Elections 2020 Democratic Primary Thread v4

[franklinstower]

Er, yes it does. Remember this part: "even when it was clear he didn't have a path to victory."

I already conceded that point. Im not arguing against that. Im combating a spin that Bernie did nothing or very little to help Hillary win. That narrative is wrongheaded IMO. He did over 30 rallies for her and made it very clear that defeating Trump was of utmost importance and his supporters should voter for her.

Aside from those facts I don't care to change people's overall narrative and interpretation of the events.

 

[kpt018]

What I said is true. It is factual. It IS bullshit they posted the video. Others are taking that fact and spining it into misrepresenting Bidens stance on this issue. It is nessesary to correct this.

You are being unreasonable and childish. I cant see any other way to take this. You are misreading my motives and avoiding the plain facts in front of you.

I cant help you with that.

I never said a word about your motives and fwiw I’ve always believed you are sincere and honest on here. In this case I attribute it to good faith error and lashing out (calling me childish).

I’ll just repeat - Biden’s views are not comparable to Ryan’s. So using the video is actually a straw man on Biden’s past positions. That’s the core disagreement.

It’s ok if you don’t want to engage. But I’m telling you it’s all in good faith.

 

[Sano]

Like I said I don't know the facts but the contention is that Bernie stayed in the race when he didn't have a path to victory

If you have evidence that's not true feel free to share

Or if you have evidence Clinton did the same in 08 feel free to share it.

But just looking at end results from 2016 and 2008 it appears Clinton stayed in longer because she was a viable candidate in 2008 longer than Bernie was in 2016.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries

What does it matter? Hillary won and Bernie did everything he could to get her elected against Trump.

 

[franklinstower]

I never said a word about your motives and fwiw I’ve always believed you are sincere and honest on here. In this case I attribute it to good faith error and lashing out (calling me childish).

I’ll just repeat - Biden’s views are not comparable to Ryan’s. So using the video is actually a straw man on Biden’s past positions. That’s the core disagreement.

It’s ok if you don’t want to engage. But I’m telling you it’s all in good faith.

But there is no disagreement which is why I assumed bad faith. I've stated the video is bullshit. I used strong terms about it.........

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

What does it matter? Hillary won and Bernie did everything he could to get her elected against Trump.

If he dragged out a primary he couldn't win you can't say he did everything he could to get her elected.

He could of dropped out earlier.

That being said I think the Clinton camp makes too much of this and should stop talking about 2016. It's in the past

 

[kpt018]

But there is no disagreement which is why I assumed bad faith. I've stated the video is bullshit. I used strong terms about it.........

Right but I think Biden is getting straw annex there. So it’s not accurate to say the video is bs BUT it’s basically accurate. It’s not in my view (unless I missed a clip of him claiming he wanted to privatize SS).

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

If Bernie gets cucked out of the nomination again you guys 100% lose the election. Sad fact is Bernie does worse than Biden in 1v1 debates.

How do those 2 sentences go together?

The Dems will lose if Bernie isn't nominated because Biden is a better debater?

 

[kpt018]

What does it matter? Hillary won and Bernie did everything he could to get her elected against Trump.

Well, he hung on after he lost which hurt Hillary. He also made some strong claims about her integrity and didn’t do enough to stop the CT DNC is against me stuff.

I don’t think it’s fair to say he helped her at all.

 

[b34stmode]

How do those 2 sentences go together?

The Dems will lose if Bernie isn't nominated because Biden is a better debater?

If Bernie gets cucked out of the nomination his voters will vote Trump and Biden loses. Bernie will need to work on his debating skills because from what I have seen he is going to get dominated. Both those statements can be true.

 

[franklinstower]

Right but I think Biden is getting straw annex there. So it’s not accurate to say the video is bs BUT it’s basically accurate. It’s not in my view (unless I missed a clip of him claiming he wanted to privatize SS).

I agree with you. Again. On the other hand "Lying Joe" has repeatedly been caught trying to cut these programs and diminish them because we "cant afford them". This position is indefensible and not being honestly reported on by people.

 

[kpt018]

I agree with you. Again. On the other hand "Lying Joe" has repeatedly been caught trying to cut these programs and diminish them because we "cant afford them". This position is indefensible and not being honestly reported on by people.

Cool. I’m with you, Joe was wrong and I disagree with his views there (I’d find ways to fund it). Lyin Joe? Ok Trump lol

 

[AndroidRage]

If Bernie gets cucked out of the nomination his voters will vote Trump and Biden loses. Bernie will need to work on his debating skills because from what I have seen he is going to get dominated. Both those statements can be true.

Yeah he really needs to be on his A game to defeat the stuttering retard we have for a president in a debate. Lmao ok. Is that why Trump is already talking about refusing to debate the Democratic nominee?

 

[franklinstower]

Cool. I’m with you, Joe was wrong and I disagree with his views there (I’d find ways to fund it). Lyin Joe? Ok Trump lol

He is a liar though. A terrible and consistent liar. He has plagiarized others speeches, lied publicly about degrees he has earned in college, lied about being on a full scholarship, lied about finishing at the top half of his class (which isn't very good anyway) lied about ever wanting to cut SS etc etc.

He is a serial liar and for me, I am done with them if and when I have a choice and this election I do, for once.

Come the generals he will get my vote should he win the primarie.

 

[AndroidRage]

Well, he hung on after he lost which hurt Hillary. He also made some strong claims about her integrity and didn’t do enough to stop the CT DNC is against me stuff.

I don’t think it’s fair to say he helped her at all.

The DNC was against him and still is.

 

[b34stmode]

Yeah he really needs to be on his A game to defeat the stuttering retard we have for a president in a debate. Lmao ok. Is that why Trump is already talking about refusing to debate the Democratic nominee?

I realize people hate Trump, never heard someone say he sucks at debating lol. Would love to see where he is refusing to debate the nominee. Or are you just making shit up?

 

[Jack V Savage]

Cool. I’m with you, Joe was wrong and I disagree with his views there (I’d find ways to fund it). Lyin Joe? Ok Trump lol

I think this is part of the TeaPartyization of the left, where any history of trying to compromise with Republicans is seen as a betrayal and a permanent scar. In the aftermath of the GFC, the economy was in crisis, and Republicans were blocking any attempt to help with a recovery. The plan was to try to pair short-term stimulus with long-term debt reduction in a way that didn't increase taxes (since it was known that Republicans wouldn't go for that). What's the impact on our (meaning the country's) ability to adjust policy to address challenges when a record of ever having been open to compromise (meaning that you give up something you don't want to get something you do want) permanent makes you an untouchable? The sane rightists didn't do enough to stamp this lunacy out when it was spreading among their ranks, and the sane leftists should learn from it.

 

[Sano]

Well, he hung on after he lost which hurt Hillary. He also made some strong claims about her integrity and didn’t do enough to stop the CT DNC is against me stuff.

I don’t think it’s fair to say he helped her at all.

How did him "hanging around" hurt her the general against Trump? What's your evidence to support this? As we've already been over, less of Bernie voters voted for Trump than Hillary voters did for McCain (by about 10% if I remember correctly) and many of those would have never voted for Hillary in the first place. Bernie did 39 rallies in 13 states for Hillary (a lot of states that Hillary herself didn't campaign in) in only 3 months. He even got criticised for this by people who thought we was "selling out". He went above and beyond what was expected of him and I guarantee you that Hillary would never have done that for him (she didn't for Obama). She wont even commit to supporting him now against Trump ffs.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/bernie-sanderss-hard-fight-for-hillary-clinton
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/05/30/politics/bernie-sanders-umbrage-clinton-2016/index.html

I don't understand why Bernie is being held to different standards than everyone else. It's ridiculous. Also the majority of the DNC leadership did, in fact, oppose Bernie Sanders as they are trying to do right now. Superdelegates are a joke and the rules were rightly changed because of the controversy. That's not a CT, that's a fact.

 

[b34stmode]

Dnc already starting on Bernie lol.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/31/dnc-superdelegates-110083

 

[kpt018]

I think this is part of the TeaPartyization of the left, where any history of trying to compromise with Republicans is seen as a betrayal and a permanent scar. In the aftermath of the GFC, the economy was in crisis, and Republicans were blocking any attempt to help with a recovery. The plan was to try to pair short-term stimulus with long-term debt reduction in a way that didn't increase taxes (since it was known that Republicans wouldn't go for that). What's the impact on our (meaning the country's) ability to adjust policy to address challenges when a record of ever having been open to compromise (meaning that you give up something you don't want to get something you do want) permanent makes you an untouchable? The sane rightists didn't do enough to stamp this lunacy out when it was spreading among their ranks, and the sane leftists should learn from it.

Great points. And I’d write off cranks online but this shift seems to manifest irl and with leaders. For example, AOC recently said that she and other progressives are not even in the same party as Democrats. That’s one first term congresswoman but an influential one. I totally agree that Dems would be wise to learn from the Reps mistakes and take action (Pelosi seems to understand this very well and has done an excellent job handling the far left, imo).

 

[kpt018]

The DNC was against him and still is.

In a CT kind of way or in a preference for moderate candidates more willing to build a coalition kind of way?