Will UFC still become bigger or go down before 2020?

[Sakuraba7]

KSW is pretty big too is it not?

Yep. Huge in Poland, but don't see it covering much territory overseas. But UFC has been struggling to compete with KSW's audiences there as well. So add it to the list.

 

[rorschach51]

I wanted to isolate that reply, because you make a lot of sense.
Live sports is at a premium.
The UFC is the only sports programming who's rights are up for a few years & that puts them in a better position. NBC is wanting to get a sports franchise to go across their platforms & as of now is the top bidder against Fox.
That is the biggest reason Vince thinks the XFL can work in 2020. Platforms want live sports because they are less affected by DVR & delayed viewership & advertisers still get charged a premium.

I just read somewhere that PFL is relaunching this year over NBCSN, NBC Sports App, NBCSports.com and their Facebook page. There idea of a actual MMA league with a season and playoffs is intriguing to me. I will be watching at least at first to see how it looks.

 

[Sakuraba7]

I just read somewhere that PFL is relaunching this year over NBCSN, NBC Sports App, NBCSports.com and their Facebook page. There idea of a actual MMA league with a season and playoffs is intriguing to me. I will be watching at least at first to see how it looks.

They really need to solidify themselves in a core market, build a base there. All this "doing shows all over the world" does jack shit. I recommend they settle in California, maybe other cities like New York and Jersey as secondary markets where they venture off once in a while. But Cali cities tend to get very loyal if you can build a following. It worked well for Strikeforce and Coker.

 

[original doom]

the ufc is over leveraged. realistically the variois networks could just say no to whatever price wme are asking. therefore forcing a firesale of all fighters and a far cheaper tv deal for say fox.

 

[Steve-French]

You sure its "new" fans that just want to see it fail? Are we pretending like there weren't millions of people who watched PRIDE, Strikeforce and other orgs? I always saw UFC as the B league to PRIDE's A league.

And you say "talent split up all over the place" as if that isn't already the case with fighters in ACB, FNG and overseas promotions? These are promotions that BREED fighters, UFC doesn't grow fighters on trees you know, it signs guys from other orgs.

UFC barely had much international talent when PRIDE was on top until it bought out those contracts, but it still lacked the heavyweight division which then moved to Affliction and Strikeforce. UFC bought out the BW/FW talent from WEC. But while those carpets were swept up, other promotions have taken their place churning out new and unexplored talent from new and unexplored regions.

You didn't see fighters in one spot because the UFC hated co-promotions –except that one tournament in PRIDE where Chuck Liddel got destroyed by Rampage; that wasn't a problem for Strikeforce or M-1 or PRIDE or K-1 who were open to cross-promoting. DREAM and SENGOKU did cross-promotions, PRIDE and K-1 did it, Strikeforce and M-1 did it. UFC didn't want to.

That's no justification for a monopoly like you allude to; competition is good for the consumer. Your idea that there being 1 major org means ALL the best fighters are in it, is delusion. It just means there's a whole world of fighters you don't know exists because 1 promotion can't possibly house them all.

However you want to cut it the majority of the top talent is in the UFC. Do you follow boxing? If so how can you not see that co-promoting is bad for the fans? I agree that it's better for the fighters, but a fighter's salary is something that is neither my business or a concern of mine.

The one dominant league is better for the fans. Look how much pussy footing went on between Mayweather and Paquiao, or look at the state of the HW boxing scene. The fight to make right now without a doubt is Wylder vs Joshua, but we'll be lucky if see it before the end of 2019.

Having the majority of the talent under the same roof means that more times than not we get the best fighting the best. Not the best taking showcase fights to help a line themselves with another promotion. The whole co-promotion utopia sounds good on paper, but in the end it's bad for the fans.

 

[Sakuraba7]

However you want to cut it the majority of the top talent is in the UFC. Do you follow boxing? If so how can you not see that co-promoting is bad for the fans? I agree that it's better for the fighters, but a fighter's salary is something that is neither my business or a concern of mine.

The one dominant league is better for the fans. Look how much pussy footing went on between Mayweather and Paquiao, or look at the state of the HW boxing scene. The fight to make right now without a doubt is Wylder vs Joshua, but we'll be lucky if see it before the end of 2019.

Having the majority of the talent under the same roof means that more times than not we get the best fighting the best. Not the best taking showcase fights to help a line themselves with another promotion. The whole co-promotion utopia sounds good on paper, but in the end it's bad for the fans.

You assume the best is just going to magically be in the UFC, or whichever the 1 top org is. It isn't. The only reason you were even able to make half that other list, was because there was another org or three that made those fighters into stars so you could even include them in the debate.

Yes, I do follow boxing. There are fights that take years because sometimes fighters duck or fighters want to be paid more (you already have that problem in the UFC). Boxing allows fighters to "effectively" promote themselves where they can set their own ceilings and bottoms for pay. Boxing still has co-promotions which the UFC doesn't. Boxing allows fighters from the deep corners of Asia, Africa and Europe to emerge that you would never see in the UFC if it wasn't other orgs bringing them up and building them into stars/prospects.

You are effectively asking for the NFL of MMA, whereas boxing (and MMA outside the UFC) is like soccer: a sport with leagues all around the world creating fanbases and talent around the world. I would ideally like 3 or 4 top orgs, not just 1. That way the sport is still follow-able for fans and we have choice. And there can be occasional cross-promotion events, unlike where the 1 top guy doesn't want to work with anybody.

 

[ncboy]

Bellator rises

 

[Paynebringer]

This is what UFC will look like in 2020

What did just watch @WaylonMercy5150 ...?

 

[WaylonMercy5150]

What did just watch @WaylonMercy5150 ...?

X-Arm. 1/2 MMA, 1/2 Arm Wrestling, 100% intensity.

 

[Steve-French]

You assume the best is just going to magically be in the UFC, or whichever the 1 top org is. It isn't. The only reason you were even able to make half that other list, was because there was another org or three that made those fighters into stars so you could even include them in the debate.

Yes, I do follow boxing. There are fights that take years because sometimes fighters duck or fighters want to be paid more (you already have that problem in the UFC). Boxing allows fighters to "effectively" promote themselves where they can set their own ceilings and bottoms for pay. Boxing still has co-promotions which the UFC doesn't. Boxing allows fighters from the deep corners of Asia, Africa and Europe to emerge that you would never see in the UFC if it wasn't other orgs bringing them up and building them into stars/prospects.

You are effectively asking for the NFL of MMA, whereas boxing (and MMA outside the UFC) is like soccer: a sport with leagues all around the world creating fanbases and talent around the world. I would ideally like 3 or 4 top orgs, not just 1. That way the sport is still follow-able for fans and we have choice. And there can be occasional cross-promotion events, unlike where the 1 top guy doesn't want to work with anybody.

I'm not saying there aren't feeder leagues and regional circuits I don't know where you got that. The UFC has been known to work with the AXS TV fight leagues, the WSOF, and several other regional promotions around the country that build up these fighters.

There is a lot of unknown talent coming out of Russia right now to, but most all of these fighters have the goal of making it to the UFC which is known as the pinnacle of the sport of MMA in the sport today. I'm not quite sure with what you're trying to argue with me about here.

 

[Paynebringer]

X-Arm. 1/2 MMA, 1/2 Arm Wrestling, 100% intensity.

I can honestly say I had no idea this type of arm wrestling, I'm gonna check this out seems a tad neanderthal but interesting...

 

[Sakuraba7]

I'm not saying there aren't feeder leagues and regional circuits I don't know where you got that. The UFC has been known to work with the AXS TV fight leagues, the WSOF, and several other regional promotions around the country that build up these fighters.

There is a lot of unknown talent coming out of Russia right now to, but most all of these fighters have the goal of making it to the UFC which is known as the pinnacle of the sport of MMA in the sport today. I'm not quite sure with what you're trying to argue with me about here.

Feeder orgs are not major orgs or competition. They're not even trying to be competition. They provide sub-par entertainment by default. Consumers want choice between two or more good products, not between good, bad and worse.

There are Russian promotions which I myself mentioned several times, and they're not feeder orgs. So you acknowledge that you need other promotions to create stars, you didn't before. The UFC's the "pinnacle of the sport" because its the only one at the top. I'd like to see 3 or 4 of those, not 1. No other sport, besides your staple American sports, are structured that way.

 

[FrankieNYC]

Interesting convo between @Sakuraba7 & @Lionel Mandrake
Good stuff

 

[WaylonMercy5150]

I can honestly say I had no idea this type of arm wrestling, I'm gonna check this out seems a tad neanderthal but interesting...

I'm not a fan of it but I was just show how mma can evolve into a sort of bastard spawn if you will

 

[awymore]

And you're crazy calling it the 2nd most internationally recognized sport. As far as participation? Boxing and wrestling have just as many nations participating, if not more.

Boxing and wrestling are martial arts. They are a part of MMA.

 

[Akabignasty]

UFC is dying.

 

[007]

I hope the UFC goes bankrupt and a legitimate sports organisation takes over MMA.

 

[Sakuraba7]

Boxing and wrestling are martial arts. They are a part of MMA.

This a non-sequitur. One of the worst I've seen in my life.

So say boxing's been around for over a hundred years, MMA has been too? As a SPORT? Breathing is part of MMA too i reckon, might as well throw that in there. So MMA has been around since inception of living beings?

So let me get this straight, a person who follows the sport of boxing, is automatically an MMA fan? A person who competes in wrestling is automatically an MMA fighter, without ever competing in MMA in his life?

 

[awymore]

This a non-sequitur. One of the worst I've seen in my life.

So say boxing's been around for over a hundred years, MMA has been too? As a SPORT? Breathing is part of MMA too i reckon, might as well throw that in there. So MMA has been around since inception of living beings?

So let me get this straight, a person who follows the sport of boxing, is automatically an MMA fan? A person who competes in wrestling is automatically an MMA fighter, without ever competing in MMA in his life?

This isn't something new. Most MMA fighters come from a particular background whether it be boxing, wrestling, or whatever. That's what MMA is all about. Of course fans of an athlete who decides to move to MMA are more likely to continue watching him or her in MMA.

 

[Sakuraba7]

This isn't something new. Most MMA fighters come from a particular background whether it be boxing, wrestling, or whatever. That's what MMA is all about. Of course fans of an athlete who decides to move to MMA are more likely to continue watching him or her in MMA.

That is not what I responded to. Being from a different background doesn't mean MMA is THAT sport. Switching from hockey to football doesn't mean you were a football player like you are NOW.