Why don't thais set up their kicks?

[phoenixikki]

 

[AbeRudder]

Wasn't this thread aimed at muay thai blogs and fight 'analysts' that spout nonsense about muay thai? It's understandable if the average western fight fan can't get into the stadium scene given that it's not aimed towards western viewership and a lot of aspects of stadium muay thai won't appeal to the average 'just bleed' goon. But if you're supposed to be knowledgeable in the field of stand up fighting and combat sports then it's less excusable imo.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

And nobody talked about tge Pinca vs Manaowan fight because the matchup wasn't anything special. If Pinca had fought someone better people would have talked about it.

Well, actually they did talk about Pinca vs Manowan fight. And second none of these people actually know any better, they couldn't name more than a half dozen active stadium fighters. They have absolutely no way of knowing whether Manowan is good or not. But since the fight was for a title and Manowan is thai and from Sitsongpeenong, they'll assume he's good.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

If Teddy Reiner announced he was going into BJJ then BJJ guys would get hyped. People got hyped when Freddy Roach said he was going to train Shaq to box the Klitschkos. You just hear about it more in KB because its more common for guys to transition into it. Its fairly simple really.

Yeah, but the difference is that people already know that Reiner is a great Judoka and would treat him as such regardless of what he did in MMA or whether he fought at all. In MT in order to be regarded as an all time great, you have to fight internationally and have success otherwise people could care less about you. If Saenchai hadn't fought international, he would just be regarded the same way all other stadium fighters are. Just another guy.

Also, I don't get the sense that fans of other combat sports feel a desperate need to see athletes from their sport crossover to MMA or some other combat sport, in the way so called muay thai fans do. They can still feel invested in watching Reiner win another six gold medals or whatever, while people can't stand the idea of Yodwicha or Littewada continuing to fight in the stadiums for a second longer.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

Wasn't this thread aimed at muay thai blogs and fight 'analysts' that spout nonsense about muay thai? It's understandable if the average western fight fan can't get into the stadium scene given that it's not aimed towards western viewership and a lot of aspects of stadium muay thai won't appeal to the average 'just bleed' goon. But if you're supposed to be knowledgeable in the field of stand up fighting and combat sports then it's less excusable imo.

Well, yeah but that's the point. There's no real difference between the "average western fight fan" who knows nothing about the stadiums and the "so called experts" who write about the sport. They believe exactly the same shit and have the same tolerance for watching two thais fight.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

Any type of novelty match would Garner attention that's par for the course in combat sports.

Not really. There are Japanese fighters that fight in the stadiums occasionally, most people pay no attention to them.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Yeah, but the difference is that people already know that Reiner is a great Judoka and would treat him as such regardless of what he did in MMA or whether he fought at all. In MT in order to be regarded as an all time great, you have to fight internationally and have success otherwise people could care less about you. If Saenchai hadn't fought international, he would just be regarded the same way all other stadium fighters are. Just another guy.

I'm not sure exactly who you mean by "people," but overall I think judokas are quite analogous to nak muays in terms of recognition among fight fans. Fight fans have a vague knowledge that there are judo and MT beasts out there who are masters of their craft, but don't know the specifics. Among really hardcore MMA fans you will get a cursory knowledge of the very best, Teddy in judo, Samart, Deiselnoi and Saenchai in MT, but nothing beyond that. Then you get the people who are legitimate fans of those sports and can actually tell you who fighters are and how good they are. Now mind you I don't know the hardcore grappling scene well enough to tell you if they also have some bloggers/writers who try and pass judo-bashing garbage as journalism or higher knowledge, but otherwise quite analogous.

 

[Kanka]

Well, fuck the people who care more about knockouts and violence than the best competing against each other.

They want to see the best competing against each other but actually trying to beat up the other guy rather than fighting a certain way trying to score points and affect the betting odds.

I see a difference in the way they fight in raja/lumpinee compared to other stadiums or promotions. Also in the 90's fights were more dynamic and had more action. Would you disagree with this?

 

[Kanka]

Well, actually they did talk about Pinca vs Manowan fight. And second none of these people actually know any better, they couldn't name more than a half dozen active stadium fighters. They have absolutely no way of knowing whether Manowan is good or not. But since the fight was for a title and Manowan is thai and from Sitsongpeenong, they'll assume he's good.

You mean the twitter guys? Well i don't know any of them so i can't argue against that. I think it got alot of views on facebook live stream though. He is one of the best in europe, i guess he has quite a few european fans

 

[Snubnoze707]

Not really. There are Japanese fighters that fight in the stadiums occasionally, most people pay no attention to them.

So random Japanese fighters is the equivalent as their biggest star currently?

 

[Tayski]

Yeah, but the difference is that people already know that Reiner is a great Judoka and would treat him as such regardless of what he did in MMA or whether he fought at all. In MT in order to be regarded as an all time great, you have to fight internationally and have success otherwise people could care less about you..

Reiner would not be known to people if it wasn't for the Olympics. If the top level of Judo competition was in Japan's sports centres broadcasted on Japanese TV with Japanese commentary I can assure you that no one would know who Reiner is apart from die hard Judo fans and Japanese people. The difference here is the level of exposure to the sport.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

I'm not sure exactly who you mean by "people," but overall I think judokas are quite analogous to nak muays in terms of recognition among fight fans. Fight fans have a vague knowledge that there are judo and MT beasts out there who are masters of their craft, but don't know the specifics. Among really hardcore MMA fans you will get a cursory knowledge of the very best, Teddy in judo, Samart, Deiselnoi and Saenchai in MT, but nothing beyond that. Then you get the people who are legitimate fans of those sports and can actually tell you who fighters are and how good they are. Now mind you I don't know the hardcore grappling scene well enough to tell you if they also have some bloggers/writers who try and pass judo-bashing garbage as journalism or higher knowledge, but otherwise quite analogous.

I highly doubt that there are any self identified judo fans or people who write about judo who would say that Fedor was the greatest judoka of all time, because he was successful in MMA. However, the vast majority of self identified muay thai fans and people who write about muay thai believe that Buakaw is the greatest muay thai fighter of all time, because he had a successful kickboxing career. And I think that this would hold true for more general fight fans as well.

So, even if judokas and nak muays have analogous levels of recognition, there is clearly there is vast difference in the quality of the vague general knowledge that people have about the two sports.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

So random Japanese fighters is the equivalent as their biggest star currently?

If those guys are random, then someone like Pinca is sure random too. Why do people find him and Alamos and Dekkers and McGowan to be so "novel", but the Gaga Paeminburi's of the world not?

 

[Cocakillbana]

If Teddy Reiner announced he was going into BJJ then BJJ guys would get hyped. People got hyped when Freddy Roach said he was going to train Shaq to box the Klitschkos. You just hear about it more in KB because its more common for guys to transition into it. Its fairly simple really.

Come to think of it the only guys I see who "fantasize" about MT guys transitioning into KB are the few people who clearly demonstrate an interest in MT per se. When they do ask about this, me and a bunch of other posters will often say we would prefer them fight in FTR. I'm sure you're well aware that the "supposed Muay Thai fans" you are talking about are actually KB fans wit superficial knowledge of MT and who are confused about the distinctions of the sports. So lets treat them as such. Lets not act like its noteworthy when they're not getting hyped about Puenkon vs Prajanchai.

Someone announcing they're going to a different sport is a different situation than what we're discussing.

Lol at people getting hyped about Shaq being trained by Roach to fight Klitschko. I don't remember that, but I'm sure any serious boxing fan just rolled their eyes when they heard about it.

 

[Kanka]

It seems lo

If those guys are random, then someone like Pinca is sure random too. Why do people find him and Alamos and Dekkers and McGowan to be so "novel", but the Gaga Paeminburi's of the world not?

logic to me that europeans talk about european muay thai fighters and japanese talk about japanese muay thai fighters

 

[Cocakillbana]

They want to see the best competing against each other but actually trying to beat up the other guy rather than fighting a certain way trying to score points and affect the betting odds.

I see a difference in the way they fight in raja/lumpinee compared to other stadiums or promotions. Also in the 90's fights were more dynamic and had more action. Would you disagree with this?

Maybe the fights in the 90's were better, but the approach was much the same as it is today. The best fighters then were trying to win fights and knockouts were not significant or common from those fighters.

Also, you're (we're) only seeing select fights from that time.

 

[Snubnoze707]

Wasn't this thread aimed at muay thai blogs and fight 'analysts' that spout nonsense about muay thai? It's understandable if the average western fight fan can't get into the stadium scene given that it's not aimed towards western viewership and a lot of aspects of stadium muay thai won't appeal to the average 'just bleed' goon. But if you're supposed to be knowledgeable in the field of stand up fighting and combat sports then it's less excusable imo.

He claimed this was going on in this forum and specifically called out various posters even @SuperLuigi of all people...

 

[Snubnoze707]

If those guys are random, then someone like Pinca is sure random too. Why do people find him and Alamos and Dekkers and McGowan to be so "novel", but the Gaga Paeminburi's of the world not?

Because people actually know who those guys are. Who the fuck is Gaga Paeminburi?

 

[muaydan667]

Gaga is Cambodian, right? I'm sure in Cambodia they talk about him like a "novel" fighter and hype him up a lot, the only difference is that we cant speak Khmer. Just like Westerners hype up western fighters. Farang like Pinca and Alamos are actually pretty good and didnt get famous just because they fought in Lion Fight or something. Sure, they're not Nong-O, but they deserve (some) of their praise. Whats really annoying is when undeserving farang gets hyped up simply for being farang.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

Because people actually know who those guys are. Who the fuck is Gaga Paeminburi?

A guy who's not from Thailand and should therefore be view as a novelty. More importantly he's better than most of those guys and fights at a higher level.