Elections 2016 Democratic South Carolina Primary Thread

[Anung Un Rama]

I have never before mentioned his vote. I wasn't even aware of it until very recently. But I get it. My point is that support for the bill was a mainstream liberal position at the time.

I could have sworn you mentioned it several times in the past, maybe you just argued that the bill had widespread support?
Either way, the reason I quoted that post was to disambiguate Sanders vote from what he actually supported.
And its in stark contrast to Hillary's support of the bill. She was pretty vocal about supporting the bill to bring "superpredators" "to heel" before addressing the causes of crime. Sanders not only prioritized defining the cause, he predicted the negative outcomes, particularly for the black community.

Its like citing Sanders vote on CFMA act as an argument for his support of deregulation. He was opposed to deregulation, but the Clinton administration had attached that bill to a larger bill to fund the federal government.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Ta-Nehisi Coates did a 180 on Bernie Sanders. At first he didn't support him for Sanders' position on reparations, but in evaluating his platform, he came to the conclusion that Sanders' platform inherently addressed black issues after being challenged by Adolph Reed.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Bernie's real problem is that you can't point to anything he's said in support of the black population in the 20 years preceding his candidacy. Hilary can at least point to her associations with Bill Clinton and Barack Obama and leach off their relationships with black America.

I truly don't can't remember Bernie Sanders coming up in anything race related, except now that people are pulling up 40 year old actions (of course, I generally avoid all things Democrat). In all sincerity, what has he done since Bill's 1st term that would shore up his bonafides in black America?

This just isn't true. Sanders has been speaking out against the drug war, crime bills, and the US incarceration rate for decades and has continually cited the disproportionally negative effect these policies are having on the black community.

 

[in the]

lulz

 

[panamaican]

This just isn't true. Sanders has been speaking out against the drug war, crime bills, and the US incarceration rate for decades and has continually cited the disproportionally negative effect these policies are having on the black community.

Now I can't cite Bernie's decades of speeches so I guess I'd need a reference from something that precedes 2014 that specifically points to the black community.

I don't see the general discussion on the drug war or crime bills or US incarceration rates as related to the black community unless the speaker has: 1) been critical since the 1980's, or 2) is making it specifically related to the black community. As I've said before, the drug war was mostly ignored until it started affecting middle class families and college kids instead of just inner cities.

The constant statement that someone being against the drug war is the equivalent of them being vocal/supportive on black issues is extremely dismissive as to the actual issues in the black community. That's not a criticism of Sanders who might be extremely supportive of black issues (despite his supporters inability to articulate how), it's a criticism of people who seem to reduce their understanding of what's happening in black America to some variant of addressing crime.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I could have sworn you mentioned it several times in the past, maybe you just argued that the bill had widespread support?

No. I was in high school when that happened, and my understanding of it had been just kind of what everyone says. Looked it up recently.

And the reasoning is what it is. My point isn't to try to attack him for voting for it, just to note that it had a lot of support among liberals at the time.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Now I can't cite Bernie's decades of speeches so I guess I'd need a reference from something that precedes 2014 that specifically points to the black community.

I don't see the general discussion on the drug war or crime bills or US incarceration rates as related to the black community unless the speaker has: 1) been critical since the 1980's, or 2) is making it specifically related to the black community. As I've said before, the drug war was mostly ignored until it started affecting middle class families and college kids instead of just inner cities.

I can't find anything from the 80s.

1991

1994

The constant statement that someone being against the drug war is the equivalent of them being vocal/supportive on black issues is extremely dismissive as to the actual issues in the black community. That's not a criticism of Sanders who might be extremely supportive of black issues (despite his supporters inability to articulate how), it's a criticism of people who seem to reduce their understanding of what's happening in black America to some variant of addressing crime.

As for the War on Drugs. I don't see why it matters when or why it was brought to the mainstream's attention, its a problem. And its a problem that has had a disproportionally negative effect on the poor, minorities, and blacks specifically. And the Drug War and the Prison Industrial Complex are undeniably linked. So addressing them, while maybe not akin to a new Civil Rights Movement, would right a significant wrong done to minorities in this country.

Let me ask you: How, in your opinion, is Sanders NOT addressing black issues? And contrast that with Clinton's approach.

Here is 1/2 of a good interview with Adolph Reed about Bernie Sanders.

 

[panamaican]

As for the War on Drugs. I don't see why it matters when or why it was brought to the mainstream's attention, its a problem. And its a problem that has had a disproportionally negative effect on the poor, minorities, and blacks specifically. And the Drug War and the Prison Industrial Complex are undeniably linked. So addressing them, while maybe not akin to a new Civil Rights Movement, would right a significant wrong done to minorities in this country.

Let me ask you: How, in your opinion, is Sanders NOT addressing black issues? And contrast that with Clinton's approach.

There are plenty of wrongs done to the black community but if someone wants credit for addressing them as part of their support of the black community then they need to address those wrongs from the perspective of the black community.

As a parallel, imagine if you and I are both affected by the same issue but it's affected you for 30 years and it's only really affected me for 10. A politicians ignores the issue for the first 20 years while it was only affecting you. Then when it starts affecting me, that same politician becomes an advocate for changing that issue. It would be untrue to claim that the politician is concerned about that issue because of how it specifically affects you because that politician ignored the issue until it started affecting others too. So, you might benefit from that advocacy but concern for you isn't what spurred that advocacy.

As for Bernie vs. Clinton - I've never said that Bernie is indifferent to black issues. What I've said is - no one has shown how his concern is any different from Clinton's. Earlier, I cited that the very same year that the NAACP gave Sanders a 97% on his voting record, they gave Clinton a 96%.

Many people keep talking about how great Sanders must be for black people but they fail to actually point out anything specifically pro-black in his messaging since the mid-90's. The closest anyone comes is this generic "Well he's against the War on Drugs and so black people should see that as advocacy for them....because all important issues in the black community can somehow be boiled down to crime. "

 

[Anung Un Rama]

There are plenty of wrongs done to the black community but if someone wants credit for addressing them as part of their support of the black community then they need to address those wrongs from the perspective of the black community.

As a parallel, imagine if you and I are both affected by the same issue but it's affected you for 30 years and it's only really affected me for 10. A politicians ignores the issue for the first 20 years while it was only affecting you. Then when it starts affecting me, that same politician becomes an advocate for changing that issue. It would be untrue to claim that the politician is concerned about that issue because of how it specifically affects you because that politician ignored the issue until it started affecting others too. So, you might benefit from that advocacy but concern for you isn't what spurred that advocacy.

As for Bernie vs. Clinton - I've never said that Bernie is indifferent to black issues. What I've said is - no one has shown how his concern is any different from Clinton's. Earlier, I cited that the very same year that the NAACP gave Sanders a 97% on his voting record, they gave Clinton a 96%.

Many people keep talking about how great Sanders must be for black people but they fail to actually point out anything specifically pro-black in his messaging since the mid-90's. The closest anyone comes is this generic "Well he's against the War on Drugs and so black people should see that as advocacy for them....because all important issues in the black community can somehow be boiled down to crime. "

I didn't mean to imply that you were saying Bernie is indifferent. I was actually asking you, as a black man, what or how hasn't he been addressing concerns of the black community. I quoted Adolph Reed, who specializes in race and American politics, and he seems to feel that, point by point, Sanders' platform pretty much nails it. What say you?

As for the War on Drugs, blacks, crime, etc. I don't see it as associating crime with blacks, only that it is one of the most glaringly racist policies on the books. And I don't see the War on Drugs as a one-off, or stand-alone issue. I see it as one part of our legal system that needs overhauling. For example, as a lawyer, you're probably more aware of the public defender crisis in this country than most of us. And then there are issues like living wage and education K-college that are part of the package, too.

 

[VivaRevolution]

lulz