Trump Reneges on Iran Nuclear Deal, Citing Non-Existent Violations

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

I'd say there are certainly better ways to go about restructuring agreements.

To other nations, to the American people.
Just decertify it or defund it, say you're not going to own it despite destroying its chances, take no responsibility.

This guy doesn't take responsibility for anything.

 

[lfd0311]

IranWatch.org?????

Do you know what that is, or are you just hating? It's a part of the Wisconsin Project on Nuclear Arms Control, a think tank in DC that deals specifically with preventing Nuclear Proliferation. It isn't some wacky Brietbart-esque site. They do work for the State Department as well as other Nations in regards to Nuclear Weapons.

That's also old news from 11/15.
A lot changed just 1 month later:


This is from 12/28/15:

A Russian ship left Iran on Monday carrying almost all of Iran’s stockpile of low-enriched uranium, fulfilling a major step in the nuclear deal struck last summer and, for the first time in nearly a decade, apparently leaving Iran with too little fuel to manufacture a nuclear weapon.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile...ckpile-of-enriched-uranium-to-russia.amp.html[/QUOTE]

Acocording to that link, they still have on the high side of 10,000 pounds of enriched uranium, with another 18,000 available to convert, which they can according to the agreement, with 15 years left to do it in. So in no way did they give up "almost all" of their stock pile. Again, I'm aware of what date this information comes from.

Secondly, they have more than enough left over to make a bomb. In fact, using the measurements provided by the Wisconsin project of just the Enriched Uranium still on hand according to your link they can make 4. If you factor in the material that can be further enriched, which they are again allowed to enrich per the agreement, and they can make an additional 12.

 

[Sauron]

I have an incredibly low opinion of think tanks.

Most of the time they are agenda and funding driven propaganda vehicles. The director of this particular think tank does the rounds of all the most odious neocon 'think tanks'.

 

[lfd0311]

Iran has to give up its already enriched stockpile (the biggest constraint to any nuclear weapon program) and had to put 2 thirds of their centrifugues in storage.

The above was certified by the IAEA (as in it already happened as of Oct 2017).

1.) No, it hasn't given up it's stockpile. It was never required to give up it's stock pile.

2.) It could neither have been certified by the IAEA or have happened already because it isn't a prat of the agreement. What is a part of the agreement is they will limit their stockpile at certain times for certain reasons. Funny that guys like @HomerThompson and @Strychnine don't seem to know that.

3.) I'll just break down more of the spin of this agreement by the Left. First of all, let's address the "Iran has to give up it's centrifuges lie". No they don't. According to the agreement, Nantanz specifically can keep in operation 5,060 centrifuges. Sounds good in comparison to how many they have, right? Not when you actually read the reports and realize that that is essentially maximum capacity of centrifuges they've been able to keep in operation from 2009 to 2015 when they were amassing thier stockpile. 2010 is when we hit them with stuxnet, and that's where some of the drop off from 5 to 3 thousand occurs. After the recovery, they ramped up to full capacity to make up for lost time. In reality, all this agreement forces Iran to do is all they were doing prior to Stuxnet, and nothing more.

https://www.armscontrol.org/print/3988

Operations at Natanz Continue

Contrary to UN demands to suspend uranium enrichment, Iran continues to enrich uranium to low levels at its commercial-scale enrichment plant at Natanz and has been installing additional centrifuges.

Since the last IAEA inspection in August, Iran has installed about 400 centrifuges, for a total of about 8,700 machines. The number of centrifuges currently enriching uranium, however, has continued to decline in recent months. In May, Iran was producing low-enriched uranium (LEU) with about 5,000 centrifuges. The latest IAEA report indicates it is now doing so with about 4,000. The reason for the decline is unclear.

In spite of the decrease in the number of centrifuges enriching uranium, however, Iran’s rate of LEU production has remained at about 85 kilograms per month, suggesting a slight increase in efficiency. Iran has accumulated a stockpile of about 1,760 kilograms of LEU since enrichment operations began in 2006, according to IAEA estimates

From 2010:

http://isis-online.org/uploads/isis-reports/documents/IAEA_Iran_Report_Analysis_18Feb2010.pdf

Natanz could currently produce enough weapon-grade uranium for a weapon in six months or less.


This report also concluded that the Fordow enrichment plant is capable of producing enough weapon-grade uranium for a weapon, under conservative assumptions about the performance of the P1 centrifuges. Thus, the Fordow plant is suitable as a military facility in any Iranian effort to produce nuclear weapons. This result confirms the Obama administration’s estimate that Fordow is large enough to produce enriched uranium for a weapons program.

Number of Centrifuges

As of January 31, 2010 the number of centrifuges enriching uranium at the Natanz Fuel Enrichment Plant (FEP) stands at 3,772, down from 3,936 which Iran has been operating since February 2009. Iran has installed an additional 2624 centrifuges. This is down from the 4,756 centrifuges previously reported as installed but not enriching. The report notes that some 11 cascades are being dismantled.

From 2011:

The average monthly production of LEU at the FEP has stayed at about 133 kg per month of LEU hexafluoride (for the last reporting period we noted it was 133 kg of LEU hexafluoride and the one prior to that it was 116 kg of LEU hexafluoride). As of February 20, 2011, Iran was enriching in 31 cascades, containing a total of 5,184 IR-1 centrifuges. The IAEA noted that some of these centrifuges "were possibly not being fed" with uranium hexafluoride. The number of cascades enriching increased slightly from 29 cascades, with 4,816 IR-1 centrifuges enriching, at the end of the last reporting period. Some 3,000 centrifuges are installed but not being fed with uranium hexafluoride, according to this report. The total number of centrifuges installed is given as about 8,000 centrifuges, which represents a decrease from the number installed at the end of the last reporting period. Figures 1-3 illustrate these trends at Natanz

From 2012:

indicates that Iran was not feeding 8,808 centrifuges with UF6 for the duration of the November – February reporting period.


As of May 19, 2012, Iran had 55 centrifuge cascades installed with 9,330 IR-1 centrifuges and was enriching in 52 cascades containing a total of 8,818 IR-1 centrifuges. The IAEA noted that "not all of the centrifuges in the cascades being fed with uranium hexafluoride may have been working." Uranium hexafluoride feed rates are not given for this reporting period. Figures 1-5 illustrate these trends at Natanz.

4.) "No plants other than Natanz are available for enrichment". Cool. Only 2 other plants were envolved in enrichment anyway, and neither of them anywhere on the level that Natanz is. So once again a major section of the agreement is utterly meaningless.

5.) The Fordow Underground Enrichment Center can no longer be used for enrichment and must be converted into a nuclear, physics and technology center.

Once again, sounds good at face value. Too bad They hadn't been using Fordow to enrich anything for two years prior to this agreement. Yet another major bullet point of the agreement that does not prevent or hinder Iran from doing anything they couldnt do before.

http://www.nti.org/learn/facilities/165/

Following the signing of the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action in 2015, the FFEP was restructured as a research center under monitoring by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA). [2] 1,044 gas centrifuges remain installed in one wing of the facility, with IR-1 cascades installed separately for stable isotope production. According to the IAEA, Iran has not used the plant for uranium enrichment since reporting began in November 2013.

So again, The US got Iran to agree to do a bunch of things they were already doing, and got them to agree to continue producing uranium at a rate they'd been producing it all along, while allowing them to keep a stockpile large enough to make somewhere in the neighborhood of 12-16 nukes, gave them 150 billion dollars to do it, and pretended like that somehow prevented them from doing anything. You guys should be ashamed of yourselves.

 

[Strychnine]

1.) No, it hasn't given up it's stockpile. It was never required to give up it's stock pile.

2.) It could neither have been certified by the IAEA or have happened already because it isn't a prat of the agreement. What is a part of the agreement is they will limit their stockpile at certain times for certain reasons. Funny that guys like @HomerThompson and @Strychnine don't seem to know that.

3.) I'll just break down more of the spin of this agreement by the Left. First of all, let's address the "Iran has to give up it's centrifuges lie". No they don't. According to the agreement, Nantanz specifically can keep in operation 5,060 centrifuges. Sounds good in comparison to how many they have, right? Not when you actually read the reports and realize that that is essentially maximum capacity of centrifuges they've been able to keep in operation from 2009 to 2015 when they were amassing thier stockpile. 2010 is when we hit them with stuxnet, and that's where some of the drop off from 5 to 3 thousand occurs. After the recovery, they ramped up to full capacity to make up for lost time. In reality, all this agreement forces Iran to do is all they were doing prior to Stuxnet, and nothing more.

https://www.armscontrol.org/print/3988



From 2010:

http://isis-online.org/uploads/isis-reports/documents/IAEA_Iran_Report_Analysis_18Feb2010.pdf






From 2011:





From 2012:





4.) "No plants other than Natanz are available for enrichment". Cool. Only 2 other plants were envolved in enrichment anyway, and neither of them anywhere on the level that Natanz is. So once again a major section of the agreement is utterly meaningless.

5.) The Fordow Underground Enrichment Center can no longer be used for enrichment and must be converted into a nuclear, physics and technology center.

Once again, sounds good at face value. Too bad They hadn't been using Fordow to enrich anything for two years prior to this agreement. Yet another major bullet point of the agreement that does not prevent or hinder Iran from doing anything they couldnt do before.

http://www.nti.org/learn/facilities/165/



So again, The US got Iran to agree to do a bunch of things they were already doing, and got them to agree to continue producing uranium at a rate they'd been producing it all along, while allowing them to keep a stockpile large enough to make somewhere in the neighborhood of 12-16 nukes, gave them 150 billion dollars to do it, and pretended like that somehow prevented them from doing anything. You guys should be ashamed of yourselves.

So the SecDef and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff are lying?

They said that Iran was honoring the deal.

Period.

What am I missing here?!?!?

 

[Harry Stewart]

More islamophobia from "45"

 

[Podrick]

Trumps a puppet of Netanyahu and I'm sure his son in law Jared has been whispering things in her ear so no surprise there.

But the media will never accuse the Israeli's of taking over, or him being Netanayahu's puppet

Russia! Russia! Russia!

Not surprising given who runs the media?

 

[Rod1]

1.) No, it hasn't given up it's stockpile. It was never required to give up it's stock pile.

You seem to have a pathological need to be right, ill write up an answer to the rest but wont post it unless you acknowledge that you were wrong in this very point.

Iran did had to give up its stockpiles and it did.

Dec 2015.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/29/...-stockpile-of-enriched-uranium-to-russia.html

Address the above article and ill post the rest.

 

[helltoupee]

Do you know what that is, or are you just hating? It's a part of the Wisconsin Project on Nuclear Arms Control, a think tank in DC that deals specifically with preventing Nuclear Proliferation. It isn't some wacky Brietbart-esque site.

Is this is the same think tank that promoted the whole "Saddam Hussein has tons of WMD's" bloodlust back in the early 2000's?

LOL. Just google Gary Milhollin and Saddam Hussein. This is the same shit all over again.

I'd like to see Wisconsin Project's 990 and the list of donors. I'm guessing nobody would be surprised as to where they get some of their funding.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Do you know what that is, or are you just hating? It's a part of the Wisconsin Project on Nuclear Arms Control, a think tank in DC that deals specifically with preventing Nuclear Proliferation. It isn't some wacky Brietbart-esque site. They do work for the State Department as well as other Nations in regards to Nuclear Weapons.

Acocording to that link, they still have on the high side of 10,000 pounds of enriched uranium, with another 18,000 available to convert, which they can according to the agreement, with 15 years left to do it in. So in no way did they give up "almost all" of their stock pile. Again, I'm aware of what date this information comes from.

Secondly, they have more than enough left over to make a bomb. In fact, using the measurements provided by the Wisconsin project of just the Enriched Uranium still on hand according to your link they can make 4. If you factor in the material that can be further enriched, which they are again allowed to enrich per the agreement, and they can make an additional 12.

I actually thought IranWatch was something else, but checked after I posted and didn't have to time to correct my post before I left for work.
It is a legit site.

Not enriched enough is the key. And guess what, they haven't built a bomb. They've been reporting that Iran had enough enriched uranium since 2009. No bomb.

 

[ShadowRun]

I actually thought IranWatch was something else, but checked after I posted and didn't have to time to correct my post before I left for work.
It is a legit site.

Not enriched enough is the key. And guess what, they haven't built a bomb. They've been reporting that Iran had enough enriched uranium since 2009. No bomb.

How do you know they haven't built a bomb ?

 

[Anung Un Rama]

How do you know they haven't built a bomb ?

 

[RhinoRush]

Oh no! Not Iran!

 

[HIMBOB]

He's the best deal maker out there

So he says

He is great at brinkmanship. Not a great trait for the leader of a declining superpower.

 

[Limbo Pete]

The only leverage after that is bullying.

There is a substantial potion of our population that want this. Not just in politics, but life in general. Ever seen a group gather and cheer while somebody else gets picked on?

 

[kpt018]

There is a substantial potion of our population that want this. Not just in politics, but life in general. Ever seen a group gather and cheer while somebody else gets picked on?

Yes, it is a horrible fact of mob mentality. People lose their individual identity and behave in ways that they would not normally when they're part of a group.

 

[lfd0311]

I actually thought IranWatch was something else, but checked after I posted and didn't have to time to correct my post before I left for work.
It is a legit site.

Just wanted to make sure, because it's not set up in a way, or named in a way, that doesn't make it look very legit.

[/QUOTE]Not enriched enough is the key. And guess what, they haven't built a bomb. They've been reporting that Iran had enough enriched uranium since 2009. No bomb.[/QUOTE]

And if you read further after the post that you quoted I lay out how this agreement allows Iran to continue producing enriched uranium at the same rates they had been for years.

 

[lfd0311]

Is this is the same think tank that promoted the whole "Saddam Hussein has tons of WMD's" bloodlust back in the early 2000's?

LOL. Just google Gary Milhollin and Saddam Hussein. This is the same shit all over again.

I'd like to see Wisconsin Project's 990 and the list of donors. I'm guessing nobody would be surprised as to where they get some of their funding.

You should maybe look at what Saddam was doing, and what North Korea did for years and see how the correlate, then understand who Hans Blix is and how he fits into that scenario.

 

[lfd0311]

So the SecDef and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff are lying?

They said that Iran was honoring the deal.

Period.

What am I missing here?!?!?

What part of "conducting business as usual" doesn't equate to "honoring their end of the deal" in your mind? All they had to do to honor their end of the deal was to sell of some of thier stock pile, "take out of service" a few thousand centrifuges they weren't using and hadn't been using anyway, and keep producing enriched uranium at a rate they've been producing it at for the last few decades. Sounds like that's a pretty easy standard to meet to hold up your end of the agreement, doesn't it?

 

[lfd0311]

You seem to have a pathological need to be right, ill write up an answer to the rest but wont post it unless you acknowledge that you were wrong in this very point.

Iran did had to give up its stockpiles and it did.

Dec 2015.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/29/...-stockpile-of-enriched-uranium-to-russia.html

Address the above article and ill post the rest.

Dude, I just am right. I actually read and know what I'm talking about. I've actually read the reports, unlike you, who continue to ignorantly repeat like a parrot the dishonest views of someone else.

From the very first paragraph of your link:

A Russian ship left Iran on Monday carrying almost all of Iran’s stockpile of low-enriched uranium, fulfilling a major step in the nuclear deal struck last summer and, for the first time in nearly a decade, apparently leaving Iran with too little fuel to manufacture a nuclear weapon

You apparently didn't read this response I posted earlier, to the exact same link:

Do you know what that is, or are you just hating? It's a part of the Wisconsin Project on Nuclear Arms Control, a think tank in DC that deals specifically with preventing Nuclear Proliferation. It isn't some wacky Brietbart-esque site. They do work for the State Department as well as other Nations in regards to Nuclear Weapons.

That's also old news from 11/15.
A lot changed just 1 month later:


This is from 12/28/15:

A Russian ship left Iran on Monday carrying almost all of Iran’s stockpile of low-enriched uranium, fulfilling a major step in the nuclear deal struck last summer and, for the first time in nearly a decade, apparently leaving Iran with too little fuel to manufacture a nuclear weapon.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile...ckpile-of-enriched-uranium-to-russia.amp.html

Acocording to that link, they still have on the high side of 10,000 pounds of enriched uranium, with another 18,000 available to convert, which they can according to the agreement, with 15 years left to do it in. So in no way did they give up "almost all" of their stock pile. Again, I'm aware of what date this information comes from.

Secondly, they have more than enough left over to make a bomb. In fact, using the measurements provided by the Wisconsin project of just the Enriched Uranium still on hand according to your link they can make 4. If you factor in the material that can be further enriched, which they are again allowed to enrich per the agreement, and they can make an additional 12.[/QUOTE]

Try harder, Rod. You're wrong. You're consistently wrong, because you don't actually read for yourself. It's a common problem on the Left because you just take everything that the Leftist Media says, especially in regards to the Messiah Obama, at face value because everything about him is good and pure and has wonderful intentions and never would be about politics or grandstanding. He certainly wouldn't sign an objectively awful agreement with Iran designed to really do nothing other than allow him to be able to say he's the guy that did it. Iran still has 10,000 pounds of enriched uranium, from which it can make 4 nuclear warheads inside of 2 months from the time of the agreement 2 years ago. It also is still allowed, as you can see from reading the rest of my post that you didn't bother responding to, to continue enriching uranium at the same rates that it always has been and can continue buying unenriched uranium from the Russians essentially whenever it wants to. So literally nothing was done here to prevent Iran doing anything they wanted to do.