Southern Baptists Have a New President-- And He Just Rebuked Mike Pence

This is classic... Among modern day, right-wing Trumpublican Christians, proclaiming Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ alone, as the Hope and Lord and Savior of mankind is a "liberal" move.

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And this pastor referring to Trump as a type of "Caesar" is a huge, even biblical (for what that's worth) step up from the sycophant preachers who have been referring to Trump as a type of "King David".

It has nothing to do with Trump as a person and more to do with Christians being consertive.
 
Glad to hear it. The politicizing of Christianity is something that needs to be based on actual alignment of Christian values and not superficial political imagery.

And I'm not singling Trump out for this but it's the most searchable image that popped into my head while typing.

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Guarantee if you looked in the front cover it would say "Property of Trump Hotels".
 
The Republican economic platform is basically a lite version of Nozick's theory of entitlement, which is about as anti-Christian as you can get.
 
The whole thing about evangelicals being best buddies with Trump is overblown.

The reason why is that evangelicals are not a DENOMINATION, but a theological stance between protestant churches who contrast themselves with other protestants who rely on liberal theology
A protestant can (and often is) an evangelical,but identify as the a protestant first and foremost. Or identify as a protestant with liberal theological ideas.

Usually churches who identify as evangelicals first tend to be non-denominational, which in reality tend to be more baptist or carismatic or pentecostal.

If you really think that most evangelicals support Trump, well ,VERY influencial folks in the evangelical community that come from denominations have been against him, or at least, ambivalent about him. Most of the folks who prayed for him during cerimonies came from pentecostal and prosperity gospel tendencies.

Usually the folks that support him are non denomination evangelicals with pre millenarist tendencies, or sometimes, fundamentalist inclinations.

Note here that I am not saying who is right or wrong, but that the whole overarching ideas of liberalism, fundamentalism,evangelicalism, carismatic movement, pentecostal movement, prosperity gospel and its involvement with protestantism has been , with the expection of Rachel Green from The Atlantic, seen in very simplistic views by the mainstream media, in ways that do not help at all.
While I hear what you are saying and appreciate your thoughtfulness, this really isn’t a theological discussion.

The fact remains that the largest group of Protestants in this country self-identify as born again/ Evangelical. Now whether or not that is an over simplification in theological terms, it is not an oversimplification in electoral terms because this self identified group is the MOST homogeneous voting block of any American religious group over the last several decades— and they have become more homogeneous over time.

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So to talk of white born again/ Evangelicals as a single entity makes sense politically, if not in other ways.
 
Sounds like a handful of christians are realizing that the republican party has been playing them for fools.

About time.
 
Overall, Evangelicals have been unflagging in their support of President Trump, and the Republican Party in recent decades, but there is a sentiment among many church leaders that the group has allowed its identity to become too political. The new President of the Southern Baptists (an "evangelical sect" and the nation's largest Protestant sect) J.D. Greear is promising to bring a less politicized gospel to his followers.

Greear said on Monday:
"We believe that Jesus is the lord of the whole earth. He is the king of kings and he is the lord of lords. We believe that he, not any version of Caesar, is the Messiah. He is the Christ, the son of the living God, that salvation is found in him, not in the Republican platform or the Democratic platform, and that salvation did not come riding in on the wings of Air Force One. It came cradled in a manger."

Vice President Mike Pence addressed the Souther Baptist Convention yesterday, speaking briefly of his own personal conversion experience before going on to tout the political accomplishments of Donald Trump at length. There had been a vote to remove Pence as a speaker from the Convention the previous day-- but the motion only received about 30% support.

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After Pence's speech, Greear tweeted:
"I know that sent a terribly mixed signal. We are grateful for civic leaders who want to speak to our Convention—but make no mistake about it, our identity is in the gospel and our unity is in the Great Commission. Commissioned missionaries, not political platforms, are what we do."

The election of Greear seems to crystallize the ascendancy of more politically moderate voices in the Southern Baptist Church; during the convention in which he was elected, resolutions were passed that called for more acceptance of immigrants, criticized the separation of families at the border and urged more generous treatment of refugees.

Greear's election comes at a tumultuous time, as leaders of several prominent Southern Baptist churches have been exposed as sexual predators, and the church's overall culture of suppressing the voices and concerns of women has been criticized.

Of the recent scandals Greear wrote:
"God is stirring in the SBC. He has exposed a startling amount of sin in our midst. He has shaken many of our foundations. And I actually think that’s good news, because whom the Lord loves, he chastens."

Greear, the youngest leader of the SBC to be elected in decades, also wrote of race relations, saying: "We need to recognize the leadership gifts of brothers and sisters of color that God has placed in our midst and embrace their leadership. This should have happened a long time ago, but in this new era we desperately need their wisdom and influence.”

Greear is pictured humorously in the middle between his described "protection"-- newly elected SBC Vice Presidents Felix Cabrera and Dr. A.B. Vines:

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https://www.christianitytoday.com/n...cted-southern-baptist-president-sbc-2018.html

Greear's message gives me hope for the Gospel in America. The Southern church has been perverted in recent decades-- and in many ways since its inception-- as it has allowed "Evangelicalism" to become a political and cultural identity rather than a genuine discipleship of Christ (this criticism is by no means limited to the Evangelicals; although, they are the most politicized of any American religious group:
http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-co...2225/FT_16.11.09_Relig_ExitPoll_ReligRace.png)

If Greear succeeds in "de-weaponizing" the Evangelical Church as a platform of the Republican party, it would be a good thing, and a potentially major shift in American electoral politics. Good luck to President Greear and Peace to All People of Goodwill.



Southern baptists are the biggest fucking joke in mainstream christianity.
 
Real christians should be ashamed for supporting trump.

Everyone concluded long ago that you weren't a real christian though, so I'm not sure what you're complaining about.

Why should we be ashamed?
 
Why should we be ashamed?

Expressly covering up for sin, applauding it, and protecting the sinful from criticism. Lying. Forgetting just about all of the 10 commandments.

Essentially, completely ignoring the tenants of your religion depending on the political identity of the person in question.
 
Southern baptists are the biggest fucking joke in mainstream christianity.
Southern Baptists are the largest sect of American Protestantism.

I mean... you could go with the Catholics I suppose. But the Pope’s opinion on Trumpism... well, I don’t think you’d like that. And most mainline Protestant denominations (Anglican, Presbyterian, Congregationalist, etc.) are only slightly less liberal than Unitarians and Quakers these days.

I’m genuinely curious: which group in mainstream Christianity do you consider “not a joke”?
 
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Expressly covering up for sin, applauding it, and protecting the sinful from criticism. Lying. Forgetting just about all of the 10 commandments.

Essentially, completely ignoring the tenants of your religion depending on the political identity of the person in question.

I don't see Christians covering up Donald Trumps sins. Any specific examples?

And protecting the sinful from criticism is not happening and it's not even a Biblical concept to begin with.
 
I don't see Christians covering up Donald Trumps sins. Any specific examples?

Every time he's lied, the religious right has been silent. When he fucked that porn star and lied about it for months, nothing but either silence from the religious right, or the retarded "well I hate the sin but not the sinner."

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And protecting the sinful from criticism is not happening and it's not even a Biblical concept to begin with.

Speak the truth in all you do. Staying silent in the face of sin is cowardly and non-christian.
 
Every time he's lied, the religious right has been silent. When he fucked that porn star and lied about it for months, nothing but either silence from the religious right, or the retarded "well I hate the sin but not the sinner."



Speak the truth in all you do. Staying silent in the face of sin is cowardly and non-christian.

What would you have Christians say about Trumps sins tho?
 
Sounds like a handful of christians are realizing that the republican party has been playing them for fools.

About time.

I would love to believe that is true. But I'm sorry to say I think it's a vast overstatement.

I have a feeling that in spite of Greear's opinion on Trump as a man or of his office as a secular institution, Greear would probably be in support of at least 90%, if not more, of the Trump administration's policy objectives.

I think we are a long, long way from seeing Southern Baptists getting behind things like cuts in military spending, single-payer health care, living wages, public colleges, etc.
 
Why does it bother you? I already told you in the last post I don't like hypocrisy.
I understand why people don't like hypocrisy but it is literally everywhere and apart of human nature and literally everyone is a hypocrite.


So why worry so much about it ?
 
I would love to believe that is true. But I'm sorry to say I think it's a vast overstatement.

I have a feeling that in spite of Greear's opinion on Trump as a man or of his office as a secular institution, Greear would probably be in support of at least 90%, if not more, of the Trump administration's policy objectives.

I think we are a long, long way from seeing Southern Baptists getting behind things like cuts in military spending, single-payer health care, living wages, public colleges, etc.

I know, and I was giving a poor summary of my purely speculative opinion. But, coming from a Catholic background in the deep south, I've started to hear rumblings from a portion of the Christian right in regards to Trump's behavior.

I agree we're a long way away from seeing evangelicals embracing liberal ideals, but it's a start.
 
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

I agree, although the free pursuit of money in a free environment was applauded by early "evangelicals," and for very good reasons.

America, as they saw it, was a place where through competition and vigor one could practice their work ethic and values to accumulate wealth that would A. give people a good and generous civic spirit and B. allow them to give charitably, which Americans surely do.

They saw this as a very fair and equitable reading of scripture for what the American society is or was intended to be.
 
Sounds like a handful of christians are realizing that the republican party has been playing them for fools.

About time.
It’s not really about the Republican Party. There is a pushback among some Evangelicals specifically against Trump. Most Evangelicals can’t vote Democrat because of their stance on abortion.
 
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