Prime (in shape) Duran vs prime "Money" Floyd

[LangfordBarrow]

Im still not understanding the bigger guy argument. Weve seen just as many guys going up in weight win fights as we've seen the bigger guy win. Its a tired and dumb argument. Especially when both guys weigh the same on weight in day.
And please give Margarito a rest, he wasnt beating Floyd Mayweather Jr. at anytime ever in his career. Who else can you guys reach with?
Duran loses to Floyd in relatively easy fashion.

You forgot to drop the mic...

 

[nastyleft]

You forgot to drop the mic...

 

[liljoe]

The only fighters of the last 30 or so years who I think could have beat Floyd is a prime Sugar Ray at 147 and prime Oscar at 140-147.
Their combination of speed, power, tough chins and skill could overwhelm Floyd in at least 7 of 12 rounds and thus win a decision.
I don't think Floyd would let himself get ko'd.

 

[KillerIsBack V2]

The only fighters of the last 30 or so years who I think could have beat Floyd is a prime Sugar Ray at 147 and prime Oscar at 140-147.
Their combination of speed, power, tough chins and skill could overwhelm Floyd in at least 7 of 12 rounds and thus win a decision.
I don't think Floyd would let himself get ko'd.

I'll just assume u mean Leonard, and not Rob.
I can see it happen, Leonard was KOing LHW world champions as an old man.

Honestly, the Floyd that Koed Hatton and outboxed and dropped JMM, I'd bet against the oscar which(at least to my eyes) robbed Ike, though it was close. Plus, at same ages, Pretty boy was always faster than The Golden boy.

 

[liljoe]

Oh yeah, Ray leonard is who I mean.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

The only fighters of the last 30 or so years who I think could have beat Floyd is a prime Sugar Ray at 147 and prime Oscar at 140-147.
Their combination of speed, power, tough chins and skill could overwhelm Floyd in at least 7 of 12 rounds and thus win a decision.
I don't think Floyd would let himself get ko'd.

Oscar at 140 was a beast...

 

[Oscaraps]

The only fighters of the last 30 or so years who I think could have beat Floyd is a prime Sugar Ray at 147 and prime Oscar at 140-147.
Their combination of speed, power, tough chins and skill could overwhelm Floyd in at least 7 of 12 rounds and thus win a decision.
I don't think Floyd would let himself get ko'd.

I would add the hitman there since I think he would be a nightmare style wise for Floyd more so than sugar ray . Good point about Oscar at 140... that's a very intriguing fight right there

 

[LangfordBarrow]

I would add the hitman there since I think he would be a nightmare style wise for Floyd more so than sugar ray . Good point about Oscar at 140... that's a very intriguing fight right there

I'd also like to see a Trinidad fight at 147. Not as murderous a puncher as Hearns but still had good height/reach and a good workrate.

 

[RichardSwingslo]

I don't even know what to say hagler is not an all time great ?!? Citing canelo fight ( who had the stupid game plan of trying to box with mayweather) as an example of how a fight with hagler would go ?!? I was saying his ability to box is quite underrated, as far as applying pressure he's one of the best ever, something that has given Floyd problems before..... It's too early in the morning for this , you're letting your bias show a little too much.

I agree Hagler is an all time great.
But oscar gave Canelo the Blue prints, that has to count more.

 

[Oscaraps]

I agree Hagler is an all time great.
But oscar gave Canelo the Blue prints, that has to count more.

I hear what you're saying but canelo didn't implement a viable strategy, he tried to out counter Floyd and we all know no body outcounters Floyd, that's why I said it was a silly gameplay.

 

[RichardSwingslo]

I hear what you're saying but canelo didn't implement a viable strategy, he tried to out counter Floyd and we all know no body outcounters Floyd, that's why I said it was a silly gameplay.

Hahahahah man I was joking about he blueprints. I wish there was a compilation out there with all the times oscar opened the vault to give his fighter the Blueprints for a fight in which he lost at the closest 8-4, and the. Show what really happened in that fight

 

[Oscaraps]

Hahahahah man I was joking about he blueprints. I wish there was a compilation out there with all the times oscar opened the vault to give his fighter the Blueprints for a fight in which he lost at the closest 8-4, and the. Show what really happened in that fight

Hahah nice true true sad how I failed to catch joke , well he did give Floyd some problems with his jab but Floyd being Floyd adjusted and that was that, makes me wonder about Oscar at his prime at 140 ...

 

[thechef]

Hahah nice true true sad how I failed to catch joke , well he did give Floyd some problems with his jab but Floyd being Floyd adjusted and that was that, makes me wonder about Oscar at his prime at 140 ...

Floyd was not at his prime at 147 either. He was an absolute beautiful fighter at 130-135...had all the defense plus threw fantastic combo's. Young Pretty Boy Floyd to me is PRIME Floyd.

 

[Hagler]

Well, it's always hard to define accurately what was a fighter's prime, and in this case I do believe that styles make fights, but Floyd's all-time greatest performance was the beating he gave to Corrales at 130 IMO.

 

[nastyleft]

I'd also like to see a Trinidad fight at 147. Not as murderous a puncher as Hearns but still had good height/reach and a good workrate.

Hmmm, good height and reach, but, I think Tito is a little too "orthodoxed" to be a prolem for Floyd. Tito would get textbook MoneyMay all night. Shell, shell, step with the lead foot toward Tito slowly. Tito throws a solid straight jab, Floyd block/counter/score and cover again still standing right in front of Trinidad. Rinse reset and repeat. Switch patterns and now stand straight-up gloves in front of his face, lead left hook, lean on Tito push away and cover face again. Do that for a bit and give another look, back heel raised torso leaning forward, drop arms, give Tito a lovely looking tee-shot jab, Tito jumps on it and gets caught with a pull counter, Floyd ducks and spins out of there as Trinidad trys to retaliate.

Floyd has only really looked vulnerable when guys are awkward come at different angles and punch from different angels. Tito was too perfectly linear. Almost the perfectly techniqued offensive boxer. Beginning boxers should look at Trinidad when they want to learn what proper stance, jab, straight, hook, uppercut etc. is, cause Tito was almost flawless... But that orthodox style is what Floyd grew up on seeing and beating.

 

[nastyleft]

I agree Hagler is an all time great.
But oscar gave Canelo the Blue prints, that has to count more.

You know, it is a funny thing Oscar gets so much crap for that statement. Cause its helped no one since he fought him, and that makes it funny.

But one thing people overlook is, he kind of did. What I believe he meant by blueprint is a "starting point" with which to work with.
Up until Floyd and Oscar fought, Floyd had been completely untouchable; and impossible to outscore if you werent going to KO him. And everyone knew his defense was too good to get him KO'd (at the time). So basically he was unbeatable and you couldnt even expect to get a hand on him... Think about it, before he fought Oscar he blew through Baldomir, who was Linear (believe it or not) WW Champ; He embarrased Judah (the assumed "man" at WW), destroyed Gatti, and had been KO'ing every MoFo in every weightclass before that, (not to mention his legndary destruction of Corrales). Floyd was more unbeatable then; than he's ever been.

Now here comes Oscar a pretty damn seasoned guy in his own right. And he did the one thing EVERYONE says you should do against a guy that moves his head well and has great defense. For some reason no one else has been disciplined enough to do it with consistency. Anyways, Oscar used his World-Class jab (something he never used enough), and aimed at the throat and middle of Floyd's chest. Not only was he touching Floyd but he was SCORING on Floyd and Floyd was having trouble answering. An actual chance to outscore this guy, something no one had a clue how to do in the last 10 years. Outscore Floyd by actuly using your damn length advantage and not getting countered. I remember a section in the fight where Oscar jabbed Mayweather a couple times right in his chest while Floyd tried to come forward and was stopped in his tracks, counter thrown off, and Floyd started to laugh, big grin like, "ok buddy, nice one, I see you fuckin with me wit that jab".

Than like always, he stopped leading with the jab and started trying to get to Floyd, Floyd made some adjustments and the rest is history, the more skilled younger fresher guy won. I was actully rooting for Oscar that fight. I though he'd seen enough to be able to handle Floyd or at least make it very very interesting. He did and his short success showed something anyone could build upon if they were to beat Floyd in a straight up boxing chess match, cause you can't assume you'll get much chance to knock him out, (not back then). You'll notice not a single pull-counter was attampted by Floyd in that fight. Harder to pull off with a fist in your chest.

I never thought it was silly when Oscar said that, cause I agreed when he said it and still do. Whether anyone has been able to use that as a starting point, stick with it along with the rest of their repotoire, be dilligent, methodical and disciplined and not get into the baits Floyd gives, is another thing.


PS: On another note: I always thought if someone would let Floyd think he was getting baited into a pull counter and threw a One-Two instead of just a jab, a guy could catch Floyd in a Flash KO. Maidana showed that, but he never did it again. I think it was a fluke thing that he just happened to be throwing two punches randomly at that moment, didn't put it in his database to remember, cause he never tried it again. Boxing is so cerebral.

Reg Speed :31
Slo-Mo at :43

 

[borntoloseNOT]

You know, it is a funny thing Oscar gets so much crap for that statement. Cause its helped no one since he fought him, and that makes it funny.

But one thing people overlook is, he kind of did. What I believe he meant by blueprint is a "starting point" with which to work with.
Up until Floyd and Oscar fought, Floyd had been completely untouchable; and impossible to outscore if you werent going to KO him. And everyone knew his defense was too good to get him KO'd (at the time). So basically he was unbeatable and you couldnt even expect to get a hand on him... Think about it, before he fought Oscar he blew through Baldomir, who was Linear (believe it or not) WW Champ; He embarrased Judah (the assumed "man" at WW), destroyed Gatti, and had been KO'ing every MoFo in every weightclass before that, (not to mention his legndary destruction of Corrales). Floyd was more unbeatable then; than he's ever been.

Now here comes Oscar a pretty damn seasoned guy in his own right. And he did the one thing EVERYONE says you should do against a guy that moves his head well and has great defense. For some reason no one else has been disciplined enough to do it with consistency. Anyways, Oscar used his World-Class jab (something he never used enough), and aimed at the throat and middle of Floyd's chest. Not only was he touching Floyd but he was SCORING on Floyd and Floyd was having trouble answering. An actual chance to outscore this guy, something no one had a clue how to do in the last 10 years. Outscore Floyd by actuly using your damn length advantage and not getting countered. I remember a section in the fight where Oscar jabbed Mayweather a couple times right in his chest while Floyd tried to come forward and was stopped in his tracks, counter thrown off, and Floyd started to laugh, big grin like, "ok buddy, nice one, I see you fuckin with me wit that jab".

Than like always, he stopped leading with the jab and started trying to get to Floyd, Floyd made some adjustments and the rest is history, the more skilled younger fresher guy won. I was actully rooting for Oscar that fight. I though he'd seen enough to be able to handle Floyd or at least make it very very interesting. He did and his short success showed something anyone could build upon if they were to beat Floyd in a straight up boxing chess match, cause you can't assume you'll get much chance to knock him out, (not back then). You'll notice not a single pull-counter was attampted by Floyd in that fight. Harder to pull off with a fist in your chest.

I never thought it was silly when Oscar said that, cause I agreed when he said it and still do. Whether anyone has been able to use that as a starting point, stick with it along with the rest of their repotoire, be dilligent, methodical and disciplined and not get into the baits Floyd gives, is another thing.


PS: On another note: I always thought if someone would let Floyd think he was getting baited into a pull counter and threw a One-Two instead of just a jab, a guy could catch Floyd in a Flash KO. Maidana showed that, but he never did it again. I think it was a fluke thing that he just happened to be throwing two punches randomly at that moment, didn't put it in his database to remember, cause he never tried it again. Boxing is so cerebral.

Reg Speed :31
Slo-Mo at :43

Great posts from you tonight/today. Maidana had two things going for him in 1st fight, awkward angles/unorthodox style AND he showed up with a pretty solid jab he stuck to for a bit. Throw in he came to kill Floyd, and that was Maidana's finest hour! A loss, haha, well I guess maybe the Broner beatdown could be considered, too.

Interesting vid, yeah Maidana aint Floyd, so I don't think he could pick up on such a complex would be component to his game in the heat like that. Lucky shot.

As for Oscar's blueprint, well, I liked your write-up, but I think Floyd learned from his mistakes well. Personally I don't believe any fighter is/was going to lay a blueprint thatd work the same wonders on Floyd twice.

 

[HHJ]

The answer is always Duran except for the times when its Chavez Sr.

 

[Seano]

Well, it's always hard to define accurately what was a fighter's prime, and in this case I do believe that styles make fights, but Floyd's all-time greatest performance was the beating he gave to Corrales at 130 IMO.

I think this was Floyd at his absolute physical peak.

 

[quincy k]

Floyd was not at his prime at 147 either. He was an absolute beautiful fighter at 130-135...had all the defense plus threw fantastic combo's. Young Pretty Boy Floyd to me is PRIME Floyd.

he also had much higher output and power as well.

he also had the resume at the lower weights that you couldnt poke holes through