Elections 2020 Democratic Primary Thread v4

[Anung Un Rama]

This spin comes after you claim the video was an accurate portrayal of Biden’s view. Hard stop. One, it isn’t, but two that effectively implies that it’s not slimy.

But it is an accurate portrayal. The video is meant to show Biden is willing to cut social security. If you watch the whole video that is the context of the video; he calls for adjustments, which is his code word for cutting social security, which he has a long history of attempting to do.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

What I said is true. It is factual. It IS bullshit they posted the video. Others are taking that fact and spining it into misrepresenting Bidens stance on this issue. It is nessesary to correct this.

You are being unreasonable and childish. I cant see any other way to take this. You are misreading my motives and avoiding the plain facts in front of you.

I cant help you with that.

I disagree. That video shows Biden calling for adjustments in Social Security. To argue about how it was cut is a total red herring.
-Sanders Campaign - Joe Biden has a long history of trying to cut social security.
-Moderates/ Biden Campaign - yeah, of course, but lets talk about how the video was cut because talking about Joe wanting to cut social security is a bad look for us.

 

[BarryDillon]

But there's no concerted effort by the MSM or whatever one thinks of as an establishment to take him down or something.

Agreed, but that doesn't mean there isn't an unreasonable amount of ant-Bernie bullshit coming from the media. It doesn't have to be coordinated for it to exist. Shared interest, and personal bias factors in extremely heavily. Also, self selection of individuals in the upper echelon media sphere.

What is considered acceptable in the realm of discussion is a huge aspect here as well, and they're all undergirded by the same group psychological dynamics.

 

[Trotsky]

Of “the squad” Talib is the most divisive, imo. I’m not a fan.

Yikes. She's a rockstar. Only one who isn't is Pressley. If Hillary, a retired politician, can sit on the sidelines and attack current Democratic members of Congress and actively divide and hurt the party, then active members should feel free to boo her.

And that's beside the fact that, as a Palestinian American from Detroit, Clinton's policies (relative to those of a pre-Clinton Democrat) have been uniquely destructive to Tlaib's friends, family, and constituents.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Bernie shouldn’t have highlighted the differences between he and Hillary Clinton in a primary. It was the wrong thing to do. Winning the popular vote but losing in states that Hillary didn’t campaign in was Bernie’s fault. Endorsing Clinton early and campaigning for her while persuading more of his supporters to vote for her than her supporters supported Obama was just more divisive Bernie Bro nonsense.

Bernie should not have released that video where Biden acknowledges he wants to cut social security, which is something Biden has been trying to do his entire career. We don’t want to talk about cutting social security, that is a bad look for us, lets talk about the accurate, but imperfect video over and over again. lets not talk about the Iraq War, the racist crime bill, or the pro bank anti consumer bills Biden has passed. Thats a bad look for us. Let’s not talk about the DNC stacking anti-Bernie people on the election committee and proposes reversing delegate changes that would compromise Sanders. Let’s talk about Bernie Bros and campaign texts trying to raise grass roots donations and other very mundain unimportant things.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Yikes. She's a rockstar. Only one who isn't is Pressley. If Hillary, a retired politician, can sit on the sidelines and attack current Democratic members of Congress and actively divide and hurt the party, then active members should feel free to boo her.

And that's beside the fact that, as a Palestinian American from Detroit, Clinton's policies (relative to those of a pre-Clinton Democrat) have been uniquely destructive to Tlaib's friends, family, and constituents.

Yikes? Coming form the guy who down played AOC’s endorsement of Sanders this is kind of rich.

 

[Trotsky]

Yikes? Coming form the guy who down played AOC’s endorsement of Sanders this is kind of rich.

Huh?

I downplayed, or rather more realistically estimated in my opinion, the bump Sanders would get from the endorsement. National supporters of hers were already likely to support Sanders (he polls at like 80% with progressives and young people) and to know she did as well. Realistically, it probably only swayed voters in her House district.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Agreed, but that doesn't mean there isn't an unreasonable amount of ant-Bernie bullshit coming from the media. It doesn't have to be coordinated for it to exist. Shared interest, and personal bias factors in extremely heavily. Also, self selection of individuals in the upper echelon media sphere.

What is considered acceptable in the realm of discussion is a huge aspect here as well, and they're all undergirded by the same group psychological dynamics.

I think this might have been true 10 years ago and that things were more consistent w/ Chomsky’s description in Manufacturing Consent, but I think it a little naive to assume that now. The WaPo doesn’t run coincidently run 16 negative Sanders stories in 16 hours. The media doesn’t ignore (relatively speaking) a top 3 candidate from day 1 until the 11th hour, especially when nearly every major issue being discussed is because he made championed that issue in his previous bid. Etc.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Huh?

I downplayed, or rather more realistically estimated in my opinion, the bump Sanders would get from the endorsement. National supporters of hers were already likely to support Sanders (he polls at like 80% with progressives and young people) and to know she did as well. Realistically, it probably only swayed voters in her House district.

My comment was that i find Talib to be the most divisive (And if you had her present to a room of mixed ideology l have no doubt that would be true). You responded “yikes. she’s a rockstar”, as if that opinion was absurd.
You downplayed AOC’s endorsement of Sanders. I don’t care about the nuance you think you added, if there is a rockstar of the 4 it is AOC. Her rallies and fund raising are off the charts.

 

[BarryDillon]

I think this might have been true 10 years ago and that things were more consistent w/ Chomsky’s description in Manufacturing Consent, but I think it a little naive to assume that now. The WaPo doesn’t run coincidently run 16 negative Sanders stories in 16 hours. The media doesn’t ignore (relatively speaking) a top 3 candidate from day 1 until the 11th hour, especially when nearly every major issue being discussed is because he made championed that issue in his previous bid. Etc.

I think the corrosion of mainstream progressive thought is that bad. I don't think the heads of major newspapers are talking about which piece to run to hurt Bernie. I think that what is allowed as serious "progressive" thought in the mainstream is that far to the right now. The third way really did a number on the left in this country.

 

[Trotsky]

My comment was that i find Talib to be the most divisive (And if you had her present to a room of mixed ideology l have no doubt that would be true). You responded “yikes. she’s a rockstar”, as if that opinion was absurd.
You downplayed AOC’s endorsement of Sanders. I don’t care about the nuance you think you added, if there is a rockstar of the 4 it is AOC. Her rallies and fund raising are off the charts.

Yes, AOC and Omar are rockstars too. And being realistic, instead of unrealistic and overly optimistic, about AOC's influence on a presidential election is entirely different than saying I'm not a fan of her (when in reality she's one of my five most favorite congresspeople) because she says blunt things about Hillary Clinton.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

I think the corrosion of mainstream progressive thought is that bad. I don't think the heads of major newspapers are talking about which piece to run to hurt Bernie. I think that what is allowed as serious "progressive" thought in the mainstream is that far to the right now. The third way really did a number on the left in this country.

Agreed, for the most part, but 16 stories in 16 hours?
Hosting guests that are affiliated with some sort of anti-Bernie org and allowing them to go off, unchecked, with unsubstantiated accusations or opinions. If its not being outright dictated or coordinated by many, it its by a select few and everybody else is going along with it knowingly and willingly.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Yes, AOC and Omar are rockstars too. And being realistic, instead of unrealistic and overly optimistic, about AOC's influence on a presidential election is entirely different than saying I'm not a fan of her (when in reality she's one of my five most favorite congresspeople) because she says blunt things about Hillary Clinton.

I didn’t say you weren’t a fan of hers. I’m just pointing out how ridiculous your post was. “Yikes!”? Lol.
When you downplayed AOCs endorsement, I doubt I said “Yikes” and then condescendingly tried to explain who she was.

 

[Trotsky]

I didn’t say you weren’t a fan of hers. I’m just pointing out how ridiculous your post was. “Yikes!”? Lol.
When you downplayed AOCs endorsement, I doubt I said “Yikes” and then condescendingly tried to explain who she was.

I think you need a Snickers.

 

[kpt018]

In an institutional Clinton-was-financing-operations-and-influencing-staffing kind of way. The idea that it was just a matter of impartial pragmatists wanting a more palatable candidate is pretty crazy imo. The "rigged" bit is a bit much, though.

I hope I wasn’t confusing but in no way do I believe they’re impartial. I’d say the rigged part is more than “a bit much” it’s straight up CT.

 

[kpt018]

But it is an accurate portrayal. The video is meant to show Biden is willing to cut social security. If you watch the whole video that is the context of the video; he calls for adjustments, which is his code word for cutting social security, which he has a long history of attempting to do.

You guys are making these judgements based on code words now?

 

[Anung Un Rama]

I think you need a Snickers.

Lol, this was good. Well played.

 

[Sano]

I didn’t say you weren’t a fan of hers. I’m just pointing out how ridiculous your post was. “Yikes!”? Lol.
When you downplayed AOCs endorsement, I doubt I said “Yikes” and then condescendingly tried to explain who she was.

There's no doubt that AOCs endorsement was huge for Bernie at that time. It was right after his heart attack and it showed real courage and strength. If she hadn't I think Bernie might not be where he is today.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

You guys are making these judgements based on code words now?

Are you denying that Joe has a long history of trying to cut S.S., or are you just trying to distract from that fact?

 

[Sano]

You guys are making these judgements based on code words now?

Come on dude. When Biden says "It still needs adjustments, but it can stay" what do you think that means? Have you seen the compilation of him wanting to cut, freeze and "adjust" SS several times? Honest question.