Prime (in shape) Duran vs prime "Money" Floyd

[Oscaraps]

Mmmm it can go both ways for experience and physical prime depending on the fighter.



Man people here are really underestimating Marvelous, you think Floyd is going to shoulder roll his way out the entire fight against someone like hagler?! You think size and strength aren't going to play a role in this fight ? Also where did this notion that Floyd is untouchable come from ?, Mosley hurt him , PAC too, Castillo, Maidana. You mean to tell me hagler wouldn't be able to , if he could walk through hearns right hand he should not have some problems eating some counters to get to him.
Ps hagler Knew how to box quite well people don't give him enough credit for that

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Mmmm it can go both ways for experience and physical prime depending on the fighter.



Man people here are really underestimating Marvelous, you think Floyd is going to shoulder roll his way out the entire fight against someone like hagler?! where did this notion that Floyd is untouchable come from ?, Mosley hurt him , PAC too, Castillo, Maidana. You mean to tell me hagler wouldn't be able to , if he could walk through hearns right hand he should not have some problems eating some counters to get to him.
Ps hagler Knew how to box quite well people don't give him enough credit for that

Rose colored glasses. They're going to give Floyd every benefit of the doubt and downplay every strength of his opponent.

 

[PHATV]

Man people here are really underestimating Marvelous, you think Floyd is going to shoulder roll his way out the entire fight against someone like hagler?! where did this notion that Floyd is untouchable come from ?, Mosley hurt him , PAC too, Castillo, Maidana. You mean to tell me hagler wouldn't be able to , if he could walk through hearns right hand he should not have some problems eating some counters to get to him.
Ps hagler Knew how to box quite well people don't give him enough credit for that

I'm not short-selling Hagler, just pointing out that we're talking about a guy who boxed "quite well" (to use your words) versus one of the finest boxers ever to walk the planet. There is a substantial difference in boxing ability, athleticism, ring IQ, speed and natural talent, IMO. A very substantial difference. Hagler isn't going to lay a bunch of leather on Floyd, he's just not. I would cite the Alvarez bout---when Floyd is already past his prime---as an example/evidence.

I guess I would say Hagler was a great, Floyd is an ATG and the difference would show in that hypothetical matchup. Just my $.02, and again, my $.02 regularly trades for $.01 on the open market so...

 

[PHATV]

Rose colored glasses. They're going to give Floyd every benefit of the doubt and downplay every strength of his opponent.

It's the opposite from my seat. You refuse to give Floyd props on being one of the ATG boxers and try to insinuate he would be beaten by various folks who frankly, were not on his level. Your hate for Floyd lets you see weaknesses that have never shown themselves in a bout.

 

[quincy k]

comparing a 21-year-old 154 pound canelo to hagler is ridiculous

floyd was not prime against madiana but marcos landed 221 punches

 

[PHATV]

comparing a 21-year-old 154 pound canelo to hagler is ridiculous

Not saying they are equal comparisons, simply pointing out that it's very easy to assume someone will "get to" Floyd even though it never came to pass in 49 pro bouts. And by "get to", I mean hurt/put down/stop him, not land a singular shot that seemed to ding him.

floyd was not prime against madiana

Exactly.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

I'm not short-selling Hagler, just pointing out that we're talking about a guy who boxed "quite well" (to use your words) versus one of the finest boxers ever to walk the planet. There is a substantial difference in boxing ability, athleticism, ring IQ, speed and natural talent, IMO. A very substantial difference. Hagler isn't going to lay a bunch of leather on Floyd, he's just not. I would cite the Alvarez bout---when Floyd is already past his prime---as an example/evidence.

I guess I would say Hagler was a great, Floyd is an ATG and the difference would show in that hypothetical matchup. Just my $.02, and again, my $.02 regularly trades for $.01 on the open market so...

Hagler's an ATG there's no doubt about it. It does seem like you're selling him short if you're comparing him to a green Canelo and not considering that bout was contested at 152 pounds. Maybe Floyd wins in a fantasy matchup where you imagine them the same size but at MW he gets wrecked. Were you a boxing fan throughout Hagler's career or have you just watched some specific fights of his?

 

[Oscaraps]

I'm not short-selling Hagler, just pointing out that we're talking about a guy who boxed "quite well" (to use your words) versus one of the finest boxers ever to walk the planet. There is a substantial difference in boxing ability, athleticism, ring IQ, speed and natural talent, IMO. A very substantial difference. Hagler isn't going to lay a bunch of leather on Floyd, he's just not. I would cite the Alvarez bout---when Floyd is already past his prime---as an example/evidence.

I guess I would say Hagler was a great, Floyd is an ATG and the difference would show in that hypothetical matchup. Just my $.02, and again, my $.02 regularly trades for $.01 on the open market so...

I don't even know what to say hagler is not an all time great ?!? Citing canelo fight ( who had the stupid game plan of trying to box with mayweather) as an example of how a fight with hagler would go ?!? I was saying his ability to box is quite underrated, as far as applying pressure he's one of the best ever, something that has given Floyd problems before..... It's too early in the morning for this , you're letting your bias show a little too much.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

It's the opposite from my seat. You refuse to give Floyd props on being one of the ATG boxers and try to insinuate he would be beaten by various folks who frankly, were not on his level. Your hate for Floyd lets you see weaknesses that have never shown themselves in a bout.

Duran, Benitez, Leonard, Hearns, Hagler, Whitaker weren't on Floyd's level? Hagler, Leonard, and Hearns wouldn't have a big size advantage at MW? Those guys in their prime don't compare favorably against Floyd's actual opponents? The guys that were on that level that Floyd did fight, were they seasoned (past their prime), or smaller?

 

[Oscaraps]

Not saying they are equal comparisons, simply pointing out that it's very easy to assume someone will "get to" Floyd even though it never came to pass in 49 pro bouts. And by "get to", I mean hurt/put down/stop him, not land a singular shot that seemed to ding him.



Exactly.

But fighters have gotten to him. Mosley hurt him , Castillo definitely beat him (despite the judges) . Maidana got to him . Floyds is amazing at adjusting during fights. I'm starting to think you really haven't watched a lot of Floyd fights and are just talking a bit out of your behind

 

[quincy k]

Not saying they are equal comparisons, simply pointing out that it's very easy to assume someone will "get to" Floyd even though it never came to pass in 49 pro bouts. And by "get to", I mean hurt/put down/stop him, not land a singular shot that seemed to ding him.



Exactly.

floyd did have excellent punch resistance

 

[Seano]

But fighters have gotten to him. Mosley hurt him , Castillo definitely beat him (despite the judges) . Maidana got to him . Floyds is amazing at adjusting during fights. I'm starting to think you really haven't watched a lot of Floyd fights and are just talking a bit out of your behind

Floyd was well past his prime when he fought Maidana and the fact that Mosley had one good round against him IMO actually proved more about Floyd than the rounds he won.

When you talk Floyd fantasy fights, you have to break it down almost literally by who landed a good shot on Floyd. Duran got outboxed round after round by his best opponents.

 

[PHATV]

Hagler's an ATG there's no doubt about it. It does seem like you're selling him short if you're comparing him to a green Canelo and not considering that bout was contested at 152 pounds. Maybe Floyd wins in a fantasy matchup where you imagine them the same size but at MW he gets wrecked. Were you a boxing fan throughout Hagler's career or have you just watched some specific fights of his?

I'm old (for here), so yes, I saw a lot of Hagler's career as a kid/teen---from the late '70s up until his retirement. I have not watched many bouts of his (Leonard, Hearns, Duran and Mugabi a few times over the years, but only the Hearns bout recently) in decades. Not disputing Hagler is on the ATG list somewhere, just that you're discounting how much higher Floyd sits on that list. My point isn't to denigrate Hagler. Not by a long shot. Only to counter the dismissal of Floyd in that contest.
The Canelo point is only to show that a past-prime Floyd can compete with a great MW puncher who is also a skilled boxer. Don't read too much into that. It's just an example of, in my estimation, how hard it would be for Hagler to find Floyd. You can't beat what you can't hit is all I'm saying. I think Hagler loses that bout. We can agree to disagree on that one.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Floyd was well past his prime when he fought Maidana and the fact that Mosley had one good round against him IMO actually proved more about Floyd than the rounds he won.

When you talk Floyd fantasy fights, you have to break it down almost literally by who landed a good shot on Floyd. Duran got outboxed round after round by his best opponents.

Mosley was 10 years removed from his prime.

 

[Seano]

Mosley was 10 years removed from his prime.

10 years? Thats a stretch.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

10 years? Thats a stretch.

That's when he moved up from LW to fight Oscar. 8 years after the losses to Forrest and 6 years after the losses to Winky.

He's 3-4-1 in fights since with his biggest win coming against a washed up Mayorga.

 

[PHATV]

But fighters have gotten to him. Mosley hurt him , Castillo definitely beat him (despite the judges) . Maidana got to him . Floyds is amazing at adjusting during fights. I'm starting to think you really haven't watched a lot of Floyd fights and are just talking a bit out of your behind

That's not very nice. lol
Again, agree to disagree. I've boxed (Boy's Club stuff as a kid/teen and I wasn't great, to be clear) and I've watched boxing for 40 years. Doesn't make me an expert, as many in this forum are far more knowledgeable about fighters and have read more/watched more bouts, etc.
I don't even claim to be right for sure, but I do think prime Floyd outboxes prime Hagler. Handily.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

That's not very nice. lol
Again, agree to disagree. I've boxed (Boy's Club stuff as a kid/teen and I wasn't great, to be clear) and I've watched boxing for 40 years. Doesn't make me an expert, as many in this forum are far more knowledgeable about fighters and have read more/watched more bouts, etc.
I don't even claim to be right for sure, but I do think prime Floyd outboxes prime Hagler. Handily.

Do you mean in a p4p sense or if they fought at MW?

 

[PHATV]

Do you mean in a p4p sense or if they fought at MW?

Let's say at Caneloweight. Or even 155. I see what you're saying, though. You're talking prime Floyd in the ring at maybe 151 and prime Hagler at 177 that night? From a contracted 160 pure MW limit? Something along those lines?
In that case,...





I'll still take Floyd via UD.

 

[quincy k]

Floyd was well past his prime when he fought Maidana and the fact that Mosley had one good round against him IMO actually proved more about Floyd than the rounds he won.

When you talk Floyd fantasy fights, you have to break it down almost literally by who landed a good shot on Floyd. Duran got outboxed round after round by his best opponents.

37-year-old floyd schooled canelo just eight months earlier.

some believe that hopkins best win was against tarver when he was 41