you (after seeing what it's done to the other half of the country and the harm that has caused everyone)?

 

[LuchaBear]

"But but Bernie supporters!"

What about nasty entitled Hillary and Biden supporters? Oh wait we're not allowed to acknowledge that.

Bernie and his supporters are the scapegoat of moderates.

 

[franklinstower]

"But but Bernie supporters!"

What about nasty entitled Hillary and Biden supporters? Oh wait we're not allowed to acknowledge that.

Bernie and his supporters are the scapegoat of moderates.

The establishment is alway right.

 

[LuchaBear]

IMO, the notion that the MSM and "establishment" is plotting against Bernie truly is ridiculous. So what's someone supposed to say? Put yourself in the shoes of a normal person. You're seeing people making claims that you think--maybe wrongly--are ridiculous, but they're in support of a candidate that you're fine with, and you realize that you and those people need to be on the same side for the good of America. What do you do? Just hold your tongue and let paranoia spread around you (after seeing what it's done to the other half of the country and the harm that has caused everyone)?

Do you put the word establishment in quotations because the term is wrong or you don't believe in it? I get putting something like 'identity politics' in one because the term might not be used accurately.


"So what is someone supposed to say?" This is what I'm trying to get to. It starts from this refusal of not acknowledging that there's been a pushback against Bernie from the something you might apparently not believe in.. That's also another acknowledgment issue we have here.

I really feel like if this could be acknowledged, things can move ahead in a more positive direction then what we have now.

What is the issue with acknowledging the pushback against Bernie and the ones responsible? Him being an Independent was one reason I believe some are ok with it.

 

[Phisher]

I think Rashida comes off trashy here. Whether Hillary has been running her mouth or not, we all know Bernie wouldn't be promoting booing upon hearing her name.

Theres just something really immature I find about her, same with Omar. I also see many issues in the future with those two and Bernie himself. A.O.C as well.. Shit will hit the fan eventually.

If the wheels do come off of the bus, it won't be from mocking one of the least popular politicians in the country after she spent an entire month trying to undermine Sanders' campaign in the media.

I guarantee you that nobody outside of the DC-New York media/political bubble and donut Twitter was actually offended by that.

 

[LuchaBear]

If the wheels do come off of the bus, it won't be from mocking one of the least popular politicians in the country after she spent an entire month trying to undermine Sanders' campaign in the media.

I guarantee you that nobody outside of the DC-New York media/political bubble and donut Twitter was actually offended by that.

I doubt that took away any votes from Bernie but that attitude just isn't Bernie like and people are right to make comparisons to the "lock her up" bullshit. It starts from there, ignoring Hillary's disgruntled ass would be best.

 

[Sausage_Carius]

Man this is eye opening in how politics works even if you been watching this shit for over 30 years like I have.

The DCCC have abandoned all fundraising for the general in California to instead back Christy whatsherface, the corporate sellout with an average donation of around $900, to try and beat Cenk Uygur. They are flooding everyone's mailbox with emails to support and give money to her.

The DCCC also broke 3 of their own rules by backing one of the two candidates in Christy and giving her money (supposed to only back one if flipping red to blue). Second they aren't supposed to get involved in a primary and stick to the general. Third they are only supposed to back a blue in the primary if they are the incumbent. Christy is not.

What's also interesting is of the 3 newspapers that wrote out of context quotes from Cenk regarding David Duke, 2 of them had an interview with Cenk prior and acknowledged the existence of the interview for full context to show Cenk mocking Duke but wrote the hit piece anyway and the 3rd paper sent him an email asking for comment at like 5AM and posted the story at 5:07 AM because they didn't want to hear it.

Also mob style intimidation tactics by following him and his staff taking pictures and breaking into his and his wife's cars repeatedly.

I used to say that you don't need a grand conspiracy when common interests align. It's still a truism but this is just blatant to a point where it's obvious they don't give a shit how obviously they all coordinate.



And this comes in the heels of the DNC ignoring their own rules to allow Bloomberg to get onto the stage, floating an idea in the public eye to see if people get upset about letting superdelegates vote in Round 1 so even if Bernie gets a majority of candidates he would still lose.

These people will burn down the Democratic Party and keep Trump in power just to keep Bernie and Cenk out of power.

All pretense is gone. IMO Bernie needs to take the kid gloves off. If he doesn't he will lose.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Do you put the word establishment in quotations because the term is wrong or you don't believe in it? I get putting something like 'identity politics' in one because the term might not be used accurately.

Because it's used to mean different things, and the meaning that anyone has in mind tends to be unclear at any time.

"So what is someone supposed to say?" This is what I'm trying to get to. It starts from this refusal of not acknowledging that there's been a pushback against Bernie from the something you might apparently not believe in.. That's also another acknowledgment issue we have here.

But the thing is, you're framing it (and I think a lot of Bernie's biggest fans think of it) in terms of "admit that there's this big conspiracy or refuse to admit it even though you know it's true," when a lot of people really don't think it is true or even plausible. And I think that's where a lot of the notorious nastiness of Bernie fans comes from--they really can't see that other people have good intentions and are honest but just think that they are wrong (nevermind getting them to accept that other people might be right).

And to head off any motte and bailey game, I'll say that obviously there are people who oppose Bernie's candidacy, just as there are people who oppose every candidate's candidacy. But there's no concerted effort by the MSM or whatever one thinks of as an establishment to take him down or something. I think that truly is ridiculous.

I really feel like if this could be acknowledged, things can move ahead in a more positive direction then what we have now.

What is the issue with acknowledging the pushback against Bernie and the ones responsible? Him being an Independent was one reason I believe some are ok with it.

See above. It's impossible to have a productive discussion if one party to it believes that their position is both unquestionably true and not in need of any rational defense (i.e., anything other than some form of "fuck you if you don't admit we're right!").

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Accidental concession or...? If you're going to be hostile over something, that would be the thing to be hostile over.

Lol, no, just pointing out the typical hypocrisy exhibited by moderates who whine about “Bernie bros” but don’t argue about substance.

 

[franklinstower]

Two minutes in if you want to see some of the main reasons Biden is a terrible liar and candidate.

 

[Rob Battisti]

They're not actually corrupt, though. Bernie lost last time because voters preferred his opponent, and it wasn't a close race. I think Bernie plays way too much into this kind of lunatic CT that the evil DNC (which isn't even a powerful organization and has many Bernie supporters involved in it) is plotting against him as is.

Wasn’t Donna Brazile a DNC head day who gave Hillary questions before a debate? That seems corrupt. Seems like the changing of the rules that would ultimately harm Sanders is pretty close to the definition of rigged.

 

[Trotsky]

Man this is eye opening in how politics works even if you been watching this shit for over 30 years like I have.

The DCCC have abandoned all fundraising for the general in California to instead back Christy whatsherface, the corporate sellout with an average donation of around $900, to try and beat Cenk Uygur. They are flooding everyone's mailbox with emails to support and give money to her.

The DCCC also broke 3 of their own rules by backing one of the two candidates in Christy and giving her money (supposed to only back one if flipping red to blue). Second they aren't supposed to get involved in a primary and stick to the general. Third they are only supposed to back a blue in the primary if they are the incumbent. Christy is not.

What's also interesting is of the 3 newspapers that wrote out of context quotes from Cenk regarding David Duke, 2 of them had an interview with Cenk prior and acknowledged the existence of the interview for full context to show Cenk mocking Duke but wrote the hit piece anyway and the 3rd paper sent him an email asking for comment at like 5AM and posted the story at 5:07 AM because they didn't want to hear it.

Also mob style intimidation tactics by following him and his staff taking pictures and breaking into his and his wife's cars repeatedly.

I used to say that you don't need a grand conspiracy when common interests align. It's still a truism but this is just blatant to a point where it's obvious they don't give a shit how obviously they all coordinate.



And this comes in the heels of the DNC ignoring their own rules to allow Bloomberg to get onto the stage, floating an idea in the public eye to see if people get upset about letting superdelegates vote in Round 1 so even if Bernie gets a majority of candidates he would still lose.

These people will burn down the Democratic Party and keep Trump in power just to keep Bernie and Cenk out of power.

All pretense is gone. IMO Bernie needs to take the kid gloves off. If he doesn't he will lose.

Smith is the more traditionally qualified candidate and doesn't come with near as much risk, while Cenk will immediately start challenging entrenched members.

Also, Cenk being the TYT guy to run is just really unfortunate. Emma Vigeland and Ana Kasparian are both much smarter, much more poised, and have less baggage. Cenk is probably a nice guy, but....shit. He's pretty dumb.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

I think Rashida comes off trashy here. Whether Hillary has been running her mouth or not, we all know Bernie wouldn't be promoting booing upon hearing her name.

Theres just something really immature I find about her, same with Omar. I also see many issues in the future with those two and Bernie himself. A.O.C as well.. Shit will hit the fan eventually.

Of “the squad” Talib is the most divisive, imo. I’m not a fan.