Lomachenko vs... wait for it...

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Great fighters can deal with dirty ring tactics, by diminishing Salido's victory you only succeed at diminishing Lomachenko.

Loma lost to Salido, flat out.

Salido diminished his own victory by purposing not making weight while Loma had to and then blowing up on fight day to foul in record numbers for 11 rounds straight. By your logic Greb (easily a Top 10 ATG) isn't a great fighter, nor is Bernard Hopkins, et al.

 

[moosaev]

Salido diminished his own victory by purposing not making weight while Loma had to and then blowing up on fight day to foul in record numbers for 11 rounds straight. By your logic Greb (easily a Top 10 ATG) isn't a great fighter, nor is Bernard Hopkins, et al.

Greb was an extremely dirty fighter, so YOU are diminishing Greb by claiming that dirty tactics delegitimizes a victory. Your're whining about stuff that has always happened in boxing. You think Loma is the first fighter who faced an opponent that came in over weight and was dirty? Great fighters prevail in those situations, they don't bitch about it. You wanna go through BoxRec and put an astrix next to every fight that had a few low blows??

This excuse making is really pathetic and it makes Loma fans look really bad to be honest. Its great that you're a Loma fan, but the cult like devotion is absurd.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Greb was an extremely dirty fighter, so YOU are diminishing Greb by claiming that dirty tactics delegitimizes a victory. Your're basically whining about stuff that has always happened in boxing. You think Loma is the first fighter who faced an opponent that came in over weight and was dirty? Great fighters prevail in those situations, they don't bitch about it. You wanna go through BoxRec and put an astrix next to every fight that had a few low blows??

This excuse making is really pathetic and it makes Loma fans look really bad to be honest. Its great that you're a Loma fan, but the cult like devotion is absurd.

Greb was knocked out early in his third professional fight against a lesser fighter than Salido. His opponent "Chip" had a 14 pound weight advantage. Sound familiar? The difference is Lomachenko didn't suffer a bad loss to Salido. Over 100 low blows isn't a "few". A few is 3. You're only 35x off.

 

[moosaev]

Greb was knocked out early in his third professional fight against a lesser fighter than Salido. His opponent "Chip" had a 14 pound weight advantage. Sound familiar? The difference is Lomachenko didn't suffer a bad loss to Salido. Over 100 low blows isn't a "few". A few is 3. You're only 35x off.

I don't believe a loss should define a career, so you're barking up the wrong tree.

But it is disingenuous to position Loma as a green professional. Loma is/was one of the most prolific amateurs in Boxing history, he was more experienced than many multi-year professionals. You can't hide behind the fact that Loma's developmental stage was in the amateurs whereas most fighters (especially old timers like Greb) had their developmental stages in the pro's.

And a 100 low blows? LMAO, ok.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

I don't believe a loss should define a career, so you're barking up the wrong tree.

You were the one that replied to me. Did I say that a loss defined a career? I'm glad you see it that way too.

But it is disingenuous to position Loma as a green professional. Loma is/was one of the most prolific amateurs in Boxing history, he was more experienced than many multi-year professionals. You can't hide behind the fact that Loma's developmental stage was in the amateurs whereas most fighters (especially old timers like Greb) had their developmental stages in the pro's.

You don't need to tell me about Loma's amateur career. His boxing experience was in electronically scored points and not the 10 point must system. Lomachenko's development didn't come before his first 12 rounder in professional boxing. He gained a ton of experience as an amateur against every style minus Salido's. Salido's style would get him DQ'ed in the amateurs due to the bevy of dirty tactics and he would've been forced to make weight. If they rematched on Loma's terms this time, last time they were on Salido's, expect point deductions if not an outright DQ if Salido chose to fight him the same way. Need proof? Rigo was deducted a point for holding. Greb didn't fight a top fighter in his division with a shit ton of pro experience. Salido is a convicted PED cheat and one of the dirtiest fighters in modern boxing history. If you don't believe that his tactics helped eke out that split decision then you're being disingenuous as usual.

And a 100 low blows? LMAO, ok.

There were 105 hand counted by @aries . I stopped counting around 50.

 

[moosaev]

You were the one that replied to me. Did I say that a loss defined a career? I'm glad you see it that way too.



You don't need to tell me about Loma's amateur career. His boxing experience was in electronically scored points and not the 10 point must system. Lomachenko's development didn't come before his first 12 rounder in professional boxing. He gained a ton of experience as an amateur against every style minus Salido's. Salido's style would get him DQ'ed in the amateurs due to the bevy of dirty tactics and he would've been forced to make weight. If they rematched on Loma's terms this time, last time they were on Salido's, expect point deductions if not an outright DQ if Salido chose to fight him the same way. Need proof? Rigo was deducted a point for holding. Greb didn't fight a top fighter in his division with a shit ton of pro experience. Salido is a convicted PED cheat and one of the dirtiest fighters in modern boxing history. If you don't believe that his tactics helped eke out that split decision then you're being disingenuous as usual.



There were 105 hand counted by @aries . I stopped counting around 50.

Salido's tactics did help eke out the victory and I never claimed otherwise, but thats boxing dude. This isn't complicated to understand. Boxing has never been and never will be a clean or honorable sport. At the end of the day, Loma lost to a fighter that was more experienced and better at that stage - partially because he understood how to be dirty without losing points. However, when i scored the fight I saw Salido legitimately make Loma pay with solid body punching and inside fighting (as well as low blows, I'm not going to trust Aries on his 105 count, he's a Loma fan). You're being silly by entirely discounting Salido's generalship in the ring, you can't beat Loma by ONLY being dirty.

Its just strange that you're going to such lengths to delegitimize Salido's win, to the point of throwing insults (the shade about me being disingenuous as usual). I have my favorites but I strive to be somewhat objective,...you on the other hand are just blatantly in the tank for Loma.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Salido's tactics did help eke out the victory and I never claimed otherwise, but thats boxing dude. This isn't complicated to understand. Boxing has never been and never will be a clean or honorable sport. At the end of the day, Loma lost to a fighter that was more experienced and better at that stage - partially because he understood how to be dirty without losing points. However, when i scored the fight I saw Salido legitimately make Loma pay with solid body punching and inside fighting (as well as low blows, I'm not going to trust Aries on his 105 count, he's a Loma fan). You're being silly by entirely discounting Salido's generalship in the ring, you can't beat Loma by ONLY being dirty.

Its just strange that you're going to such lengths to delegitimize Salido's win, to the point of throwing insults (the shade about me being disingenuous as usual). I have my favorites but I strive to be somewhat objective,...you on the other hand are just blatantly in the tank for Loma.

Salido did put in good body work. Plenty of it. His ring generalship was superior because in the amateurs that isn't nearly as important. When you establish a points lead boxers just run after it's secured most of the time. Salido didn't even bother to make weight to defend his title and low blowed for 11 consecutive rounds, but that shouldn't be pointed out? Or, the fact that he was actually caught using PEDs (which were present in his A sample, should have never been there in the first place) in the Guerrero fight while Loma's never tested positive for a PED of any kind (including throughout his amateur career)?

Saying that Loma had already fully developed before he turned pro is disingenuous, as if there was nothing left for him to learn as a pro. That or it's just ignorance on your part. His improvement has been very obvious since the Salido loss 4 years ago.

 

[moosaev]

Salido did put in good body work. Plenty of it. His ring generalship was superior because in the amateurs that isn't nearly as important. When you establish a points lead boxers just run after it's secured most of the time. Salido didn't even bother to make weight to defend his title and low blowed for 11 consecutive rounds, but that shouldn't be pointed out? Or, the fact that he was actually caught using PEDs (which were present in his A sample, should have never been there in the first place) in the Guerrero fight while Loma's never tested positive for a PED of any kind (including throughout his amateur career)?

Saying that Loma had already fully developed before he turned pro is disingenuous, as if there was nothing left for him to learn as a pro. That or it's just ignorance on your part. His improvement has been very obvious since the Salido loss 4 years ago.

This is getting ridiculous. Can you prove that Salido was juicing against Loma? You're literally throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks.

If you wanna do a PED witch-hunt you'll need to throw out half the boxing greats over the last 20 yrs. Its a silly game to play.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

This is getting ridiculous. Can you prove that Salido was juicing against Loma? You're literally throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks.

If you wanna do a PED witch-hunt you'll need to throw out half the boxing greats over the last 20 yrs. Its a silly game to play.

Why would a fighter cheat earlier in their career when they're younger and then stop as they're older and worn? That's why this old adage still exists, "Once a cheat, always a cheat". How many of these boxing greats tested positive for an anabolic steroid after winning a world title and were stripped? Why would a guy that clearly doesn't mind cheating in the ring also not cheat outside of it? When you get caught for doping it tarnishes your accomplishments past, present and future. That's how it works. While I can't prove that Salido was juicing it can't be disproven that he wasn't still using.

 

[aries]

Salido's tactics did help eke out the victory and I never claimed otherwise, but thats boxing dude. This isn't complicated to understand. Boxing has never been and never will be a clean or honorable sport. At the end of the day, Loma lost to a fighter that was more experienced and better at that stage - partially because he understood how to be dirty without losing points. However, when i scored the fight I saw Salido legitimately make Loma pay with solid body punching and inside fighting (as well as low blows, I'm not going to trust Aries on his 105 count, he's a Loma fan). You're being silly by entirely discounting Salido's generalship in the ring, you can't beat Loma by ONLY being dirty.

Its just strange that you're going to such lengths to delegitimize Salido's win, to the point of throwing insults (the shade about me being disingenuous as usual). I have my favorites but I strive to be somewhat objective,...you on the other hand are just blatantly in the tank for Loma.

Don't trust me then, go back and watch the entire fight and count them for yourself. Lomachenko only lost because the referee didn't do his job. Salido got extremely lucky that the referee was essentially blind to what he was doing. Salido couldn't have had a better night than if he'd have paid the referee to look the other way. Salido would have had points deducted and DQ'd if he'd have thrown that many lowblows against an opponent with any ref that was close to being average. The result was a freak result because of the manner in which it was achieved. Salido couldn't manage this feat again even if he was given a career high payday because he would need a bent referee to achieve it.

The nut shots were extremely important to Salido winning because they were so indefensible. You can defend against body shots by blocking with your elbows and that also lets you get counters off after blocking. But you can't defend low blows in the same manner because they go below the elbows. Watch the fight again and see how Lomachenko was shucking his hips back from the low blows. Because of that reaction his hips were out of position and he couldn't mount any meaningful counter offence. The low blows had a massive bearing on the result of this fight to pretend otherwise is blatantly dishonest.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Greb was an extremely dirty fighter, so YOU are diminishing Greb by claiming that dirty tactics delegitimizes a victory. Your're whining about stuff that has always happened in boxing. You think Loma is the first fighter who faced an opponent that came in over weight and was dirty? Great fighters prevail in those situations, they don't bitch about it. You wanna go through BoxRec and put an astrix next to every fight that had a few low blows??

This excuse making is really pathetic and it makes Loma fans look really bad to be honest. Its great that you're a Loma fan, but the cult like devotion is absurd.

From another thread today...

The French ref was pretty god awful in that fight. Benn was bending below the waist consistently without any warning. Good win for Benn, but i still think if G-man was healthy he would've KO'd Nigel Benn. Despite the result i think that fight proved that McLellan was the better fighter.

You barked up the wrong tree. Do yourself a favor and just logoff for today, pal. Your "credibility" is now zero.

 

[moosaev]

From another thread today...


You barked up the wrong tree. Do yourself a favor and just logoff for today, pal. Your "credibility" is now zero.

You're a fucking moron. In that same quote i said it was a good win for Nigel Benn. Which is the exact opposite of what youre saying about Salido you dipshit.

I tried keeping this respectful but you're such a bitch.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

You're a fucking moron. In that same quote i said it was a good win for Nigel Benn. Which is the exact opposite of what youre saying about Salido you dipshit.

I'm tried keeping this respectful but you're such a bitch.

Internet tough guy alert! You were whining about him bending below the belt line yet you were saying that I was whining about 100 low blows while telling me that boxing isn't fair and never has been. Got it.

 

[Noctilux]

I don't believe a loss should define a career, so you're barking up the wrong tree.

But it is disingenuous to position Loma as a green professional. Loma is/was one of the most prolific amateurs in Boxing history, he was more experienced than many multi-year professionals.

Everything you say it true, except you fail to mention in amateurs fighter tactics and behavior are held to a higher standard, something Loma clearly did not take into account going in and during the match. Regardless, that loss was more valuable than any of his wins. He clearly learned from it.

 

[moosaev]

Internet tough guy alert! You were whining about him bending below the belt line yet you were saying that I was whining about 100 low blows while telling me that boxing isn't fair and never has been. Got it.

You're blaming Salido for the ref not doing his job while also trying to delegitimize his win. While I explicitly gave credit to Benn for the win and don't hold him accountable for bad reffing. We're literally doing the exact opposite things and the fact that you actually think you got me shows how much of an imbecile you really are.

 

[DeJulez]

Salido is the shit. Fuck Loma.
It's a dirty game. Wear a cup.

 

[aries]

Salido is the shit. Fuck Loma.
It's a dirty game. Wear a cup.

To be fair to Lomachenko, he never complained once to the referee during the whole fight. That was a bad move on his part as was him not hitting back Salido with low blows of his own. He's learned from that fight and he low blows back now and complains to the ref when needed. If they met now and Salido tried that shit Lomachenko would make a speed bag out of his nuts.

 

[adifighter86]

But I thought Lomachenko will fight Pacquiao?

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

You're blaming Salido for the ref not doing his job while also trying to delegitimize his win. While I explicitly gave credit to Benn for the win and don't hold him accountable for bad reffing. We're literally doing the exact opposite things and the fact that you actually think you got me shows how much of an imbecile you really are.

The point flew over your head. If you can't spot your own hypocrisy and man up then I'm not going to point it out to you. You've credited Lomachenko for one win, the Russell Jr. fight, and made excuses for the rest. A fighter will never receive full credit for not making weight on purpose as part of their strategy, nor should they.

 

[Seano]

This is an unfair standard.
Floyd at the time allowed himself to adjust to the pros and become P4P no.1 for years before and after. We are all confident Lomachenko NOW knocks out the 2013 version of Salido.
The Salido fight was lost on the basis of two things: Pacing strategy and low blows setting up other shots & setting up effective aggression.

Lomachenko didn't even take the time to adjust himself to the professionals. Pacing strategy massively impacts Lomachenko's game. Without it, he throws too little and doesn't enact his gameplan properly. After the Salido and Russell Jr fights, Lomachenko 'found his feet' so to speak and has proven unbeatable ever since.

Zab was one fight removed from the lineal WW title, but the most recent fight was him losing to C+ grade Carlos Baldomir.

Salido was in the form of his life, he went on to clearly beat Rocky Martinez twice, and drew with Francisco Vargas (a prime version). Salido only loses to the elites.

Don't call me out on the standard, call out the guy who put the comparison out there first.

Lomachenko lost his fight, Floyd won his. The idea is that Floyd would be considered lesser if he lost but Lomachenko somehow is exempt from that criticism?

Lomachenko made the decision to enter the elite level before was ready. Period. I don't get what an imaginary scenario with Floyd losing has to do with Lomachenko.

Lomachenko has a LOT to accomplish before he shares the room with Floyd in terms of greatness and that Salido loss and reluctance to rematch is always going to haunt him. Just like it would Floyd had he lost to Genaro Hernandez.