Social ‘We Are Losing Sovereignty’: How Mexico’s Failures Imperil the US

What a dumb response. I was just wondering why you don't want central American migrants but are okay with Mexican migrants. Why would you automatically interpret my question as being me being okay with central American migrants?

Most Mexican migrants tend to be economic migrants who tend to lay low and work hard long ass hours and a lot of them aren't even looking at permanent migration.

Since Mexico's economy is "so-so" and there are a lot of "safe" cities with jobs in
Mexico, most refugees will just migrate somewhere else in Mexico.

Central Americans on the other hand, these people have nowhere to go, they tend to be more vocal and more annoying and more entitled.

This of course is a general view, there are tons of Central Americans who just want to bust their asses working and cause no trouble, but they get kind of lumped with the rowdy ones.
 
As far Mexico as long as you have presidents in both countries we have now the problem will never get fixed.

Trump will not or cannot fix Mexico either. The best he can do is close the border and try and isolate the US from the problems in Mexico and Central America.
 
As far Mexico as long as you have presidents in both countries we have now the problem will never get fixed.
What?

Trump will not or cannot fix Mexico either. The best he can do is close the border and try and isolate the US from the problems in Mexico and Central America.
We saw how well he closed the border from 2016 to 2020.

Its funny how people still believe in Trump when he literally commanded his army of drones to kill an immigration bill because it would hurt his reelection campaign.
 
Mexico NEEDS to be our greatest economic and security ally in this upcoming century.

If I’m president, my Mexico plan would be:

- Declare Cartel organizations as terrorist organizations.
- Hit cartel infrastructure with drones and SF along with Mexican military.
- Create a special pathway to US citizenship for Mexican citizens.
- Create special consideration for Mexican citizens to work in the US.
- Reduce or eliminate any and all trade barriers between the countries.
- Ensure Mexico becomes a barrier zone from Central American migration.

Can’t overstate how important this is.
The main problems with Mexico are corruption and weak institutions that aren't able to get rid of the narcos.
Example, El Chapo was able to escape multiple times because prisons are a joke there.
Bombing Mexico won't help this.
The Mexicans can easily defeat the cartels in combat. But they aren't able to keep people in prison or go after people that do the money laundering, the corrupt officials that help the cartels etc.
 
Mexico is about to elect somebody named Claudia Shienbaum

I don’t know what it is, but something tells me the immigration thing is about to get exponentially worse.
 
The conflict inside Mexico is largely due to the War on Drugs, the illegality of the drug trade, which created an absolutely out of control black market. The Militarized attempts to stop it only ended up further empowering the cartels, because the balance of money to be made is too far on their side. One of the most brutal and skilled cartels, Los Zetas, were former Mexican Special Ops who we trained and equipped, who realized they could make far much more money working for a cartel, until they disagreed with that leadership and eventually became their own cartel. Pair that with a long History of blatant, unapologetic political corruption and a decimation of the middle class, and you have much of the climate you have now.

What you are essentially suggesting is a land war, the annexing of Mexico. That's what it will become. Only now you can assure it reaches US soil, because cartels have assets here. All this tough talk about needing authoritarian dictatorship, or even MORE Militarized ops in Mexico wont fix the underlying problem, which is an economic problem.
- You eliminate the ability of them making money with drugs, and they would go to another type of crimes.
 
The main problems with Mexico are corruption and weak institutions that aren't able to get rid of the narcos.
Example, El Chapo was able to escape multiple times because prisons are a joke there.
Bombing Mexico won't help this.
The Mexicans can easily defeat the cartels in combat. But they aren't able to keep people in prison or go after people that do the money laundering, the corrupt officials that help the cartels etc.
- This. Even if we have corruption there. We still have people willing to face those threats.
 
- Eddie real name is Eduardo. I highlighted a Eduardo Guerrero at the text in blue.
Well thats offensive to compare a human to a politician JK. I havent thought about him in years i used to watch as a kid and was a big fan of him. This was like 20 years ago...time flies.
 
- You eliminate the ability of them making money with drugs, and they would go to another type of crimes.

I dont agree that they would ALL go to another type of crime. After Prohibition the Italian Mob in the US had their power and influence crippled. Sure there are some gangsters, but the widespread senseless bloodshed was significantly reduced. Only a fraction of them tried to enter the drug market.

You ever seen how the cartels recruit? They recruit just like any other normal employer...by promises of salaries and health care. They have entire PR campaigns to try to contradict that being in a cartel is a life of degeneracy.
 
The conflict in Mexico is largely due to corrupt politicians taking kickbacks from Cartels, the US doesn't presses Mexico much because Mexico largely complies with the main US strategic concerns which is immigration, trade and being neutral on most issues.

I don't think there ought to be a war with Mexico, but there must be ways to pressure Mexico into at least looking into the issue.

The Cartels are not the Taliban, they suck at actual fighting while the guns get all the press, their biggest weapon is money and corrupt politicians.

Sure but their market IS the drug black market. Bringing that market into regulatory power would be.a huge step to deflating their influence because then tons of other corporations with more resources would come into a now legal market.

I'm aware that the Sinaloa, specifically, mainly maintain their gigantic influence due to the ability to buy politicians. But the ability to buy politicians is also an indicator of continued socio-political climate issue. Its happening here in the US on a smaller scale, where politicians initially were just being influenced by corporations due to legal changes that excused corruption, a lack of enforcement of anti-corruption laws that existed, both of which emboldened it to worsen. Now we have two politicians under indictment for being bribed by foreign entities. You wouldnt think anyone in their right mind would vote for people like this, but the public gets manipulated by political establishments (the DNC backing Henry Cuellar KNOWING he was under Federal investigation, because his opponent was loudly anti-corruption), put into states of despair due to economic hardship (the main source of grievance politics), and distracted by Culture War nonsense (redirecting of grievance issues to target the already marginalized). So they don't consistently vote with their brains, and a whole political party is trying to make voting count less and less on top of it.

The more the middle class dies the more corruption happens. The working class is politically disenfranchised, and the wealthy class merely want to do anything to hold onto their wealth, and become wealthier. Half the appeal of the cartels is something different than that. A way for regular dudes to "work" without the Cops f*cking with them or the Government oppressing them.
 
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Mexico is about to elect somebody named Claudia Shienbaum

I don’t know what it is, but something tells me the immigration thing is about to get exponentially worse.
Unfortunately you’re right
 
Well thats offensive to compare a human to a politician JK. I havent thought about him in years i used to watch as a kid and was a big fan of him. This was like 20 years ago...time flies.
- I'm also a big fan of him. I only discovered he passed years after the fact. A all time great inside the ropes and on the mic.
 
I dont agree that they would ALL go to another type of crime. After Prohibition the Italian Mob in the US had their power and influence crippled. Sure there are some gangsters, but the widespread senseless bloodshed was significantly reduced. Only a fraction of them tried to enter the drug market.

You ever seen how the cartels recruit? They recruit just like any other normal employer...by promises of salaries and health care. They have entire PR campaigns to try to contradict that being in a cartel is a life of degeneracy.
- Actually no. But would love if you provided me something to read about it.
 

Mexico’s drug cartels and gangs appear to be playing a wider role in Sunday’s elections than before​


BY FABIOLA SÁNCHEZ AND ARMANDO SOLÍS
Updated 9:57 PM BRT, May 31, 2024

COTIJA, Mexico (AP) — Mexico’s drug cartels and gangs appear to be playing a wider role than before in Sunday’s elections that will determine the presidency, nine governorships and about 19,000 mayorships and other local posts.

The country’s powerful drug cartels have long staged targeted assassinations of mayoral and other local candidates who threaten their control. Gangs in Mexico depend on controlling local police chiefs, and taking a share of municipal budgets; national politics appear to interest them less.

But in the runup to Sunday’s vote, gangs have increasingly taken to spraying whole campaign rallies with gunfire, burning ballots or preventing the setting up of polling stations, and even putting up banners seeking to influence voters.

Security analyst David Saucedo says it’s likely some drug gangs will try to force voters to cast ballots for their favored candidates.

“It it is reasonable to assume that the cartels will mobilize their support bases during Sunday’s elections,” Saucedo said. “They have loyal voters who they have won over through the distribution of food packages, cash, medicine and infrastructure projects. They will use them to support narco-candidates.”

In some places, it appears the gangs are encouraging people to vote while discouraging voting in areas controlled by their rivals.

On Friday, electoral authorities reported that assailants burned a house where ballots were being stored ahead of Sunday in the violence-wracked town of Chicomuselo, in the southern state of Chiapas. While they did not say who was behind the attack, the town is completely dominated by two warring drug cartels, Jalisco and Sinaloa.



On May 14, gunmen apparently linked to a cartel shot and killed 11 people in a single day in Chicomuselo. On May 17, five people were killed along with a mayoral candidate when gunmen opened fire on a crowd in the town of La Concordia, Chiapas, about 45 miles (75 kilometers) east of Chicomuselo.

Targeted assassinations of local candidates continued. On Wednesday, dramatic video images showed a mayoral candidate in the southern state of Guerrero being shot in the head at point-blank rage with a pistol. A total of 31 candidates, almost all running for mayorships, have been killed this year.

But mass attacks on campaign rallies, once exceedingly rare in Mexico, are becoming common, and have killed many more supporters than candidates this year. The effect is intimidating.

On Wednesday, the last official day of campaigning, unidentified gunmen opened fire a couple of blocks away from a mayoral candidate’s final campaign rally in the western state of Michoacan, sending hundreds of people scrambling for safety.

“It seemed like a normal evening, like the campaign closers of other candidates,” said Angélica Chávez, a homemaker who was at the rally in Cotija. “Then there were gunshots, several rounds of gunfire very close. And then people started running and diving to the ground, crouching.”

Chávez was hurt in the stampede and had to take refuge in a local church.

In Celaya, a city in Guanajuato, gunmen opened fire on a campaign event in April, killing a mayoral candidate and wounding three of her supporters.

Saucedo, the analyst, sees the shootings as a sign that narco gangs are no longer willing to see their handpicked candidates lose.

“Rather than allow the victory of a candidate who is not in line with their criminal interests, or allow a candidate linked to a rival drug gang to win, they use this tactic,” Saucedo said. “What we’re seeing in the final stretch is pretty desperate strategy on the part of some groups of drug traffickers.”

Saucedo said that such attempts at narco-control of local politics had been seen previously in some particularly violent states, like Tamaulipas. “What was once limited ... is now spreading to include the whole country,” he said.

The National Electoral Institute says it has had to cancel plans for 170 polling places, mostly in Chiapas and Michoacan and mostly because of security problems. In Chiapas, electoral authorities say there are places they can’t even go to. While that’s a tiny fraction of the country’s 170,858 polling places, it’s disturbing.

And in the northern border city of Nuevo Laredo, a shadowy group that local media reports link to the dominant Northeast drug cartel has put up posters claiming one mayoral candidate is linked to the rival Gulf drug cartel.

Authorities have not confirmed the origin of the crude poster, which includes a photoshopped image of the candidate waving an assault rifle and wearing a bulletproof vest with the Gulf cartel’s insignia.

In the state of Morelos, just south of Mexico City, residents awoke this week to find a banner strung over a road claiming a gubernatorial candidate was tied to rival drug gangs. The banner was signed by a local drug boss whose name is unknown, “the Commander of the Three Letters.”

Another apparently gang-related banner threatened that anyone trying to buy votes would be “punished severely.” That banner was signed by “Those who have always called the shots here.”

Such events appear to indicate that past calculations by the cartels — take out the strongest candidate you don’t like, and the remaining major-party candidate will win by default — have become more complicated.

In one town in Michoacan, Maravatio, the gangs apparently tried to eliminate any doubts as to who will win this year; they killed off three candidates for town mayor who were apparently not to their liking.

https://apnews.com/article/mexico-drug-cartels-violence-elections-43b1689bff1b38c68e8428a74c2e9a83
 
Sure but their market IS the drug black market. Bringing that market into regulatory power would be.a huge step to deflating their influence because then tons of other corporations with more resources would come into a now legal market.

I'm aware that the Sinaloa, specifically, mainly maintain their gigantic influence due to the ability to buy politicians. But the ability to buy politicians is also an indicator of continued socio-political climate issue. Its happening here in the US on a smaller scale, where politicians initially were just being influenced by corporations due to legal changes that excused corruption, a lack of enforcement of anti-corruption laws that existed, both of which emboldened it to worsen. Now we have two politicians under indictment for being bribed by foreign entities. You wouldnt think anyone in their right mind would vote for people like this, but the public gets manipulated by political establishments (the DNC backing Henry Cuellar KNOWING he was under Federal investigation, because his opponent was loudly anti-corruption), put into states of despair due to economic hardship (the main source of grievance politics), and distracted by Culture War nonsense (redirecting of grievance issues to target the already marginalized). So they don't consistently vote with their brains, and a whole political party is trying to make voting count less and less on top of it.

The more the middle class dies the more corruption happens. The working class is politically disenfranchised, and the wealthy class merely want to do anything to hold onto their wealth, and become wealthier. Half the appeal of the cartels is something different than that. A way for regular dudes to "work" without the Cops f*cking with them or the Government oppressing them.
- I did another thread about meth traffic in Mexico. How they transitione from several continents. They dont have just mexican or american politics at their pokets.
 
The conflict in Mexico is largely due to corrupt politicians taking kickbacks from Cartels, the US doesn't presses Mexico much because Mexico largely complies with the main US strategic concerns which is immigration, trade and being neutral on most issues.

I don't think there ought to be a war with Mexico, but there must be ways to pressure Mexico into at least looking into the issue.

The Cartels are not the Taliban, they suck at actual fighting while the guns get all the press, their biggest weapon is money and corrupt politicians.
- Can you recomend a read about it?
 
- Can you recomend a read about it?

Read about what? just look at any confrontation between the army and cartels, and the Mexican army is probably the most underequipped (for conventional war) in the whole continent.

Mexico doesn't has a single tank or tracked APC, its mostly a COIN army that relies entirely on the US for protection.

The Mexican Navy is somewhat better equipped but not actually equipped for a conventional fight, mostly anti-piracy and coast guard functions.
 
Read about what? just look at any confrontation between the army and cartels, and the Mexican army is probably the most underequipped (for conventional war) in the whole continent.

Mexico doesn't has a single tank or tracked APC, its mostly a COIN army that relies entirely on the US for protection.

The Mexican Navy is somewhat better equipped but not actually equipped for a conventional fight, mostly anti-piracy and coast guard functions.
- Is that the cartels get reported as super-power-houses with pictures of members in badass bullet-proof armours, and people always say they former military. I used to think that was true.:(

16133537.jpeg
 
- Is that the cartels get reported as super-power-houses with pictures of members in badass bullet-proof armours, and people always say they former military. I used to think that was true.:(

16133537.jpeg

Some are but the vast majority of cannon meat are just junkies.

Former military guys are more prized for other skills and relegated mostly to being bodyguards or trainers.
 
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