(WMMA) The myth that 115lbs is a deeper/better division than 135lbs. (JJs poor competition)

[leto1776]

I know Esparza was an all american, twice in fact, I listed that in my OP.

And I think you'll find their are multiple Women @ 135lbs who have better credentials. I listed them in my OP. Cat Zingano is a 4 time all american for starters. Not to mention McMann.

Four time all American who got beat on the ground by Pena, who has no major credentials.

Credentials don't mean shit in mma.

 

[ClckwrkOra]

Name 'em.

Name the good strikers she has fought.

As I noted, she was 27-3-1 as a pro muay thai fighter. She went 37-3 as an amateur muay fighter.

She won five amateur world championships in muay thai and four more European championships.

Pro muay thai fighters are, by definition, good at stand-up. People who fight in amateur muay thai ain't nothing to sneeze at, either.

 

[HHJ]

'Joanna fans' - "Joanna is by far the best 115lber, none of these girls can beat her. Her striking is on a whole other level."

Me - "Joanna is by far the best 115lber, none of these girls can beat her. Her striking is on a whole other level. No one in her division is a great striker".

'Joanna fans' - "you're a hater".





She has never fought a Holm, Shevchenko, de Randamie or Nunes in MMA.

I have asked multiple times today, and I'll do it once more. Can anyone name me ONE good striker that Joanna has faced ?

Don't bother answering that, I'm just a hater.

Bullshit hater

more like

Joanna fans' - "Joanna is by far the best 115lber, none of these girls can beat her. Her striking is on a whole other level."

hater - "Joanna is by far the best 115lber, none of these girls can beat her. because they all suck,poor talent at 115,if she moves up to 125 she will be automatically destroyed".

 

[Co-Co Zola]

As I noted, she was 27-3-1 as a pro muay thai fighter. She went 37-3 as an amateur muay fighter.

She won five amateur world championships in muay thai and four more European championships.

Pro muay thai fighters are, by definition, good at stand-up. People who fight in amateur muay thai ain't nothing to sneeze at, either.

Sorry buddy, I think their is a misunderstanding.

I'm talking about in MMA, the UFC. She hasn't fought a top striker during her UFC thus far.

I know of her Muay Thai credentials. Joanna is a great striker. The rest of the girls @ 115lbs in the UFC...not so much.

 

[ClckwrkOra]

Sorry buddy, I think their is a misunderstanding.

I'm talking about in MMA, the UFC. She hasn't fought a top striker during her UFC thus far.

I know of her Muay Thai credentials. Joanna is a great striker. The rest of the girls @ 115lbs in the UFC...not so much.

The two UFC people she'd to face would be Valentina Shevchenko (who beat Joanna two or three times in muay thai) and Holly Holm.

Not sure the weight differences would be surmountable. But those would be intriguing fights.

Though I would settle for her taking on Floyd Mayweather in a bar.

 

[Co-Co Zola]

Bullshit hater

more like

Joanna fans' - "Joanna is by far the best 115lber, none of these girls can beat her. Her striking is on a whole other level."

hater - "Joanna is by far the best 115lber, none of these girls can beat her. because they all suck,poor talent at 115,if she moves up to 125 she will be automatically destroyed".

Sure thing chum.

I favor JJ over pretty much everyone at 125lbs (that I can think off), except Valentina. Valentina would beat her, other than that JJ would be favored. Unless some of the bigger grapplers at 135lbs can make the cut, they could pose some threats.

I'm not even saying JJ couldn't beat an elite wrestler, or striker. Like you seem to be thinking. All I'm saying is she hasn't been facing them, she hasn't truly been tested in her MMA career, outside of Gadelha putting up a fight. She has great TDD and striking, she will beat most people as...she's a great striker and most people can't get her down and keep her their. It's as simple as.

I do think she'd have a hard time against the likes of Holm, Nunes, de Randamie...obviously. As they're much larger than she is, they're not fair fights really. The same applies to the likes of say, Ronda or Zingano.

But feel free to keep making stuff up.

 

[BigMuffler]

I see quite a few people saying this. Am I the only one who thinks 135 has clearly got better competitors than 115lbs ?

Some people are saying that Joanna's striking is technically one of the best, regardless of weight/gender, in the whole of MMA/the UFC. May I ask WHO she has beaten who has a solid, respectable striking background ?

115 comes across to me as the division full of jack-of-all-trades master of none. Women who have poor boxing, wrestling and BJJ for the most part. That is, their bases are MMA level, none are world champions in their respective backgrounds. Many are 'mixed martial artists' as opposed to being great boxers, judokas and so on.

Joanna's competitors inside the UFC.
Esparza, 2 time all american wrestler.
Penne, trains BJJ. Has never competed outside of MMA.
Letourneau, trains 'boxing/kickboxing'. Has only ever competed in MMA.
Gadelha, multiple BJJ championships.
Kowalkiewicz, started training Krav Maga when she was 16. No championships/never competed outside of MMA.
Andrade, BJJ background, no titles/accolades. Only ever competed in MMA.
Lima, no background in nothing. A 'mixed martial artist'.

So JJ has fought one lady with an okay wrestling background. One lady with a decent BJJ background and a bunch of 'mixed martial artists'.

She has NEVER fought a talented striker in all her MMA career. The striking of all her opponents range from embarrassing to extremely mediocre. Did you see Andrades striking last night ? She ducks her head, looks at the ground, runs aimlessly forward windmilling hoping something lands.




Other 115lbers...
Waterson, Karate background. No championships. Never competed outside of MMA.
Namajunas, Taekwondo background. No championships. Never competed outside of MMA.
Van Zant, background in dancing. No championships. Never competed outside of MMA.
Grasso, no nothing. Never competed outside of MMA.

135lbs has/has had...
An Olympic silver medalist Freestyle Wrestler, Sara McMann. (she has vast amounts of experience in wrestling, to many achievements to list).
An Olympic bronze medalist in Judoka, Ronda Rousey.
Fila Grappling world silver medalist, Miesha Tate.
4 time all american and national champion in Womens Wrestling, Cat Zingano.

Here are the strikers...

Holly Holm
33-2-3 Boxing record.
2-1 Kickboxing record.
Countless titles at multiples weight divisions in Womens Boxing.

Germaine de Randamie
37-0 Muay Thai record. Multiple world championships.

Valentina Shevchenko
58-2-1 Muay Thai record.
2-0 Boxing record.
Countless world titles spanning multiple divisions in Muay Thai.


You then have the current champion Amanda Nunes who has never competed outside of MMA, but has heavy hands with many T/KO victories. Something that can't be said for anyone at 115lbs.



Cliffs:
- 135lbs > 115lbs
- JJ has fought poor competition, no one she has fought is a capable striker. She has fought one wrestler in her whole UFC career.

I would give you a 100 likes if I could TS and agree 100%.

Although you probably got this idea from seeing my "lack of ACTUAL wrestling backgrounds at 115" posts.

 

[Co-Co Zola]

I would give you a 100 likes if I could TS and agree 100%.

Although you probably got this idea from seeing my "lack of ACTUAL wrestling backgrounds at 115" posts.

Never saw your post buddy. Promise.

But great minds think alike.

 

[BigMuffler]

Its simple coz, there is more women at 115 lbs then 125 etc... so its deeper talent pull... not to mention 135lbs was made for ronda.

No there are NOT more women than 115 than 125 at all and there are not even more women at 115 than 135.

https://www.tapology.com/rankings/groups/current

115: 306 fighters worldwide
125: 392
135: 317

Don't speak if you don't know what the hell you're talking about and ESPECIALLY don't make stupid assumptions based on what YOU hold as "common sense."

PS. 135 was the most established division (though not the "deepest" numbers wise) before Ronda ever became known.

 

[BigMuffler]

Yeah that's not true, the average female weighs like 160.

Even if you say thats cause they are fat, consider the average female height in America is 5'4" which for a medium-framed female means a healthy weight is 124-138 lbs. Which is basically the 135 lb weight class, if we're going by "natural weight" meaning healthy weight for the average in-shape female.

https://www.tapology.com/rankings/groups/current

115 - 306 fighters worldwide
135 - 317

People here just have a shit sense of "common" sense aka brainwashed by media to think 145-150 lbs is an abnormal weight for a woman who trains grappling and might *gasp* HAVE MUSCLES!

 

[MayhemMonkey]

 

[Better Every Day]

Jo Jo Calderwood's striking competition credentials were rightly pointed out by @MayhemMonkey .

Let me point out a few more by fighters in the 115 lbs division:

Angela Hill: World Kickboxing Association North American Muay Thai champion.

Justine Kish: World Muay Thai Council pro champion, Bangla Stadium Muay Thai Champion,
North Carolina State Golden Gloves Champion.

Felice Herrig: U.S. champion pro Muay Thai in the International Kickboxing Federation, with a #2 ranking in the world for that organization achieved.

Amanda Bobby Cooper: Golden Gloves champion, Michigan, twice.

Maryna Moroz: Ukrainian National Boxing Team, Master of Sports in boxing, Master of Sports in kickboxing.

Tecia Torres: Amateur championships with both the International Muay Thai Council and the International Kickboxing Federation.

I might have missed some.

 

[BigMuffler]

Never saw your post buddy. Promise.

But great minds think alike.

Some other absolute moron posted there are more women at 115 than at 125 clearly without even researching the topic. Just like people used to say 115 and even 105 were "much" deeper than 135 even though 115 has about the same number as 135 and 105 has LESS THAN HALF AS MANY (about the same number as 145).

FUCK "common sense" aka bullshit assumptions based on fantasies of what the world "should" be like.

 

[MayhemMonkey]

Jo Jo Calderwood's striking competition credentials were rightly pointed out by @MayhemMonkey .

Let me point out a few more by fighters in the 115 lbs division:

Angela Hill: World Kickboxing Association North American Muay Thai champion.

Justine Kish: World Muay Thai Council pro champion, Bangla Stadium Muay Thai Champion,
North Carolina State Golden Gloves Champion.

Amanda Bobby Cooper: Golden Gloves champion, Michigan, twice.

Felice Herrig: U.S. champion pro Muay Thai in the International Kickboxing Federation, with a #2 ranking in the world for that organization achieved.

Maryna Moroz: Ukrainian National Boxing Team, Master of Sports in boxing, Master of Sports in kickboxing.

Tecia Torres: Amateur championships with both the International Muay Thai Council and the International Kickboxing Federation.

I might have missed some.

bangla stadium champion isnt really something to gloat about

 

[noc]

List one good striker Joanna has fought. Gadelha is okay for a 115lber who has no background in striking. Karolina has heart and is sort of okay. That's it buddy.

Name one good wrestler Joanna has fought. Esparza is the only wrestler she has fought in the UFC. This is a fact. 135lbs has much better wrestlers if we're being honest.

I'm not a hater. I'm looking at the credentials, and the showings these ladies are putting in. You can not call what Jessica Andrade did last night, 'striking'.

This is not striking fighting championships

 

[Kaybee]

Let's compare divisions then... Note that I removed Ronda and GDR from the 135 rankings because the former is retired and the latter is fighting at 145

WSW
1 Joanna Jedrzejczyk
2 Claudia Gadelha
3 Karolina Kowalkiewicz
4 Jessica Andrade
5 Rose Namajunas
6 Tecia Torres
7 Michelle Waterson
8 Joanne Calderwood
9 Randa Markos
10 Carla Esparza

WBW
1 Amanda Nunes
2 Valentina Shevchenko
3 Julianna Pena
4 Raquel Pennington
5 Holly Holm
6 Sara McMann
7 Cat Zingano
8 Liz Carmouche
9 Alexis Davis
10 Bethe Correia

I think Shev is the most complete fighter in WMMA, but you can't be serious if you think that outside of the - say top 2 that WBW is deeper. Looking at the WBW rankings I'm half surprised that Jessica Eye isn't still ranked. I don't care if WBW has more specialists; unless you are a Maia-level specialist you aren't going anywhere.

 

[BigMuffler]

Let's compare divisions then... Note that I removed Ronda and GDR from the 135 rankings because the former is retired and the latter is fighting at 145

WSW
1 Joanna Jedrzejczyk
2 Claudia Gadelha
3 Karolina Kowalkiewicz
4 Jessica Andrade
5 Rose Namajunas
6 Tecia Torres
7 Michelle Waterson
8 Joanne Calderwood
9 Randa Markos
10 Carla Esparza

WBW
1 Amanda Nunes
2 Valentina Shevchenko
3 Julianna Pena
4 Raquel Pennington
5 Holly Holm
6 Sara McMann
7 Cat Zingano
8 Liz Carmouche
9 Alexis Davis
10 Bethe Correia

I think Shev is the most complete fighter in WMMA, but you can't be serious if you think that outside of the - say top 2 that WBW is deeper. Looking at the WBW rankings I'm half surprised that Jessica Eye isn't still ranked. I don't care if WBW has more specialists; unless you are a Maia-level specialist you aren't going anywhere.

WBW's top 10 looks better to me from #5-9 as well as the top 2.

 

[curryjunkie]

135 seems like the soccer mom division of one dimensional fighters.

115, to me at least, has the better fighters and the more well rounded skillsets....unless you are just a hater

There are a couple of exceptions in 135, but JJ is one of the best women's fighters out there, along with Cyborg and Anderson, which is the real fight we need to see in WMMA

you were doing so well, and then you mentioned cyborg....

 

[BigMuffler]

you were doing so well, and then you mentioned cyborg....

As a well known Cyborg hater he then mentioned Anderson, objectively that's much worse than mentioning Cyborg.

*hides from Drake*

 

[curryjunkie]

Jo Jo Calderwood's striking competition credentials were rightly pointed out by @MayhemMonkey .

Let me point out a few more by fighters in the 115 lbs division:

Angela Hill: World Kickboxing Association North American Muay Thai champion.

Justine Kish: World Muay Thai Council pro champion, Bangla Stadium Muay Thai Champion,
North Carolina State Golden Gloves Champion.

Felice Herrig: U.S. champion pro Muay Thai in the International Kickboxing Federation, with a #2 ranking in the world for that organization achieved.

Amanda Bobby Cooper: Golden Gloves champion, Michigan, twice.

Maryna Moroz: Ukrainian National Boxing Team, Master of Sports in boxing, Master of Sports in kickboxing.

Tecia Torres: Amateur championships with both the International Muay Thai Council and the International Kickboxing Federation.

I might have missed some.

while i think straweight is deeper, i think golden gloves and muay thai titles vary wildly in quality, and what the fuck is master of sports?