Universal/socialist healthcare is worse than what we have now

[PorkPiePusher]

Belgium: it's at least fast and cheap. a lot of people think it's 'great', i think there's still work.

i live in the Flemish region of Belgium. not gonna be too specific because of paranoia. have you travelled here or did you live here?

i had two dentist appointments this week. i have to pay the fee upfront, then bring in a small paper to my insurance provider and i have 80% or something of it back next week.

i've had multiple surgeries in my right leg after an accident, and it basically cost me nothing and i only had to wait a short while.

if you have something very urgent, you get emergency care ASAP without them asking for your credit card information or whatever and again, it doesn't cost you shit.

the problem indeed is clogged up hospitals. small country with overpopulation.

I live in Brussels and have had 2 surgeries in the past 4 years. Both times my insurance paid the full cost of the surgeries even though they normally only cover 80%, and has recouped the 20% I owed them by only covering 75% of my next few coverable cases. This also applies regardless if I go to a private clinic. I did both times. P4P GOAT insurance system.

 

[Rav1nHunter]

Well you are wrong and clueless. Guess you don´t have car insurance, home owners insurance, life insurance or any other kind of insurance, since you don´t want to pay for others insurance. Because that´s how insurance fucking works.

The "wait time" boogeyman is a myth. Lol at waiting 6 months for an x-ray. Thats not going to happen.

Your chart is wrong for Australia (can't speak for any other countries) baby delivery costs nothing and I mean nothing not one fucking cent.

 

[Prutfis]

Your chart is wrong for Australia (can't speak for any other countries) baby delivery costs nothing and I mean nothing not one fucking cent.

Actually it does, it is just not charged directly to the "customer". There are still costs.

 

[Rav1nHunter]

Actually it does, it is just not charged directly to the "customer". There are still costs.

My Tax covers it but if I didn't have a job it would still cost nothing.

 

[Prutfis]

My Tax covers it but if I didn't have a job it would still cost nothing.

Yes to you directly. It still costs something. It´s not "free".. The procedure still has a cost. Whether or not you are charged directly is completely irrelevant in this case. The chart is not "direct end user cost".

 

[Rav1nHunter]

Yes to you directly. It still costs something. It´s not "free".. The procedure still has a cost. Whether or not you are charged directly is completely irrelevant in this case. The chart is not "direct end user cost".

This thread is about cost to the user isn't it and also whether U.S. style healthcare is better than universal?

 

[nostradumbass]

An argument could be made for universal catastrophic coverage, but covering every routine thing would probably get out of hand and cost a shitload.

 

[Prutfis]

This thread is about cost to the user isn't it and also whether U.S. style healthcare is better than universal?

No to the first, yes to the second.

 

[SammyPops]

While universal healthcare is not perfect, it is clearly more effective for the health of its citizens and cost efficient than the US system.

 

[Beechwood]

I hope if we do go toward a Medicare system for all, that costs are regulated more and lowed. We play around 17% of our GDP toward health care in America. Other western countries pay around half that amount yet health care outcomes are nearly the same in most areas between our countries.

Personally though I have doubts that a Medicare for all would seriously address our out of control medical costs in America. Our health care system creates many good paying jobs. It is hard to imagine politicians creating a new system that causes many Americans to become unemployed.

It could be similar to our government/ public schools. Many complain about our schools. Teaching outcomes can be poor. Public schools expenses are some of the highest in the west. Many parents now will pay high costs to send their kids to private schools anymore in order to avoid the public schools. These people are paying for both public and private schoolings. Yet, despite the often talked about problems with our government schools, little has been done to improve them. The reason often sighted for the lack of improvements and high costs has to do with employment within schools and salaries earned.

 

[Renard]

6 months for an x ray? Lol, dude. Last time I needed an x ray I had to wait 5 mins as the clinic already had an xray department, and it cost me 0.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

What's the issue? Looking to the charity of neighbors is well founded in conservative economic ideals.

Party of personal responsibility amirite? "I don't need this!" Five minutes later - "omg I please help me I need this thing I said I don't need!"

Such personal. Much responsibility. wow.

<18><18><18>

 

[HatchetHarry]

Universal health coverage in the United States would be a disaster. Medicaid is already destroying the quality of care of actual hard working Americans. Changes need to be made to healthcare but universal coverage is not the answer. EMTALA needs to go along with Medicaid and costs will go down. Penalties for overweight people and smokers need to be increased. It's a sad day in America when young people idolize an Anti-American piece of shit like Bernie Sanders who promotes these ideas that don't work and go against everything that America was founded on. If you want free healthcare move to Cuba or Venezuela.

 

[MarloStanfield]

This is not to say our current healthcare situation is ide, but I'd rather pay a decent copay and have access to care whenever the fuсk I want, than to wait 6 months for an x ray and pay an assload of taxes to take care of all the sick people in the country. The overwhelming majority of people have healthcare through their job and Medicare is pretty good for the old folks. Show me examples of people being denied access to healthcare and we'll fight that injustice together.

youre an ignorant fool who has know idea what the fuck hes talking about, hop back into your little box

 

[Chramelated]

youre an ignorant fool who has know idea what the fuck hes talking about, hop back into your little box

That seems mildly inappropriate for a political discussion

 

[panamaican]

The primary argument in favor of a UHC program, imo, is the ability to negotiate pricing more aggressively from the consumer size. You can certainly cover more people but you're going to pay for it. There is no valid argument for the idea that it will take longer to get procedures. Switching to a UHC model isn't going to change the number of doctors or patients.

The VA has delays but that's because the VA has a shortage of medical professionals and an abundance of patients. If the VA could increase the number of doctors, wait times would drop.

The only other argument out there is that reduced physician compensation would result in a doctor shortage. I've read the arguments on here and I find them lacking. We already constrain physician supply, leaving hundreds of qualified applicants unable to enter the profession. We could easily expand the number of professionals with no drop off in quality.

The most egregious oversight in the doctor supply argument is that the government already pays for every single doctor we have because they fund all of the residencies. And without that government handout, none of the current teaching hospitals are willing to actually provide the training to our future doctors that allows them to practice.

We, the tax payer, basically fund the entire health industry (from training to research to treatment) but we fund it in such a way that actually makes it more expensive for us to use it. How does that make sense?

 

[The Diplomat]

Universal health care is great, if it's implemented properly. Germany has a good system imo. You pay a little more tax for it, but it's soooo easy and cheap compared to the mess that US health care is.

The American system will never be fixed, as long as drug companies and insurance companies are given free reign to suck as much money as they possibly can out of the system.

Pharmaceutical and insurance companies run the health care game, this is true. That needs to be changed.

But whenever someone compares the US health care system to places Germany, Canada, etc. they're never really taking the population difference into account. When there are less variables, it's easier to deal with the logistics of it all. Germany may have 80 million people (Canada only 30 mil) but the US has 320 million and counting, and much different demographics in terms of economics, land size, etc.

We could always just raise everyone's taxes even more to pay for a universal system, but then we're still sidestepping the low wages and inflation issue that we've been dealing with for the last 15+ years. If we think that the welfare state and debt are problems now, it could only possibly get worse when even the lower middle class can't afford to pay for the rest of the country.

I *did* like Bannon's idea of going ahead and taxing the fuck out of the extremely wealthy even more to pay for it, even though it's socialist as hell. Reason being, at the end of the day they are still going to have more money and power than the rest of the nation combined.

 

[Chramelated]

Switching to a UHC model isn't going to change the number of doctors or patients.

When doctors are forced to accept one healthcare that erases competition, and their wages will go down. That will in Turn make the job less appealing resulting in less qualified candidates. And yes it will affect the number of patients, everyone and their grandmother is going to go to the doctor for a stubbed toe. It happens in all countries where there is UhC

 

[Chramelated]

Universal health coverage in the United States would be a disaster. Medicaid is already destroying the quality of care of actual hard working Americans. Changes need to be made to healthcare but universal coverage is not the answer. EMTALA needs to go along with Medicaid and costs will go down. Penalties for overweight people and smokers need to be increased. It's a sad day in America when young people idolize an Anti-American piece of shit like Bernie Sanders who promotes these ideas that don't work and go against everything that America was founded on. If you want free healthcare move to Cuba or Venezuela.

Seriously this

 

[Chramelated]

World Health Organization Ranking; The World’s Health Systems
1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel 29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 USA
you get beaten by colombia , costa rica, and chile for christsakes, have fun living in your fantasy world

Then move to Colombia, because they certainly have their shit together.