Social Satanic Temple statue displayed among Nativity scene and menorah at IL Capitol

franklinstower said:
Just so you know Rip, none of the early church fathers and no one I know of think you can be saved by works or by another gospel or belief other than that of Jesus Christ. No universalist ideology I have ever been exposed to thinks that.

Just FYI.
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How do universalists claim you can be saved?
 
Ripskater said:
There's nothing wrong with True Christianity. However there is a lot of false teaching out there spreading Universalism that you can be saved by doing good works or saved by some other religious belief besides the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
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This is how I know you are trolling and not interested in an actual conversation or debate. Like I said you are the reason Christianity, TRUE Christianity is on the decline. Look in the mirror and figure out why.
 
ShadBo said:
Satan doesn't exist, bro.

Science is about understanding the nature of the reality we live in. What we do with that understanding is on us.
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Religion is the study and truth regarding our nature, and how we can better shape our reality.
 
Kframe said:
This is how I know you are trolling and not interested in an actual conversation or debate. Like I said you are the reason Christianity, TRUE Christianity is on the decline. Look in the mirror and figure out why.
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True Christianity has not changed. But our society has changed. And people just don't believe the Bible anymore. I'm pointing you to the Bible, what it says about sin, forgiveness, heaven, hell and Jesus Christ.
 
Yay, being a douche just for the sake of being a douche. Why don't these pussies take their ponytails and eyeliner and drop their performance art off at a mosque? Of course they won't because they'll only attack people that are peaceful and are just trying to celebrate a holiday. Some are taking a religious holiday to try to be happy?!? Fuck that, we need to make them as miserable and depressed as me.
 
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rearnakedchoke said:
Probably not. But if you are having public funds spent on a religious theme, other religions have the right to be represented.

I dont think public money should be spent on religious themed events, regardless of religion. Private businesses are free to do what they want.
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Then don't make it a federal holiday. I want my mail on Christmas so if you're that opposed to Christmas, you'd better get your ass to work and not take the day off while shitting on the reason you have the day off.

ShadBo said:
Satan doesn't exist, bro.

Science is about understanding the nature of the reality we live in. What we do with that understanding is on us.
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Science is there to explain tangible things. Religion is philosophical.
 
Satanism sounds more reasonable than Islam, Judaism and Christianity.
 
Amerikuracana said:
We should ALL just say no. Just no. Yep, we know the constitution and what it was intended for, but you people are attention seeking imbeciles and are bad for anything. So the grown ups are making a judgement call and saying no.

Seriously. It's ok sometimes.
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I'm sure the church of satan would be happy to have no religious symbols at the capital.

But if you want it to just be saying no to a group because their beliefs are not the same as yours while letting yours stay up you can get fucked.
 
1pedestrian said:
Satanism sounds more reasonable than Islam, Judaism and Christianity.
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It should to most people in the west since, other than some rites at the end, the content of the Satanic Bible is pretty much just describing how we live (including the Christians) and saying that it's a good thing.

I see the Christians on this site take pages out of the Satanic Bible all the time instead of saying what Jesus would have.
 
nostradumbass said:
Then don't make it a federal holiday. I want my mail on Christmas so if you're that opposed to Christmas, you'd better get your ass to work and not take the day off while shitting on the reason you have the day off
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You sonofa. Checkmate this early????
 
As much as I think these people are ass holes for doing this.

This is an example of the 1st amendment in action which separates the US from every other country in the world so I fully support their right.

If you understand and support the 1st and America you have to support their right.

Just like I support the right of Nazi's and BLM to peacefully protest and demonstrate .

That doesn't mean I like them or what they stand for.
 
franklinstower said:
By Jesus Christ working in their soul directly in this life or in the next age.
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Well Universalists are not Christians. The next life or next age a person will either go to heaven or hell. There is no second chance after this life to accept Jesus Christ. The idea that you can accept Christ after you die is unBiblical
 
Ripskater said:
Well Universalists are not Christians. The next life or next age a person will either go to heaven or hell. There is no second chance after this life to accept Jesus Christ. The idea that you can ept Christ after you die is unBiblical
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It's unbiblical according to the poor translation you have been accustomed too provided by the Catholic Church and Augustines take on that interpretation. That was one of the several points in my other post you did not respond too.

In fact eternal hell was settled as a dogma by the Catholic Church around 500 AD. Until then the concept of eternal hell was only believed by a percentage of the early Christians. As it turns out if you are using the better translation from the Greek text it is an impossible doctrine to settle on scripture alone. It took the Papal authority of the Catholic Church to settle eternal hell as an official dogma.

Of course the eastern churches never really went along with it because on the basis of pure scripture cases can be made both ways.... So the universalism that was present even in the first 100 years of Christianity survives to this day.
 
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franklinstower said:
It's unbiblical according to the poor translation you have been accustomed too provided by the Catholic Church and Augustines take on that interpretation. That was one of the several points in my other post you did not respond too.

In fact eternal hell was settled as a dogma by the Catholic Church around 500 AD. Until then the concept of eternal hell was only believed by a percentage of the early Christians. As it turns out if you are using the better translation from the Greek text it is an impossible doctrine to settle on scripture alone. It took the Papal authority of the Catholic Church to settle eternal hell as an official dogma.

Of course the eastern churches never really went along with it because on the basis of pure scripture cases can be made both ways.... So the universalism that was present even in the first 100 years of Christianity survives to this day.
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Oh I know universalism survives to this day. No doubt. Many people think you can be saved by Islam, Buddha, Hindu Gods, good works, or that you can buy your relatives out of purgatory by donating to the Catholic Church.

How would a universalist lead someone to Christ? Would they share the Gospel? And what is the Universalist's Gospel?
 
Ripskater said:
Oh I know universalism survives to this day. No doubt. Many people think you can be saved by Islam, Buddha, Hindu Gods, good works, or that you can buy your relatives out of purgatory by donating to the Catholic Church.

How would a universalist lead someone to Christ? Would they share the Gospel? And what is the Universalist's Gospel?
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Why did you bring up Buddha and other religions again RIP? That is so dishonest. Is it jus banking on the stupidity of your audience? I think you are trolling man.


As far as what they say to bring the gospel of Jesus Christ to others without mentioning hell-- well it's pretty easy. You just focus on the fact that Jesus Christ, lord and saviour and only way to the one true God can transform your life profoundly, and after that he can do it again, and after that again, until you cannot believe the joy and love you get to have and participate in nearness to God in this life, until it is so great that people would not believe you if you told them..... it's the same message but deeper which is what the early church fathers had.

In fact, the several levels of awakening are the best points of the Christian faith. I know people who only preach and minister to those who have already been born again and found maturity from that approach, people many years onto the Christian walk. I know Christians who help those people die to themselves, again, and go much much deeper into God. That is what the early church was like as a norm.

Also just because universalist believe that Jesus will eventually save everyone does not mean that they don't think now, on this earth, on this planet, in this life, is the very best easiest time. Universalism is not always presented in a warm fuzzy way depending on how they read the scriptures.

Anyway man-- you have not addressed any of my points and I don't believe you even want to so Im gonna have to say goodnight soon.

Also since you love to point out scripture out of context I thought I would quote some in context on the subject of transformation and the gospel. These I pulled from an evangelical site. There are way more important scriptures to point out but I am saving them for the next leg of this discussion should you choose to address the points I have already made about hell, augustine, plato and the Catholic Churches Papal statement about hell, and the change in interpretations of the biblical text (that you yourself use) that came as a result of that Papal ruling.

  • We become "a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come" (2 Cor 5:17). It is almost as if we become a new species. Scripture speaks of the "first Adam" who was earthly and fell into sin, and the "second Adam" (Jesus Christ) who was sinless and holy (Rom 5:12-19; 1 Cor 15:44-49).
  • We are "made new in the attitude of your minds" (Eph 4:23).
  • We "put off your old self" and "put on the new self" (Eph 4:22,24; Col 3:9-10).
  • We "live by the Spirit" and not by the flesh (Gal 5:16; Rom 8:13).
  • We become "instruments of righteousness" rather than "instruments of wickedness" (Rom 6:13).
  • We have "been buried with him through baptism into death" in order that "we may live a new life" (Rom 6:4).
  • "I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me" (Gal 2:20).
  • We have "been set free from sin and have become slaves to God" (Rom 6:22). We are no longer "slaves to sin, which leads to death", but have become "slaves to ... obedience, which leads to righteousness" (Rom 6:16).
  • We are rescued ("translated" KJV) from the kingdom of darkness into the Kingdom of God's son (Col. 1:13). Our citizenship and our allegiance has been changed.
  • We have become adopted sons of God (John 1:12-13; Rom 8:15-16).
  • We are "born again" (John 3:3,5); born from above, of the spirit and not the flesh.
 
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franklinstower said:
As far as what they say to bring the gospel of Jesus Christ to others without mentioning hell-- well it's pretty easy. You just focus on the fact that Jesus Christ, lord and saviour and only way to the one true God can transform your life profoundly, and after that he can do it again, and after that again, until you cannot believe the joy and love you get to have and participate in nearness to God in this life, until it is so great that people would not believe you if you told them..... it's the same message but deeper which is what the early church fathers had.
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Yes Jesus can transform your life profoundly, but that is not the Gospel. Transforming your life is just a result after salvation, that Christ is working in you.

This is the Gospel. Jesus Christ died for sinners, took took the punishment on the cross, so that sinners could be saved. We deserve to be in Hell when we die, including myself for all the terrible things I've done.

We are saved by Grace (it's a gift from God) by Faith in Jesus Christ alone.

If Christ is in us, repentance will be evident. It will change how we look at our sin and how we see God.
 
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