Universal/socialist healthcare is worse than what we have now

[curryjunkie]

World Health Organization Ranking; The World’s Health Systems
1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel 29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 USA
you get beaten by colombia , costa rica, and chile for christsakes, have fun living in your fantasy world

 

[hillelslovak87]

I have like 5 friends living in Vancouver and Victoria BC, they laugh at these terrible arguments.

The insanely long wait times? A myth

The quality of care? The stats show overall, universal healthcare systems do better.

Cost prohibitive? Fuck no.

If it was such a terrible policy, across Europe countries would be abandoning it due to insane healthcare costs on the consumer, or lack of care.

Instead, we have the same Ben Shapiro argument, a few anecdotes represented as the complete picture, and loads of assertions.

 

[hillelslovak87]

I wish there was a site called GoFuckYourself

 

[Prutfis]

Well you are wrong and clueless. Guess you don´t have car insurance, home owners insurance, life insurance or any other kind of insurance, since you don´t want to pay for others insurance. Because that´s how insurance fucking works.

The "wait time" boogeyman is a myth. Lol at waiting 6 months for an x-ray. Thats not going to happen.

 

[Ruprecht]

We used to have true universal healthcare here in Australia, but the Liberal's love of privatisation underfunded medicare to the point they could introduce their multi tiered system. So now we have underfunded UHC, but you can pay "the gap" for private healthcare without any problem. I believe paying for insurance and private healthcare is still possible in the majority of countries with a UHC system.
Aside from that, there's mandatory savings schemes like Singapore's "Medisave".
Pretty sure all these options involve better outcomes at lower costs than the US system.

 

[tonni]

This is not to say our current healthcare situation is ide, but I'd rather pay a decent copay and have access to care whenever the fuсk I want, than to wait 6 months for an x ray and pay an assload of taxes to take care of all the sick people in the country. The overwhelming majority of people have healthcare through their job and Medicare is pretty good for the old folks. Show me examples of people being denied access to healthcare and we'll fight that injustice together.

i live in Belgium and absolutely do not have to wait 6 months for an x-ray.

 

[tonni]

Great
Fast
Cheap


Pick two out of the three, because your national healthcare system can't have all 3

Belgium: it's at least fast and cheap. a lot of people think it's 'great', i think there's still work.

 

[Avon]

What's the issue? Looking to the charity of neighbors is well founded in conservative economic ideals.

He wouldn't have been relying on other people's charity if he was 'forced' to pay for other people's insurance. Same way he doesn't have to pay for roads and emergency services he likely won't need or use.

 

[pinger]

We used to have true universal healthcare here in Australia, but the Liberal's love of privatisation underfunded medicare to the point they could introduce their multi tiered system. So now we have underfunded UHC, but you can pay "the gap" for private healthcare without any problem. I believe paying for insurance and private healthcare is still possible in the majority of countries with a UHC system.
Aside from that, there's mandatory savings schemes like Singapore's "Medisave".
Pretty sure all these options involve better outcomes at lower costs than the US system.

Our system is still fucking good

 

[BEER]

FFS, one of you...



Yes, we're all aware of that.

So what's the problem?

 

[hillelslovak87]

World Health Organization Ranking; The World’s Health Systems
1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel 29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 USA
you get beaten by colombia , costa rica, and chile for christsakes, have fun living in your fantasy world

The conservatives in America, who think the left hates America, dont think America can implement a healthcare system on par with Costa Rica or Saudi Arabia.

 

[Ruprecht]

Our system is still fucking good

It works and it's not overpriced. It's hard to do a direct comparison with when it was true UHC because of the advances in technology and the related increase in costs. The public system is definitely under a lot more strain than it used to be though (and will come under more as the population ages). Privatisation and co-location only brought increased costs and decreased service to the recipients (they were only improved and profitable in extremely wealthy areas). The Modbury hospital here in SA is a prime example.
Privatisation and polarisation of wealth and services. We're chasing America's tail.

 

[PorkPiePusher]

Speaking as someone who has had the chance to live in three different universally insured countries and one where there is no universal insurance, I have to say that universal insurance is incalculably better.

Under a universal insurance system you may have to wait months for some procedures, sure; but universal healthcare only means that the minimal societal norm is that everyone has this basic form of insurance. If you want to join a copay that offers better benefits or if you want to go to private pay-for-procedure clinics - you're absolutely free to do so. I genuinely don't get what all the discussions are about; it's not like the majority of the civilised World doesn't have decades of experience with properly functioning universal healthcare systems.

Belgium: it's at least fast and cheap. a lot of people think it's 'great', i think there's still work.

I lived in France (the supposed no.1 healthcare system) and I would chose the Belgian system any day. GOAT healthcare IMO. The only problem is knowing which hospitals are in muslim majority neighbourhoods, those people get sick a lot for some reason and clog up the waiting rooms beyond any reasonable measure. Also, where are you from @tonni ?

 

[HIMBOB]

Has any non American ever said the American system is better than theirs?

We used to have true universal healthcare here in Australia, but the Liberal's love of privatisation underfunded medicare to the point they could introduce their multi tiered system. So now we have underfunded UHC, but you can pay "the gap" for private healthcare without any problem. I believe paying for insurance and private healthcare is still possible in the majority of countries with a UHC system.
Aside from that, there's mandatory savings schemes like Singapore's "Medisave".
Pretty sure all these options involve better outcomes at lower costs than the US system.

Well you just saved me writing out a bunch of stuff.

As to wait times last injury i had i waited about 15 mins for my appointment i booked the previous day. Got a referral and got an xray the same day and paid $0.00 in total.

 

[HIMBOB]

Speaking as someone who has had the chance to live in three different universally insured countries and one where there is no universal insurance, I have to say that universal insurance is incalculably better.

Under a universal insurance system you may have to wait months for some procedures, sure; but universal healthcare only means that the minimal societal norm is that everyone has this basic form of insurance. If you want to join a copay that offers better benefits or if you want to go to private pay-for-procedure clinics - you're absolutely free to do so. I genuinely don't get what all the discussions are about; it's not like the majority of the civilised World doesn't have decades of experience with properly functioning universal healthcare systems.



I lived in France (the supposed no.1 healthcare system) and I would chose the Belgian system any day. GOAT healthcare IMO. The only problem is knowing which hospitals are in muslim majority neighbourhoods, those people get sick a lot for some reason and clog up the waiting rooms beyond any reasonable measure. Also, where are you from @tonni ?

Its like the imperial measuring system; superceded in every way but people don't realise that until after they change over.

 

[Metusalemi]

And all this time I thought it has been great so far in my life.

I better go complain somewhere.

 

[WiolentOne]

No. Obamacare is garbage because it lacks a single payer. Obamacare combines the worst of socialism and capitalism together.

 

[tonni]

Speaking as someone who has had the chance to live in three different universally insured countries and one where there is no universal insurance, I have to say that universal insurance is incalculably better.

Under a universal insurance system you may have to wait months for some procedures, sure; but universal healthcare only means that the minimal societal norm is that everyone has this basic form of insurance. If you want to join a copay that offers better benefits or if you want to go to private pay-for-procedure clinics - you're absolutely free to do so. I genuinely don't get what all the discussions are about; it's not like the majority of the civilised World doesn't have decades of experience with properly functioning universal healthcare systems.



I lived in France (the supposed no.1 healthcare system) and I would chose the Belgian system any day. GOAT healthcare IMO. The only problem is knowing which hospitals are in muslim majority neighbourhoods, those people get sick a lot for some reason and clog up the waiting rooms beyond any reasonable measure. Also, where are you from @tonni ?

i live in the Flemish region of Belgium. not gonna be too specific because of paranoia. have you travelled here or did you live here?

i had two dentist appointments this week. i have to pay the fee upfront, then bring in a small paper to my insurance provider and i have 80% or something of it back next week.

i've had multiple surgeries in my right leg after an accident, and it basically cost me nothing and i only had to wait a short while.

if you have something very urgent, you get emergency care ASAP without them asking for your credit card information or whatever and again, it doesn't cost you shit.

the problem indeed is clogged up hospitals. small country with overpopulation.

 

[Rav1nHunter]

This is not to say our current healthcare situation is ide, but I'd rather pay a decent copay and have access to care whenever the fuсk I want, than to wait 6 months for an x ray and pay an assload of taxes to take care of all the sick people in the country. The overwhelming majority of people have healthcare through their job and Medicare is pretty good for the old folks. Show me examples of people being denied access to healthcare and we'll fight that injustice together.

You should come to Australia it's heaps fun here and if you hurt yourself having fun you don't need to mortgage your house to pay medical bills.

 

[hillelslovak87]

Our system is still fucking good

http://www.who.int/whr/2000/media_centre/press_release/en/

http://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf

The U.S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country (17%) but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of GDP on health services, ranks 18th.