Elections 2016 Democratic South Carolina Primary Thread

[SODACKER]

Yeah, voting for most people does come down to affinity and disaffinity (not "genuineness or trustworthiness," as those are qualities that people assign to politicians they like rather than people liking candidates for possessing them). A lot of Democrats vote because they don't want an Evangelical or racist to win and a lot of Republicans vote because they don't want someone who is friendly to minorities (whether they are one or not), intellectuals, or urbanites to win. Policy does play into it, but mostly indirectly.

Ah yes, Republicans are stupid racists and Democrats are kind, smart and high minded. Real deep analysis.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Ah yes, Republicans are stupid racists and Democrats are kind, smart and high minded. Real deep analysis.

Jeez. So much partisan testiness. The actual difference between our positions there was pretty small.

 

[SODACKER]

Jeez. So much partisan testiness. The actual difference between our positions there was pretty small.

I agree. But somehow you still managed to turn the conversation into some Republican stereotype vs Democrat stereotype shit slinging partisan discussion.

 

[Lead]

C'mon man...

I'm saying it in the context that the entire world shouldn't have to get on board or "ready" for a certain system. I overstepped in the way I delivered it though. Had some drinks last night.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I agree. But somehow you still managed to turn the conversation into some Republican stereotype vs Democrat stereotype shit slinging partisan discussion.

Not really. You're just extremely sensitive. I bet you'd even agree that there is a lot of truth to those stereotypes.

 

[SODACKER]

Not really. You're just extremely sensitive. I bet you'd even agree that there is a lot of truth to those stereotypes.

Ha, I wouldn't last long around here if I was sensitive to it, just decided to point it out today. Maybe I'm feeling punchy. And I don't agree with the stereotypes, and if you think about it I doubt you do either. Do we really think that half of America base their voting habits off racism and the other half bases it off the intellectual insight they have. I personally don't.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Ha, I wouldn't last long around here if I was sensitive to it, just decided to point it out today. Maybe I'm feeling punchy. And I don't agree with the stereotypes, and if you think about it I doubt you do either. Do we really think that half of America base their voting habits off racism and the other half bases it off the intellectual insight they have. I personally don't.

That's not what I said. Most Democrats vote based on not wanting Evangelicals (stand-in for Christian fundamentalists) or racists to win, and most Republicans vote based on not wanting someone friendly to minorities, intellectuals or urban types (to repeat a little) to win. That is, cultural resentments drive voting for the majority in each party. I specifically said that policy-focused voters are the minority in each party, and you interpreted that as me saying that "half of America base their voting habits off racism and the other half bases it off the intellectual insight they have." That's clearly false.

 

[PEB]

Tulsi Gabbard just dropped a bomb on Hillary Clinton run for President she stepped down from the co-chair of the DNC to officially support Bernie Sanders run for President.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

I'm saying it in the context that the entire world shouldn't have to get on board or "ready" for a certain system. I overstepped in the way I delivered it though. Had some drinks last night.

Lol, you're such a well composed poster that I thought something might be going on. It's all good.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I am glad ST is coming up so quickly that the ass wooping sanders took in SC won't dominate the media cycle for long if at all. Trump seems to be absolutely drowning out anything else right now.

The only way I can think of to spin this is in showing how wrong polling can be. He was supposed to lose by 25%, not 50%. The polls were wrong by more than a little bit of the margin of error.

 

[Lead]

Lol, you're such a well composed poster that I thought something might be going on. It's all good.

Yea, I've been posting from my phone a lot recently and found it doesn't mix well on a weekend drink night. Those are pretty rare for me though

 

[in the]

No idea where that rudeness comes from or generally why any decent person would think that's an acceptable post. I just made the simple point that the notion that "Bernie just has to communicate to black people that he supported the Civil Rights movement 50 years ago to make inroads with black voters" is very misguided. He needs to communicate that he's the candidate in this election that is the best choice.

I'll be very considerate of your delicate feel feels next time I reply to you.

And people have never, ever, ever, voted for a candidate based on identity.

Ever.




I already mentioned how he needed to broaden his message. Failing to capitalize on his own record for being there on the ground, fighting for the black community, is a massive failure of his campaign and it will cost him this nomination. That should be part of his message, that he has spent almost a lifetime fighting for minorities.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I'll be very considerate of your delicate feel feels next time I reply to you.

And people have never, ever, ever, voted for a candidate based on identity.

Ever.




I already mentioned how he needed to broaden his message. Failing to capitalize on his own record for being there on the ground, fighting for the black community, is a massive failure of his campaign and it will cost him this nomination. That should be part of his message, that he has spent almost a lifetime fighting for minorities.

My question is how do you do this. I am not black, but I do have some experience in the black community. In large part the black community does not consume corporate media. Consensus building within the community is done organically.

This is why there is always this emphasis on black churches and pastors. I have read articles about canvassing barber shops and salons.

Clinton's grip on the black communities establishment leaders make it near impossible in the south. Where populations and cultures are more intermingled, I think this message is out there.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I'll be very considerate of your delicate feel feels next time I reply to you.

Or maybe try to act like a human being. Seriously, who does that? What in my post justifies such boorishness? Your entire response was a crude insult. I've barely even interacted with you before.

And people have never, ever, ever, voted for a candidate based on identity.

Huh?

I already mentioned how he needed to broaden his message. Failing to capitalize on his own record for being there on the ground, fighting for the black community, is a massive failure of his campaign and it will cost him this nomination. That should be part of his message, that he has spent almost a lifetime fighting for minorities.

Again, the notion that Bernie can get black votes by pointing out some old stuff that is irrelevant to the current election is misguided. Why should anyone care? If you want to attract voters, you have to offer a reason, and that means making the case now. Even if the case is based on identity, that doesn't work. Trump isn't trying to say that he was marching against unions or Civil Rights to get racist voters. He's just making his case for why he's their candidate in 2016.

My question is how do you do this. I am not black, but I do have some experience in the black community. In large part the black community does not consume corporate media. Consensus building within the community is done organically.

This is why there is always this emphasis on black churches and pastors. I have read articles about canvassing barber shops and salons.

Clinton's grip on the black communities establishment leaders make it near impossible in the south. Where populations and cultures are more intermingled, I think this message is out there.

And condescension isn't going to work either.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Or maybe try to act like a human being. Seriously, who does that? What in my post justifies such boorishness? Your entire response was a crude insult. I've barely even interacted with you before.



Huh?



Again, the notion that Bernie can get black votes by pointing out some old stuff that is irrelevant to the current election is misguided. Why should anyone care? If you want to attract voters, you have to offer a reason, and that means making the case now. Even if the case is based on identity, that doesn't work. Trump isn't trying to say that he was marching against unions or Civil Rights to get racist voters. He's just making his case for why he's their candidate in 2016.



And condescension isn't going to work either.

That isn't condescending jack. It is not an insult to say the black community still functions as a community in a traditional sense, in building consensus, and does not trust authority in its many forms.

 

[in the]

My question is how do you do this. I am not black, but I do have some experience in the black community. In large part the black community does not consume corporate media. Consensus building within the community is done organically.

This is why there is always this emphasis on black churches and pastors. I have read articles about canvassing barber shops and salons.

Clinton's grip on the black communities establishment leaders make it near impossible in the south. Where populations and cultures are more intermingled, I think this message is out there.

It'd be interesting to see if Sanders even tried to court the black vote. About the only corporate media that would work might be BET, but the best way to win an election is a great ground game. Sanders should have had volunteers working black communities all over South Carolina first, then other states, handing out fliers showing him getting arrested (especially contrasted with Hillary's volunteer work with Barry Goldwater, someone who was very anti-civil rights).

The majority of the black electorate wasn't even born when Sanders was on the ground, fighting for their rights. There's no way they could know unless they majored in Poly Sci. This is a failure of his campaign for not targeting the one demographic that could tilt the field in his favor, had he just put in the effort. But it's too late now, and the black vote is going to ensure Hillary crushes Bernie.

 

[in the]

Or maybe try to act like a human being. Seriously, who does that? What in my post justifies such boorishness? Your entire response was a crude insult. I've barely even interacted with you before.



Huh?



Again, the notion that Bernie can get black votes by pointing out some old stuff that is irrelevant to the current election is misguided. Why should anyone care? If you want to attract voters, you have to offer a reason, and that means making the case now. Even if the case is based on identity, that doesn't work. Trump isn't trying to say that he was marching against unions or Civil Rights to get racist voters. He's just making his case for why he's their candidate in 2016.



And condescension isn't going to work either.

Playing the victim again? You know by now I think you're either very socially awkward or a troll (kudos, I can't tell) and we've been down this road many, many times. The usual discussion is that I make a statement, you reply, I reply and stick to the point, you throw out insults, you get it back, you play the victim. Well, I undercut the typical discussion with you and cut out a few points along the path. The idea we've barely interacted is laughable. Do you have Alzheimer's?

Did you even read my post? Bernie is being seen as just another crusty old white guy, while Hillary is being seen as the wife of the man who kissed a black baby in the early 90s. Hillary wins the recency effect. It's an uphill battle and black people, for the most part, just weren't privy to the decades of work Bernie has done on their behalf. Yes, this is relevant. People want someone who will fight for their interests. It's why a bunch of old people, despite being socially conservative, vote for the Democrats because they (rightly) fear the Republicans will hurt their retirement plans/packages.

Really, this is Poly Sci 101.

 

[SMEAC]

Playing the victim again? You know by now I think you're either very socially awkward or a troll (kudos, I can't tell) and we've been down this road many, many times. The usual discussion is that I make a statement, you reply, I reply and stick to the point, you throw out insults, you get it back, you play the victim. Well, I undercut the typical discussion with you and cut out a few points along the path.

Did you even read my post? Bernie is being seen as just another crusty old white guy, while Hillary is being seen as the wife of the man who kissed a black baby in the early 90s. Hillary wins the recency effect. It's an uphill battle and black people, for the most part, just weren't privy to the decades of work Bernie has done on their behalf. Yes, this is relevant. People want someone who will fight for their interests. It's why a bunch of old people, despite being socially conservative, vote for the Democrats because they (rightly) fear the Republicans will hurt their retirement plans/packages.

Really, this is Poly Sci 101.

InB4 jackbot calls you a lying piece of shit

 

[VivaRevolution]

It'd be interesting to see if Sanders even tried to court the black vote. About the only corporate media that would work might be BET, but the best way to win an election is a great ground game. Sanders should have had volunteers working black communities all over South Carolina first, then other states, handing out fliers showing him getting arrested (especially contrasted with Hillary's volunteer work with Barry Goldwater, someone who was very anti-civil rights).

The majority of the black electorate wasn't even born when Sanders was on the ground, fighting for their rights. There's no way they could know unless they majored in Poly Sci. This is a failure of his campaign for not targeting the one demographic that could tilt the field in his favor, had he just put in the effort. But it's too late now, and the black vote is going to ensure Hillary crushes Bernie.

I agree, that if the campaign would have started in the position it is today, that this would be a failure on the campaigns part, but I would argue that bernie had to move mountains to get where he is today. That winning in New Hampshire, and basically tying in iowa took a lot of resources. That clinton deployed her resources strategically, and that sanders had to respond in kind.

Basically I guess I am arguing that you are correct, it is a failure, but an understandable one.

Edit: BTW I believe he has been on BET twice, once just recently.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Playing the victim again? You know by now I think you're either very socially awkward or a troll (kudos, I can't tell) and we've been down this road many, many times.

Wait a minute. You replied to this:

"I think it's weird that anyone would even think that's relevant. People don't vote to reward people for being good guys. They vote to advance their own interests, and Sanders didn't make that case."

with this:

"You'll have to speak clearer, I couldn't hear you over the sound of Hillary's balls in your mouth."

And I'm the one who is either very socially awkward or a troll? WTF? If you go around acting like that in real life, I'm not sure how you're still alive.

The usual discussion is that I make a statement, you reply, I reply and stick to the point, you throw out insults, you get it back, you play the victim. Well, I undercut the typical discussion with you and cut out a few points along the path. The idea we've barely interacted is laughable. Do you have Alzheimer's?

That's never actually happened. From what I can see, you're just a really nasty individual who doesn't discuss real issues.

Did you even read my post? Bernie is being seen as just another crusty old white guy, while Hillary is being seen as the wife of the man who kissed a black baby in the early 90s.

I read your post, and I responded to it. The notion that all Bernie has to get to get black votes is get the message out there that he marched in the 1960s is obviously wrong and weirdly common.

That isn't condescending jack. It is not an insult to say the black community still functions as a community in a traditional sense, in building consensus, and does not trust authority in its many forms.

Sure, it's condescending. I mean, look, at this point the race is pretty much over anyway so whatever. Just saying that if Bernie wants black votes, the way to get them is to show why he's the better candidate today--why he's going to advance their interests better than other candidates would. The same way to get votes from anyone. The stuff about blacks not watching the news except on BET or something is silly and insulting.