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Discussion in 'Muay Thai and Kickboxing' started by jtwarwagon4life, Mar 12, 2017.
Change in skin colour would help.
I don't think it's that ridiculous. Well, I think people here are basically reasonable and should all be a bit more civil about it, but if you look at the way Muay Thai is talked about elsewhere it's basically textbook orientalism.
There's a recognition of the value in "traditional" muay thai, but the clue is there in the name; they think the thais are unchanging and all fight the same, while westerners use "modern" muay thai, they improved it, added boxing, yadayadayada. Success internationally is explained away by those thai fighters being good at the things westerners value; boxing, footwork, other things people who don't watch muay thai think it lacks. The whole idea rests on Thai fighters being too stupid to improve the style without aping western ways. If you lurk places like reddit (I can't stomach the sherdog heavies) it's pretty blatant, and none of them realize they're doing it.
I don't think Coca's comparison to american mainstream sports is fair, the language barrier alone makes it a different animal, but the way western fight fans view muay thai is pretty fucked up.
What's your point?
How in any way are you proving racial motives?
The NFL has been a flop outside of the US, but they actual promote.
What promoter from the Thai stadiums has pushed promotion outside of Thailand and tried to inform anyone non Thai about their fighters?
You sit and complain about no one following the sport outside of Thailand and a few of you nerds, why aren't you blaming the promotors? You haven't even mentioned them once.
That's all it takes to destroy Snubs argument.
Who is promoting him currently but failing due to the color of his skin?
It wasn't long ago I posted about how the promoters in Thailand we're lame because they allow such stupid title fights. I seem to remember you responded before reading it and accused me of not putting blame on the promoters. Remember that? Hell, I'm critical of the promoters all the time.
I'm really not denying your points and have argued those points personally, my disagreement is in motive. To say people come to those conclusions out of racism is unfounded. Obviously you cannot say that's 100% across the board like anything. You can however acknowledge a great degree of misunderstanding based purely on lack of awareness. It's up to people that understand the sport to spread the knowlege. Unfortunately these people outside of @anorak are a bunch of unlikeable doucebags.
I'm not one hundred percent clear on what you mean here. But none of the none nonthais in question have really done anything to "warrant hype" Take, the most egregious example, Daniel McGowan. He is only known to people because a couple of so called journalists wrote bullshit pieces on him claiming that he was the next big thing because he was being sponsored by Petchyindee. Now, as far as I can tell, McGowan was not in fact being sponsored by Petchyindee and should have been obvious to anyone who had watched his fights that he was not the next big thing in muay thai. His situation with Petchyindee was no different from that of many other nonthais living in thailand, but he was singled out as being special. So far as I can tell, the only thing that McGowan had going for him to warrant this attention was that he was white and English.
Do you know what you're arguing at this point?
Daniel McGowan was hyped, but you don't think it would be that way for a guy fighting at a better level? If Kaka was American, Irish of British he'd be the biggest fighter in the sport outside of Thailand.
People do know dick about the stadiums, but when they do go out of their way to "know" something about the stadiums it tends to be about certain characters. People "know" that Ramon Dekkers won fighter of the year in 1992 and "know" that Ramon was robbed in Thailand many times, etc. If someone is a white guy fighting at a decent level in the stadiums, people will go out of there way to know of them.
Come to think of it, how many widely "known facts" are there regarding stadium muay thai? This might be one of the only ones.
I still haven't even figured out who the fuck Kaka is. Why don't you educate us. Make a blog post or something.
McGowan was hyped? If someone was writing pieces on him chances are they are a countryman who has access to him.
Is Sangmanee making attempts at giving access to foreign publications and doing interviews?
Yall are crying "Why is nobody paying attention?"
What the fuck are you, or the people you are claiming are being ignored, doing to gain attention? Simply being a good fighter isn't enough. This is the flat out truth.
That's not going out of their way that's watching a YouTube highlight hype piece that blew up in the early days of YouTube and stuck ever since.
What's the difference? You've basically conceded the point that race plays a role in the way that hype is allotted.
I've given plenty of time to put out Muay Thai information and promote the sport in general and I've made zero cents doing it. I think it's best you not question what I've done. This is the flat-out truth.
It's bad enough that people don't give guys like Sangmanee the credit and attention they deserve. But what really urks me is that there are far lesser fighters that are getting more credit and attention than the ones that actually deserve it. It would be fairer, if they just ignored the accomplishments of all muay thai fighters.
I recall that when the Sittichai vs Yod fight was announced, you guys were tripping over yourselves to praise it. To the uninitiated it would have seemed like the biggest fight that could be made in the sport, maybe the biggest in history. I believe that some people may have even made Mayweather vs Paquiao comparisons.
you got some decent arguments, but with this one you're reaching.
The motives don't matter, the idea itself is racist. I don't need to look into someones brain and discern what they really think to tell if what they're doing is racist. All this western muay thai mythology relies on thais being backwards and westerners being better than them, that is the core of it all. That doesn't make them nazis or hateful people, we don't need a court called in to judge their guilt or anything, they're just being stupid. You don't see discussion of the same nature of how "modern" mma wrestling is superior to the "old-fashioned" olympic styles, or any other sport but muay thai, no matter how clueless the speaker is of those other sports.
Also, comparing muay thai to american sports is silly and unnecessary, coca.
it's sport entertainment after all.
People just don't have the same connection to the Satanmuangleks, Sprinters and Rotleks of this world.
That's actually quite thought out, but I don't agree.
Most of these UK/US based writed write about UK/US fighters because they are more emotionally invested in them, don't have a big enough audience that looks into the thai muay thai scene and are just to lazy to find information about fighters and events online. language barrier plays a big part as well.
I'm 100% sure those writers know that thai's are better, they just don't care enough.