Social Satanic Temple statue displayed among Nativity scene and menorah at IL Capitol

[franklinstower]

The Bible and true Christianity does not allow for Universalism. If a "church" preaches Universalism, it is not a Christian church. They have a false gospel. The Bible even says let those who preach a false gospel be cursed by God himself.

Galatians1
6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

Thanks for sharing your opinion RIP. Unfortunately most of the greatest minds and saints of the early Christian Church disagreed with you, for the first 500 years in fact. You are welcome to your opinion on it though.....

I won't waste time arguing back and forth and quoting convenient scriptures, as I belive it to be the lowest form of Christian apologetics-- more often misused than used correctly.

Many Christians insist that if you question hell, you are rejecting what has always been agreed upon by the Church, but the doctrine of eternal torment was not a widely held view for the first five centuries after Christ, particularly in the early Eastern Church, the Church of the early apostles and Church fathers such as Paul, Clement of Alexandria, St. Gregory of Nyssa, Origen, and others.

The notion of eternal hell slipped into the Catholic Church largely through Augustine who was heavily influenced by Plato's pagan thoughts on the matter of souls and bodies and separation at death.

1. First, Plato believed that the soul was separate from the body and that the soul was fundamentally pure but tends to become deformed through association with the body.
2. Second, like his teacher Socrates, Plato believed that the soul itself was immortal, thus necessitating an eternal destination for the soul after the body dies.
3. Third, Plato proposed that good actions result in a reward in this life, but more importantly, a greater reward after death. Similarly, bad actions result in consequences in this life, but even greater punishment after death.

Plato linked some of his ideas to prevailing Greek mythology, including the locations of Hades and Tartarus. In Greek mythology, Tartarus is the location deep below Hades where the Titans were enslaved and the wicked were tormented. According to Plato, this is where divine punishment was meted out.

It is of this philosopher that St. Augustine said--

“The utterance of Plato, the most pure and bright in all philosophy, scattering the clouds of error . . .”

These ideas proposed by Plato are not from the Bible. They are Greek philosophy. BUT we have spent centuries reading them into the Biblical text and even translating the Biblical text through their lens.


Once the concept was firmly accepted by the Catholic Church and the bias was decided, theological and philosophical apologetics followed like changing the interpretation of certain words within scripture (especially the many different words now all translated as hell) and homogenizing them until a tidy picture was/is presented by the Catholic Church on the matter.

These well meaning translation errors and homogenizations persist to this day in any bible you are likely to see and use.

 

[woodguyatl]

Don't confuse popular with important.

 

[91 seconds]

The statue is fitting.

 

[ShadBo]

Thanks for sharing your opinion RIP. Unfortunately most of the greatest minds and saints of the early Christian Church disagreed with you, for the first 500 years in fact. You are welcome to your opinion on it though.....

I won't waste time arguing back and forth and quoting convenient scriptures like you do, as I belive it to be the lowest form of Christian apologetics more often misused than used correctly.

Many Christians insist that if you question hell, you are rejecting what has always been agreed upon by the Church, but the doctrine of eternal torment was not a widely held view for the first five centuries after Christ, particularly in the early Eastern Church, the Church of the early apostles and Church fathers such as Paul, Clement of Alexandria, St. Gregory of Nyssa, Origen, and others.

The notion of eternal hell slipped into the Catholic Church largely through Augustine who was heavily influenced by Plato's pagan thoughts on the matter of souls and bodies and separation at death.

1. First, Plato believed that the soul was separate from the body and that the soul was fundamentally pure but tends to become deformed through association with the body.
2. Second, like his teacher Socrates, Plato believed that the soul itself was immortal, thus necessitating an eternal destination for the soul after the body dies.
3. Third, Plato proposed that good actions result in a reward in this life, but more importantly, a greater reward after death. Similarly, bad actions result in consequences in this life, but even greater punishment after death.

Plato linked some of his ideas to prevailing Greek mythology, including the locations of Hades and Tartarus. In Greek mythology, Tartarus is the location deep below Hades where the Titans were enslaved and the wicked were tormented. According to Plato, this is where divine punishment was meted out.

It is of this philosopher that St. Augustine said--

“The utterance of Plato, the most pure and bright in all philosophy, scattering the clouds of error . . .”

These ideas proposed by Plato are not from the Bible. They are Greek philosophy. BUT we have spent centuries reading them into the Biblical text and even translating the Biblical text through their lens.


Once the concept was firmly accepted by the Catholic Church and the bias was decided, theological and philosophical apologetics followed like changing the interpretation of certain words within scripture (especially the many different words now all translated as hell) and homogenizing them until a tidy picture was/is presented by the Catholic Church on the matter.

These well meaning translation errors and homogenizations persist to this day in any bible you are likely to see and use.

Can you admit that the god you worship did an extremely poor job communicating what exactly he wanted out of his followers?

 

[franklinstower]

Can you admit that the god you worship did an extremely poor job communicating what exactly he wanted out of his followers?

It depends on what you mean. I hate that I even had to write that last post. The doctrinal differences are so stupid and base as to be nearly meaningless to me man. I never argue this stuff because I NEED someone to believe what I do-- I do it so that someone who might otherwise reject a relationship with God can see there are alternative perspectives.

Generally speaking though I don't think believing the exact right thing is even the point. It is all language about a banana most people have never eaten-- and they are arguing about the best words to use to describe it.

What I think is really clear and what has been preserved in the monasteries and convents is what I think Christianity is really about which is teachings on how to gain a deep and powerful relationship with God that is transformative and on this front I think it is clear enough to be very workable especially if you concede as I do that the writings of the early saints are an important element in understanding it all.


Also in reference to a different topic we share in common-- out here we is stoned-- immaculate.

 

[ShadBo]

Also in reference to a different topic we share in common-- out here we is stoned-- immaculate.

Liked for this alone.

It just seems to me that an all-powerful all-knowing god would understand the folly of choosing to communicate with its creation the way yahweh is alleged to. There's really no need for all the confusion.

 

[franklinstower]

Liked for this alone.

It just seems to me that an all-powerful all-knowing god would understand the folly of choosing to communicate with its creation the way yahweh is alleged to. There's really no need for all the confusion.

I think it is really simple if you are looking to develop a connection. If anyone is looking to understand everything to do with life, death, what God is, what heaven is, then I think they are asking to understand something more complicated than the physical universe-- something we don't now and may never fully understand.

 

[Ripskater]

I won't waste time arguing back and forth and quoting convenient scriptures, as I belive it to be the lowest form of Christian apologetics-- more often misused than used correctly.

Quoting scripture is exactly where we should go when we are discussing the Gospel. Scripture is not "the lowest form of Christian apologetics." Scripture is the foundation.

Many Christians insist that if you question hell, you are rejecting what has always been agreed upon by the Church, but the doctrine of eternal torment was not a widely held view for the first five centuries after Christ, particularly in the early Eastern Church, the Church of the early apostles and Church fathers such as Paul, Clement of Alexandria, St. Gregory of Nyssa, Origen, and others.

The notion of eternal hell slipped into the Catholic Church largely through Augustine who was heavily influenced by Plato's pagan thoughts on the matter of souls and bodies and separation at death.

1. First, Plato believed that the soul was separate from the body and that the soul was fundamentally pure but tends to become deformed through association with the body.
2. Second, like his teacher Socrates, Plato believed that the soul itself was immortal, thus necessitating an eternal destination for the soul after the body dies.
3. Third, Plato proposed that good actions result in a reward in this life, but more importantly, a greater reward after death. Similarly, bad actions result in consequences in this life, but even greater punishment after death.

Plato linked some of his ideas to prevailing Greek mythology, including the locations of Hades and Tartarus. In Greek mythology, Tartarus is the location deep below Hades where the Titans were enslaved and the wicked were tormented. According to Plato, this is where divine punishment was meted out.

It is of this philosopher that St. Augustine said--

“The utterance of Plato, the most pure and bright in all philosophy, scattering the clouds of error . . .”

These ideas proposed by Plato are not from the Bible. They are Greek philosophy. BUT we have spent centuries reading them into the Biblical text and even translating the Biblical text through their lens.


Once the concept was firmly accepted by the Catholic Church and the bias was decided, theological and philosophical apologetics followed like changing the interpretation of certain words within scripture (especially the many different words now all translated as hell) and homogenizing them until a tidy picture was/is presented by the Catholic Church on the matter.

These well meaning translation errors and homogenizations persist to this day in any bible you are likely to see and use.

Jesus spoke about Hell more than he did about heaven.

Don't read Plato or Socrates for their theology. They are wrong and your good works cannot save your soul. You need Jesus Christ for that. Hindu, Buddha, good works, nor Mohammed can save you and forgive you of your sins.

 

[SiKnSiN]

Remove them all.

 

[Joe265]

Thanks for sharing your opinion RIP. Unfortunately most of the greatest minds and saints of the early Christian Church disagreed with you, for the first 500 years in fact. You are welcome to your opinion on it though.....

I won't waste time arguing back and forth and quoting convenient scriptures, as I belive it to be the lowest form of Christian apologetics-- more often misused than used correctly.

Many Christians insist that if you question hell, you are rejecting what has always been agreed upon by the Church, but the doctrine of eternal torment was not a widely held view for the first five centuries after Christ, particularly in the early Eastern Church, the Church of the early apostles and Church fathers such as Paul, Clement of Alexandria, St. Gregory of Nyssa, Origen, and others.

The notion of eternal hell slipped into the Catholic Church largely through Augustine who was heavily influenced by Plato's pagan thoughts on the matter of souls and bodies and separation at death.

1. First, Plato believed that the soul was separate from the body and that the soul was fundamentally pure but tends to become deformed through association with the body.
2. Second, like his teacher Socrates, Plato believed that the soul itself was immortal, thus necessitating an eternal destination for the soul after the body dies.
3. Third, Plato proposed that good actions result in a reward in this life, but more importantly, a greater reward after death. Similarly, bad actions result in consequences in this life, but even greater punishment after death.

Plato linked some of his ideas to prevailing Greek mythology, including the locations of Hades and Tartarus. In Greek mythology, Tartarus is the location deep below Hades where the Titans were enslaved and the wicked were tormented. According to Plato, this is where divine punishment was meted out.

It is of this philosopher that St. Augustine said--

“The utterance of Plato, the most pure and bright in all philosophy, scattering the clouds of error . . .”

These ideas proposed by Plato are not from the Bible. They are Greek philosophy. BUT we have spent centuries reading them into the Biblical text and even translating the Biblical text through their lens.


Once the concept was firmly accepted by the Catholic Church and the bias was decided, theological and philosophical apologetics followed like changing the interpretation of certain words within scripture (especially the many different words now all translated as hell) and homogenizing them until a tidy picture was/is presented by the Catholic Church on the matter.

These well meaning translation errors and homogenizations persist to this day in any bible you are likely to see and use.

Faith is most understood by simple children. Not men battling for influence and prestige. The Greeks

It depends on what you mean. I hate that I even had to write that last post. The doctrinal differences are so stupid and base as to be nearly meaningless to me man. I never argue this stuff because I NEED someone to believe what I do-- I do it so that someone who might otherwise reject a relationship with God can see there are alternative perspectives.

Generally speaking though I don't think believing the exact right thing is even the point. It is all language about a banana most people have never eaten-- and they are arguing about the best words to use to describe it.

What I think is really clear and what has been preserved in the monasteries and convents is what I think Christianity is really about which is teachings on how to gain a deep and powerful relationship with God that is transformative and on this front I think it is clear enough to be very workable especially if you concede as I do that the writings of the early saints are an important element in understanding it all.


Also in reference to a different topic we share in common-- out here we is stoned-- immaculate.

When people stop thinking and calculating, the answers eventually become apparent. It’s all a battle between darkness and light, fear and faith, hate and love, etc. THAT is the free will we have been given, and each of us can sense darkness and light within our hearts. It’s literally that simple. Children inherently know this. Adults taint this knowledge by their need to control and dominate in the spirit of darkness.

 

[franklinstower]

Quoting scripture is exactly where we should go when we are discussing the Gospel. Scripture is not "the lowest form of Christian apologetics." Scripture is the foundation.


Jesus spoke about Hell more than he did about heaven.

Don't read Plato or Socrates for their theology. They are wrong and your good works cannot save your soul. You need Jesus Christ for that. Hindu, Buddha, good works, nor Mohammed can save you and forgive you of your sins.

Plato and socrates are the foundation of Augustine's Catholic concept of hell and the purposeful mistranslation of scripture that you ascribe to and quote. You did not read my post or respond intelligently in even the most remote of ways. This is why I usually won't even respond to you.

 

[franklinstower]

Faith is most understood by simple children. Not men battling for influence and prestige. The Greeks

When people stop thinking and calculating, the answers eventually become apparent. It’s all a battle between darkness and light, fear and faith, hate and love, etc. THAT is the free will we have been given, and each of us can sense darkness and light within our hearts. It’s literally that simple. Children inherently know this. Adults taint this knowledge by their need to control and dominate in the spirit of darkness.

I think we are in total agreement.

 

[rearnakedchoke]

This seems ridiculous.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

This seems ridiculous.

Agreed. It's very ridiculous that some people in our country only think the 1st amendment should apply to their religion.

 

[chubbman]

this shit wouldn't happen with any other religion

 

[Ripskater]

Plato and socrates are the foundation of Augustine's Catholic concept of hell and the purposeful mistranslation of scripture that you ascribe to and quote. You did not read my post or respond intelligently in even the most remote of ways. This is why I usually won't even respond to you.

What is Plato and Socrate's belief on Hell?

 

[franklinstower]

What is Plato and Socrate's belief on Hell?

Go back and read my post and respond to each of the points I made RIp. If you are unwilling to do that then dont waste my time.

 

[Ripskater]

Go back and read my post and respond to each of the points I made RIp. If you are unwilling to do that then dont waste my time.

You brought up Plato and Socrates having influenced St. Augustine's view of Hell. I am addressing one of your points right now. Asking you what those philosopher's believed on Hell.

 

[franklinstower]

You brought up Plato and Socrates having influenced St. Augustine's view of Hell. I am addressing one of your points right now. Asking you what those philosopher's believed on Hell.

Your question actually does not accurately explore the point I made about Plato or Socrates. It is a loaded question.

You have to address the whole argument not just one peice of it or else you are wasting time. Go ahead and do that Rip and lets see what happens from there.

 

[rearnakedchoke]

Agreed. It's very ridiculous that some people in our country only think the 1st amendment should apply to their religion.

Agreed.