(WMMA) The myth that 115lbs is a deeper/better division than 135lbs. (JJs poor competition)

[Tachy]

135 seems like the soccer mom division of one dimensional fighters.

115, to me at least, has the better fighters and the more well rounded skillsets....unless you are just a hater

There are a couple of exceptions in 135, but JJ is one of the best women's fighters out there, along with Cyborg and Anderson, which is the real fight we need to see in WMMA

 

[MayhemMonkey]

 

[FrankieNYC]

Everytime someone saves a thread with an ass gif, this is the one that should be used.

or ...

 

[MayhemMonkey]

or ...

not even close

 

[lsa]

not even close

be nice!

 

[Xuh]

I see quite a few people saying this. Am I the only one who thinks 135 has clearly got better competitors than 115lbs ?

Some people are saying that Joanna's striking is technically one of the best, regardless of weight/gender, in the whole of MMA/the UFC. May I ask WHO she has beaten who has a solid, respectable striking background ?

It's not striking, it's MMA.
You can do great in MMA with dogshit striking - if you're good enough elsewhere.
I don't know why this is so difficult for people to understand still.

and 115 >> 135. Bethe would never make the top 10 or even get to fight recent ex champs/title contenders if she was 115 for instance.

Talk about Valentina kinda proves that (also your fixation on her seems to flag your striker bias even further). She'll probably beat Nunes. Then the 135 champ will be a natural 125er, who beat the 135 champ, who has a 1st round KO over the 145 champ. And her most solid contender will be.... the current 115 champ.

It doesn't matter if fe. Grasso hasn't fought outside of MMA, the sport is MMA she's a great MMA fighter and prospect. Where are the prospects like that at 135? they don't exist.
What are Conor's achievements outside of MMA, btw? Or Stipe's? or Mighty Mouse's? or Garbrandt? or GSP? etc


as for grappling:
Gadelha > any 135er at BJJ
Suarez > any 115er at Wrestling (where are the prospects like Suarez at 135? they don't exist). (Yes, including McMann; & I don't think Cat was ever US wrestling champion).
Judo died with Ronda

 

[Tachy]

 

[kirsky]

People can call it deeper all they like. All I'm saying is, at the tops of the divisions, the most talented members of each division...I see multiple competent strikers @ 135lbs. I see only one at 115lbs.

Grappling wise, 135lbs has a few more wrestlers. Not to mention their wrestlers are better credentialed than the likes of Esparza. Especially if we include recent retirees in Ronda & Miesha.

"I see multiple competent strikers @ 135lbs" you meant Holm, Germaine and Valentina (second one fought once a year or every two years, third one was signed the moment when Ronda's stardom was gone?).
If we talk about grappling was Meisha that good grappler ( didnt watch many of her fights, thats why this question?), Ronda got good grappling credentials, but lets be honest judo at highest levels of mma is almost useless ( it does help, but still...).

 

[Co-Co Zola]

"I see multiple competent strikers @ 135lbs" you meant Holm, Germaine and Valentina (second one fought once a year or every two years, third one was signed the moment when Ronda's stardom was gone?).
If we talk about grappling was Meisha that good grappler ( didnt watch many of her fights, thats why this question?), Ronda got good grappling credentials, but lets be honest judo at highest levels of mma is almost useless ( it does help, but still...).

Tate, McMann, Rousey, Zingano, Shevchenko & Pena are all better grapplers than pretty much everyone @ 115lbs that I can think off.

 

[leto1776]

People can call it deeper all they like. All I'm saying is, at the tops of the divisions, the most talented members of each division...I see multiple competent strikers @ 135lbs. I see only one at 115lbs.

Grappling wise, 135lbs has a few more wrestlers. Not to mention their wrestlers are better credentialed than the likes of Esparza. Especially if we include recent retirees in Ronda & Miesha.

Esparza was an All American. Nobody has better wrestling credentials than that at 135.

 

[Fuzzybabyducks]

 

[ClckwrkOra]

I see quite a few people saying this. Am I the only one who thinks 135 has clearly got better competitors than 115lbs ?

Some people are saying that Joanna's striking is technically one of the best, regardless of weight/gender, in the whole of MMA/the UFC. May I ask WHO she has beaten who has a solid, respectable striking background ?

115 comes across to me as the division full of jack-of-all-trades master of none. Women who have poor boxing, wrestling and BJJ for the most part. That is, their bases are MMA level, none are world champions in their respective backgrounds. Many are 'mixed martial artists' as opposed to being great boxers, judokas and so on.

Joanna's competitors inside the UFC.
Esparza, 2 time all american wrestler.
Penne, trains BJJ. Has never competed outside of MMA.
Letourneau, trains 'boxing/kickboxing'. Has only ever competed in MMA.
Gadelha, multiple BJJ championships.
Kowalkiewicz, started training Krav Maga when she was 16. No championships/never competed outside of MMA.
Andrade, BJJ background, no titles/accolades. Only ever competed in MMA.
Lima, no background in nothing. A 'mixed martial artist'.

So JJ has fought one lady with an okay wrestling background. One lady with a decent BJJ background and a bunch of 'mixed martial artists'.

She has NEVER fought a talented striker in all her MMA career. The striking of all her opponents range from embarrassing to extremely mediocre. Did you see Andrades striking last night ? She ducks her head, looks at the ground, runs aimlessly forward windmilling hoping something lands.




Other 115lbers...
Waterson, Karate background. No championships. Never competed outside of MMA.
Namajunas, Taekwondo background. No championships. Never competed outside of MMA.
Van Zant, background in dancing. No championships. Never competed outside of MMA.
Grasso, no nothing. Never competed outside of MMA.

135lbs has/has had...
An Olympic silver medalist Freestyle Wrestler, Sara McMann. (she has vast amounts of experience in wrestling, to many achievements to list).
An Olympic bronze medalist in Judoka, Ronda Rousey.
Fila Grappling world silver medalist, Miesha Tate.
4 time all american and national champion in Womens Wrestling, Cat Zingano.

Here are the strikers...

Holly Holm
33-2-3 Boxing record.
2-1 Kickboxing record.
Countless titles at multiples weight divisions in Womens Boxing.

Germaine de Randamie
37-0 Muay Thai record. Multiple world championships.

Valentina Shevchenko
58-2-1 Muay Thai record.
2-0 Boxing record.
Countless world titles spanning multiple divisions in Muay Thai.


You then have the current champion Amanda Nunes who has never competed outside of MMA, but has heavy hands with many T/KO victories. Something that can't be said for anyone at 115lbs.



Cliffs:
- 135lbs > 115lbs
- JJ has fought poor competition, no one she has fought is a capable striker. She has fought one wrestler in her whole UFC career.

Joanna went 27-3-1 as a pro muay thai fighter, winning four European championships.

She went 37-3 as an amateur, taking five world championships.

Winning on the feet in MMA is one thing. Winning in pro muay thai is something else entirely.

 

[King of Fists]

Deeper gene pool at 115 and 125 for women. 135 is not a natural weight class for them.

Yeah that's not true, the average female weighs like 160.

Even if you say thats cause they are fat, consider the average female height in America is 5'4" which for a medium-framed female means a healthy weight is 124-138 lbs. Which is basically the 135 lb weight class, if we're going by "natural weight" meaning healthy weight for the average in-shape female.

 

[Co-Co Zola]

'Joanna fans' - "Joanna is by far the best 115lber, none of these girls can beat her. Her striking is on a whole other level."

Me - "Joanna is by far the best 115lber, none of these girls can beat her. Her striking is on a whole other level. No one in her division is a great striker".

'Joanna fans' - "you're a hater".





She has never fought a Holm, Shevchenko, de Randamie or Nunes in MMA.

I have asked multiple times today, and I'll do it once more. Can anyone name me ONE good striker that Joanna has faced ?

Don't bother answering that, I'm just a hater.

 

[Fuzzybabyducks]

Joanna went 27-3-1 as a pro muay thai fighter, winning four European championships.

She went 37-3 as an amateur, taking five world championships.

Winning on the feet in MMA is one thing. Winning in pro muay thai is something else entirely.

yeah I really dont get the "hasnt fought a good striker in MMA" thing he is going with..

 

[ClckwrkOra]

yeah I really dont get the "hasnt fought a good striker in MMA" thing he is going with..

A lot of people do this. It's weird how they obsess over MMA and yet don't even look at fighters' Wikipedia pages.

 

[Co-Co Zola]

Esparza was an All American. Nobody has better wrestling credentials than that at 135.

I know Esparza was an all american, twice in fact, I listed that in my OP.

And I think you'll find their are multiple Women @ 135lbs who have better credentials. I listed them in my OP. Cat Zingano is a 4 time all american for starters. Not to mention McMann.

 

[Co-Co Zola]

A lot of people do this. It's weird how they obsess over MMA and yet don't even look at fighters' Wikipedia pages.

Name 'em.

Name the good strikers she has fought.

 

[MilesAbove]

Fans can't seem to wrap their brains around simple things....

Dominant Champs make divisions look weak.
Parity makes haters say "they're all shit"

Just enjoy the fights. If they are fun to watch then hooray.

 

[Woliwo]

It's true.
Still think Joanna and Claudia are amazing fighters.