Lomachenko vs... wait for it... | Page 7

Discussion in 'Boxing Discussion' started by Queen B, Jan 30, 2018.

  1. Seano Hands of bone

    Seano
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    92,459
    Likes Received:
    19,707
    Location:
    the sticks
    No one wants to see a rematch NOW. If it happens now, I'll call it what it will be. An old fighter sacrificing himself for a payday.
     
    #121
  2. ironfist05 Silver Belt

    ironfist05
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    11,295
    Likes Received:
    1,967
    Salido left the division and turned down the rematch several times, even when he was offered exceptional amounts of money. He wanted nothign to do with Lomachenko, that's not even debatable. Not that I blame him, he woudl have gotten anhilated, and deserved to go out on his own terms, but let's call a spade a spade, or in this case, let's call a duck a duck.

    also, the timeline makes little sense. Salido went winless immediately after beating Loma. If Loma didn't want a rematch, he was a duck, and if he did, he was cherry picking a past his prime fighter. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
     
    #122
  3. Seano Hands of bone

    Seano
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    92,459
    Likes Received:
    19,707
    Location:
    the sticks
    He got better paydays and main event status against Martinez and Vargas.

    Well, they did that in the first fight and it backfired.
     
    #123
  4. Dr. Will Orange Belt

    Dr. Will
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2017
    Messages:
    414
    Likes Received:
    284
    Numerically, it counts. But the sport is so much more than that. It's best to see it as it is and with all fairness.
    part a) Salido beat Lomachenko, period. Lomachenko has a loss, period. Lomachenko looked lost throughout most of the fight even if he did win some rounds.

    part b) Lomachenko hadn't adjusted to the professionals at all. He dared to be great. That version of Salido would get beaten and most likely get knocked out against a 2-1 Lomachenko let alone an 10-1 Loma.

    part c) When assessing H2H abilities, we consider the circumstances which helped Salido attain victory need to be considered. i.e the weight, the low blows which had multiple effects on the fight, Loma's undershot pacing strategy, and how much Loma has improved.
     
    #124
  5. ironfist05 Silver Belt

    ironfist05
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    11,295
    Likes Received:
    1,967
    Early offers against Salido were around 500K, at HBO's most generous, Salido was offered something in the 700Ks. If I remember correctly, he got about 400K-500K for Martinez and Vargas. So no, there's really no way to defend Salido here. He ducked harder than Daffy.

    yes, Loma lost, an unfortunate setback for him. Still, doesn't change the fact that Salido avoided a rematch like the plague.
     
    #125
  6. Seano Hands of bone

    Seano
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    92,459
    Likes Received:
    19,707
    Location:
    the sticks
    See, I wonder- Has Lomachenko actually adjusted? Or has he been facing more favorable opponents? Until I see a guy who can get inside on him and rough him up like Salido did, then I remain skeptical.

    Honestly, I see classic Top Rank promotion with Lomachenko. Calling out all these guys but not fighting any of them until they look like garbage. Thats not to say he won't eventually prove me wrong but he's not doing it beating Jason Sosa and 37 year old bantamweights.
     
    #126
  7. moosaev Blue Belt

    moosaev
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2016
    Messages:
    934
    Likes Received:
    793

    The two aren't mutually exclusive though...a young Floyd was indeed better, against a certain type of fighter. But naturally the accrued experience that comes with age allowed him to figure out more awkward fighters in his later years that he may have struggled more with as a youth.
     
    #127
  8. Kovalev's "Man Bag" I don't do titles

    Kovalev's "Man Bag"
    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Messages:
    3,101
    Likes Received:
    2,005
    Location:
    Knox, PA
    Salido admitted himself that Lomachenko was a harder fight for him than Vargas and that he'd need to be paid more. I'll take his word for it over yours.
     
    #128
  9. Dr. Will Orange Belt

    Dr. Will
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2017
    Messages:
    414
    Likes Received:
    284
    I agree, and that's why I also remain a little skeptical. Against certain styles he looks sensational. He's proven to me, through his victory against Rigondeaux that he could beat the very best in boxing matches because of HOW he made Rigo quit - the result would've been similar at any weight any time, that's my take on it and that's why I'm convinced.

    ...BUT I still have those same questions regarding stylistic challenges and stylistic nightmares.

    How would Loma fare against a new Salido, maybe Miguel Roman is our closest shout...but I want to see Loma up against an elite version of a Roman/Salido type fighter too.

    Who can Lomachenko fight to prove himself? He can prove he's a Great fighter by beating Mikey Garcia, but I still will need to see him up against the best.
    The Golovkin hype is proof that we all reserve the right to be skeptical. People were thinking Golovkin could be on Hagler tier, when he turned out to be on more of a Sergio Martinez tier.
     
    #129
  10. Dr. Will Orange Belt

    Dr. Will
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2017
    Messages:
    414
    Likes Received:
    284
    Yeah that makes sense to me, but I also question..by how much exactly was Mayweather better off in his latter years against certain styles given before he was able to get away with a lot more in his youth with his legs, his athleticism, his power - all of which declined as he moved up the weight classes. The Roy Jones-esque qualities.
    Mayweather didn't seem so convincing in the fights immediately after against the awkward fighter - Maidana. I even think that in the short time that he was fighting Victor Ortiz, he was getting tagged from time to time (although that's not really fair on Mayweather as he usually gets better as a fight goes on).
     
    #130
  11. Sunfish Martinez Belt

    Sunfish
    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2012
    Messages:
    20,123
    Likes Received:
    4,656
    I stuck a croque monsieur to get this table of idiots to speak
     
    #131
  12. cedented Purple Belt

    cedented
    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2010
    Messages:
    1,536
    Likes Received:
    1,937
    But you didn't answer my question. If Lomachenko beats Salido, do you think it's a good win?
     
    #132
  13. aries Red Belt

    aries
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2004
    Messages:
    8,811
    Likes Received:
    778
    Location:
    UK
    Have you not seen him low blow people immediately if they hit him a bit low? And he complains to the ref quite a lot now. Those were both things he refused to do in the Salido fight. It's obvious he's made big adjustments. And the sparring stories of him hitting guys hard in the cup and then following with a swift uppercut if they stray too low leaving them gasping for breath. It's pretty obvious he's adapted after the lessons that Salido taught him.
     
    #133
  14. Boxiana Blue Belt

    Boxiana
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2014
    Messages:
    793
    Likes Received:
    987
    TS has bad info it seems.

    Imagine.

     
    #134
  15. Sunfish Martinez Belt

    Sunfish
    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2012
    Messages:
    20,123
    Likes Received:
    4,656
    Fuck off sean, you’ve known for fucking years who slim is. Settle down beavis.
     
    #135
  16. DeJulez Black Belt

    DeJulez
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2014
    Messages:
    6,291
    Likes Received:
    2,268
    Beltran said he'd fight Lomachenko at 130lbs.
    Beltran will win and Loma will be known for being susceptible to the Veteran Mexican grinders
     
    #136
  17. JayE Black Belt

    JayE
    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2016
    Messages:
    5,065
    Likes Received:
    5,644
    Beltran is actually a pretty interesting fight for Lomachenko at 135 (Beltran is a very big 135er and isn't making 130). He has far more in common with Salido than anyone else Lomachenko has fought since that outing, and that win would be a good showcase of his improvements since that Salido fight. Honestly, a guy like Beltran is probably a bigger challenge than Linares (and I'd give Beltran a real chance of beating Linares, as well).
     
    #137
    ironfist05 likes this.
  18. Dr. Will Orange Belt

    Dr. Will
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2017
    Messages:
    414
    Likes Received:
    284
    Lomachenko's recent interview from a couple of days ago in Kiev (a google translation):

    "Linares is that scalp I need". lomachenko is ready for a new opponent
    Ukrainian champion at a press conference in Kiev told about his future fights, relationship with father and performances in MMA.

    About the fight with linares

    - now the negotiations are coming with the linares. The promoters have already utrâsaût the nuances and said they will sign a contract for the week. By 90 % it will be linares, may 12 in New York in the big arena.

    He's a very strong rival, world champion in the next weight category. Fast, serial top-level boxer is the scalp I need. Weak sides? I always look at the strengths, the weak can be seen during the fight.

    As soon as the fight is confirmed, I'll be picking up the athletes that look like his style.

    About the fight with Pacquiao

    - as long as it's talk, and I hope that's the end of it. I don't want to talk to a man who's become a legend and who's already retiring.

    And the weight difference. I can't make him box at least in category 63 kg is wrong, he has a category 66 kg, and if there's something to prove, you need to climb into his weight. Am I ready for this? No, I'm not.

    It would have been five years ago, I might have thought differently, but today I don't want to go.

    About Different Weight Categories with rigondo

    - criticism of méjvezera is his opinion. If you dig deeper, you can remember how he huh marquesa, who boxed 59 kg in a category of 63 kg or even 66 kg.

    It was rigondo who called me to fight, and I didn't say I wanted this fight. But if he wanted to, why not? I invited him when I was less, but he refused, though the difference between us was smaller. But now he has decided that he now wants to take weight at the end of his career. So be it.

    About relationship with father and with children

    He used to have a lot of controversy with him, and I disagreed with him. But right now, with age and experience, you know that coach father gives the right assignment, he cooks you right. And you're starting to trust him a lot more.

    I'm lucky I wasn't just a coach and a father. One man in two faces, and he always convinced me that there was no doubt about the path that was chosen.

    Time to be with family is never enough. For two months, I'm going to prep for the fighting, and I don't see kids. It's complicated. Do I want my son to be a boxer? It's too early to talk about it, and there's no reason to.

    About Contracts with promoters

    - I have a signed contract right now, there's a guaranteed fee - I get what I signed up for.

    I don't want the words of the méjvezera, and I know I deserve more. But now the reality is that I have to fulfill the terms of the contract.

    About MMA

    - nothing to do with Max Holloway's training, I don't know, he was just watching the video of my fights and watching the boxing school for himself.

    With T.J. Dillašou once sparring - four rounds for four minutes. Just asked to stand with him in a couple, but he was all over the rounds, though it was hard for him.

    I can meet with Conor Mcgregor for free, but it's not about the money. MMA and boxing are two different kinds of sports. I'll finish boxing and then I'll think about the UFC.
     
    #138
  19. Kovalev's "Man Bag" I don't do titles

    Kovalev's "Man Bag"
    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Messages:
    3,101
    Likes Received:
    2,005
    Location:
    Knox, PA
    He made $1.2m in his last fight. Recently, according to Floyd, it should've been $2.5m from "Bottom Rank". He'll spar Conor for free is what he's saying, I think (he asked to spar him before but Conor got very defensive). Conor wouldn't do it anyhow because it'd be terrible for his image when the whole session is released without the editing his team will try and do.
     
    #139
  20. randomg1t EVERYTIME CHAMPION

    randomg1t
    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    Messages:
    12,230
    Likes Received:
    2,915
    i'm glad he's making good money, and it doesn't seem like it's affecting his focus in any way.

    a very grounded, well managed fighter so far, it would seem.
     
    #140
    Kovalev's "Man Bag" likes this.

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "fd5733925866a04e50edd70f38dfaa35"
monitoring_string = "603ac9fff68f23709f2a42bf5e29272b"