Transgender in Iran

[The ScorpioN]

So what? You keep saying this like it means something when it doesn't. Most people with disorders show a different brain chemistry, that doesn't mean that whatever they believe is actually right, that's an absurd premise. I believe I'm God, check out my brain chemistry, it's different than average, I must be God...

How is this a real conversation?






All your responses are ad hoc. You just say whatever you need to to prove your conclusion instead of following the evidence where it leads.

In these posts you are exactly wrong, and what you've said here flies in the face of everything we know:

-Gender is non-binary, remember? You can believe to be a woman one day and a man the next. The entire community agrees that it can be "reversed" by definition. This is not the community you want to throw your logical hat in the ring with.

-This disorder sometimes appears later in life, meaning that a person believed to be one sex for decades, and then decide they're another sex. By your crude analysis, they were always right, but at the same time it's not reversible. This is logically incoherent.

-Finally, and this small little fact that destroys your entire argument which never proved anything in the first place, is that it is "curable". Clinicians report that many people who suffer from gender dysphoria and other body dysmorphic disorders DO NOT exhibit dysphoria later in life. Ta-da, they're cured.

----
I used anorexia as an example when I could have used a dozen other disorders. You then ran with it and tried to make it completely analogous and ended up saying that it was "way different" because one is curable and the other isn't. Besides employing an ad hoc argument, you were completely wrong. So I'm curious if you'll double down or resort to more red herrings? Maybe you can call me a transphobe.

This is the type of honesty that comes when speaking about transgenderism. You want so badly to defend this that you'll say just about anything and you'll ignore science and common sense, and employ a list of fallacies to boot. I'm done.

And it's all over

 

[EmpireShallFall]

Pics?

 

[GORETAURO]

I see a lot of people claiming that Trans conditions are all invented.

And while the whole 1000 genders is ridiculous and a lot of people are claiming things when they are not, there are legitimate people that are born with women brains inside a mans body.

To such extent that transgenderism is recognize in one of the most religious regimes in the world, Iran.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsexuality_in_Iran

Basically a woman born as a man (1) hounded the late Ayatollah Khomeini to recognize transgender as non-homosexuals (which are banned under Islam) and after a personal meeting in which she was beat up by his bodyguards, Khomeini accepted the fact that transexual are not homosexuals but people born in the wrong gender.

So next time you mock transgender people remember you are being more backwards than a fucking theocracy.

There are insane people in every country. Stop the presses!!!

 

[Deleted member 159002]

So what? You keep saying this like it means something when it doesn't. Most people with disorders show a different brain chemistry, that doesn't mean that whatever they believe is actually right, that's an absurd premise. I believe I'm God, check out my brain chemistry, it's different than average, I must be God...

How is this a real conversation?






All your responses are ad hoc. You just say whatever you need to to prove your conclusion instead of following the evidence where it leads.

In these posts you are exactly wrong, and what you've said here flies in the face of everything we know:

-Gender is non-binary, remember? You can believe to be a woman one day and a man the next. The entire community agrees that it can be "reversed" by definition. This is not the community you want to throw your logical hat in the ring with.

-This disorder sometimes appears later in life, meaning that a person believed to be one sex for decades, and then decide they're another sex. By your crude analysis, they were always right, but at the same time it's not reversible. This is logically incoherent.

-Finally, and this small little fact that destroys your entire argument which never proved anything in the first place, is that it is "curable". Clinicians report that many people who suffer from gender dysphoria and other body dysmorphic disorders DO NOT exhibit dysphoria later in life. Ta-da, they're cured.

----
I used anorexia as an example when I could have used a dozen other disorders. You then ran with it and tried to make it completely analogous and ended up saying that it was "way different" because one is curable and the other isn't. Besides employing an ad hoc argument, you were completely wrong. So I'm curious if you'll double down or resort to more red herrings? Maybe you can call me a transphobe.

This is the type of honesty that comes when speaking about transgenderism. You want so badly to defend this that you'll say just about anything and you'll ignore science and common sense, and employ a list of fallacies to boot. I'm done.

Great post. Hard to make any progress with a transgender normalization advocate who won't even commit to saying whether male/female is based on brain or body.

 

[Leagon]

I've said on this board tons of times that Iranian society is both: 1. More compatible with the West than most of the world; and 2. superior to Western society in some specific, limited ways.

Moreso than the vast majority of nations, even non-theocratic ones, they have the ability to consider new viewpoints and revise their way of life without ruining the integrity of their beliefs. I'm not scholar on this, so this is merely from observation, but it's extremely admirable from what I've seen.

Not gonna get into the trans debate again, since the conservatives on this board are superbly ignorant on the issue, but thanks for the thread TS.

 

[Leagon]

Great post. Hard to make any progress with a transgender normalization advocate who won't even commit to saying whether male/female is based on brain or body.

Most of the time, the brain and body have the same sex, so there's no reason to base it on one. That's like saying, "is race based on skin color or bone structure/facial traits?"

 

[xcvbn]

A lot of you completely dismiss the scientific genetics cases of transgenders. They absolutely have genetic traits in their DNA of male and female.

http://anthro.palomar.edu/abnormal/abnormal_5.htm

Sex Chromosome Abnormalities

The majority of known types of chromosomal abnormalities involve sex chromosomes. In frequency of occurrence, they are only slightly less common than autosomal abnormalities. However, they are usually much less severe in their effects. The high frequency of people with sex chromosome aberrations is partly due to the fact that they are rarely lethal conditions. Like Down syndrome and other autosomal problems, sex chromosome gross abnormalities can be diagnosed before birth by amniocentesis and chorionic villi sampling.

Sex chromosome abnormalities are gender specific. Normal males inherit an X and a Y chromosome while females have two X's. A single Y chromosome is sufficient to produce maleness while its absence is necessary for femaleness. Female abnormalities are due to variations in the number of X chromosomes. Male abnormalities are the result of irregular numbers of either the X or the Y chromosome or both.

 

[xcvbn]

I've said on this board tons of times that Iranian society is both: 1. More compatible with the West than most of the world; and 2. superior to Western society in some specific, limited ways.

Moreso than the vast majority of nations, even non-theocratic ones, they have the ability to consider new viewpoints and revise their way of life without ruining the integrity of their beliefs. I'm not scholar on this, so this is merely from observation, but it's extremely admirable from what I've seen.

Not gonna get into the trans debate again, since the conservatives on this board are superbly ignorant on the issue, but thanks for the thread TS.

Persian people aint that bad. Aside from their nutty ayatollahs, they're clearly the most capable and reasonable middle eastern people. Their major problem is allowing crazy assholes to hijack power since the CIA and MI6 fucked them over in the 50s for their oil.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

Most of the time, the brain and body have the same sex, so there's no reason to base it on one. That's like saying, "is race based on skin color or bone structure/facial traits?"

What does that mean? Either brains are inherently m/f (and if so, how do you operationally define each?) or bodies are. Can't be both. So which is it?

 

[grimballer]

Im not claiming that transgenderism is justified because of the views of the Ayatollahs.

Im pointing out that.

1.- Its not a western invention.

2.- Right wingers claim that Islam is a threat to the west because of their backwards views while being even more backwards than Islamists.

1. It is a mental issue more promoted in western world by some

2. You could make an argument that promoting transgenderism = backwards

 

[Rod1]

1. It is a mental issue more promoted in western world by some

2. You could make an argument that promoting transgenderism = backwards

1.- Tolerance = promotion?

2.- It is more tolerated in the west thanks to liberals, 100 years of liberal progressivism is what separates the west from the middle east.

 

[grimballer]

1.- Tolerance = promotion?

2.- It is more tolerated in the west thanks to liberals, 100 years of liberal progressivism is what separates the west from the middle east.

1. Yup shooting small children with hormones cause they identify with different gender

2. Just cause you say progressive, doesn't mean it's right. Sure liberals played key role back on the day, just like feminists. The problem is new age liberals/feminists went too far with their "progressiveness"

 

[Rod1]

1. Yup shooting small children with hormones cause they identify with different gender

2. Just cause you say progressive, doesn't mean it's right. Sure liberals played key role back on the day, just like feminists. The problem is new age liberals/feminists went too far with their "progressiveness"

1.- I specifically pointed out that i disagree with taking it too far.

2.- Pretty much yes, that doesnt means that its useless.

 

[Leagon]

What does that mean? Either brains are inherently m/f (and if so, how do you operationally define each?) or bodies are. Can't be both. So which is it?

Why can't it be both?

A human brain can be male (shaped by high amounts of androgen) or female (shaped by high amounts of estrogen).

A human body can be male (shaped by high amounts of androgen) or female (shaped by high amounts of estrogen).

 

[Deleted member 159002]

Why can't it be both?

A human brain can be male (shaped by high amounts of androgen) or female (shaped by high amounts of estrogen).

A human body can be male (shaped by high amounts of androgen) or female (shaped by high amounts of estrogen).

How much androgen makes a brain male and how much estrogen makes a brain female?

 

[Leagon]

How much androgen makes a brain male and how much estrogen makes a brain female?

As I understand it, it's less about specific amounts. Our brains get their sex hormones in the uterus. Typically, an XY fetus will get male hormones and an XX fetus will get female hormones. I don't know if they measure exactly how much of each hormone is delivered. I reckon it would require pretty invasive measures to learn that.

 

[Lanx]

Trans is a mental illness, why are ya'll debating crazy???

It's like asking a serial killer, why they killed so many ppl? why not stop at 18???

It's like asking a pedophile, why they can't just like ppl born before 1998??? why do they need the young ones?

 

[Dr J]

I see a lot of people claiming that Trans conditions are all invented.

And while the whole 1000 genders is ridiculous and a lot of people are claiming things when they are not, there are legitimate people that are born with women brains inside a mans body.

To such extent that transgenderism is recognize in one of the most religious regimes in the world, Iran.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsexuality_in_Iran

Basically a woman born as a man (1) hounded the late Ayatollah Khomeini to recognize transgender as non-homosexuals (which are banned under Islam) and after a personal meeting in which she was beat up by his bodyguards, Khomeini accepted the fact that transexual are not homosexuals but people born in the wrong gender.

So next time you mock transgender people remember you are being more backwards than a fucking theocracy.

Entirely nonsense. They just want to boost their international credibility in female sports.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

As I understand it, it's less about specific amounts. Our brains get their sex hormones in the uterus. Typically, an XY fetus will get male hormones and an XX fetus will get female hormones. I don't know if they measure exactly how much of each hormone is delivered. I reckon it would require pretty invasive measures to learn that.

So you're claiming there's a such thing as a male brain and female brain, but you don't even know how the two are distinguished?

 

[Rod1]

Entirely nonsense. They just want to boost their international credibility in female sports.

Number 10 lol.