How One Muslim Suicide Has Been Used to Destroy the Marine Corps

Just remember the ASVAB is a percentile test. If you get a 31 that means you beat out 30 percent of the population who took the ASVAB in terms of intellect. Imagine how dumb the people with low 30s are and realize the military screens out the bottom third of people who wanted to join.
 
When I got promoted to Corporal I was sick the whole next day because part of the ritual is to drink a one liter canteen of whatever the seniors want to put in it. Typically and in my case hard liquor.


What do you expect it is a branch of guy in their early 20s

Having a common age to rank ratio was always a good thing in the Marines. Even if it was slightly younger on average. Things went much smoother because of it.

In the Army there is a wide age range for all ranks and we got a lot of dinosaurs that are stuck in their ways. So things can get frustrating at times. The cut back years of 2010 - 2014 helped get rid of some old fogies but not enough IMO.

Source: Did my first 8 years in the USMC and crossed over to the Army in 2006.
 
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we hear from rural america all the fucking time. they dont shut up about it. America in general is hard as fuck. you think you can make it in NYC or any other major urban environment by being a pussy? Hell, common american tropes have always been about how tough city folk are and how friendly and down to earth country folk are.

You can do that in NYC if you live in midtown or Downtown Manhattan, Williamsburg, etc, etc.
 
You are always such a salty little bitch when you post. Seriously, i don't think i have ever seen a post of yours where you weren't fucking crying about something. You should probably get on anti-depressants dude. My dad saw the whole thing happen and so did a bunch of his buddies who served with him. I guess they are all liars.

That's your opinion dude,

Plus, you only have a join date of 2015. So I understand your ignorance to SMEAC's many years of damn good posts.
 
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That's your opinion dude,

Plus, you only have a join date of 2015. So I understand your ignorance to SMEAC's many years of damn good posts.

I've been posting on here since way before 2015, which isn't uncommon for a lot of people on this forum. You can or cannot choose to believe me. I've seen a lot of his posts and he just always comes off as angry and bitter about everything every single time he posts.

Yeah, i've seen him own some people when it comes to the military, i just don't know why he has to be so fucking angry all the time. Listen, i'm not anti-military or non "patriotic" at all. I love my country. I'm just telling you what i've personally seen.

I mean, i love reading about badass spec ops dudes from the Seals, Pararescue, Delta, Force Recon, Rangers, etc. I love to watch A-10's go all BRRRT on terrorists (GAU Avenger ftw). I own several guns and while i can understand having necessary gun safety laws, i think the over the top laws and restrictions on guns here in MA are fucking stupid. They basically allow me to only half defend myself properly. Like the 10 round cap law on mags or no muzzle breaks or any type of accessory on the end of the barrel. So i'm not some kind of hippy who hates our military, so everyone can chill.
 
This is just the latest hit piece on the Marine Corps due to a suicide.

A sad story. The kid volunteers to serve his country and is killed during training due to hazing. Nothing new really. Unfortunately hazing happens too often and the majority of cases go unreported. Like females in the military who are raped. The stories I’ve heard of the hazing that goes on inside the U.S. Marine Corps Drill Platoon or the Honor Guard in the U.S. Army. This is hazing from within the ranks by young Marines and young soldiers. Usually the ‘rite of passage’ for new members. Not so different from the hazing that goes on in college Fraternities. Black Fraternities even brand their pledges. Unfortunately, individuals get killed in the process.

This was a Marine NCO with no discipline. An individual who was fucked in the head. A ‘shit’ bag. A ‘cancer’ in the Marine NCO Corps. Not worthy of the title Marine. To me it comes down to a leadership problem. Other Marine NCOs were around and witnessed what was happening. Why did they not say anything or report? What about the officer in charge? Why did he/she not know what was going on? There is a fine line between professional hard training to weed out the weak and downright hazing and abuse. Once you cross that line into hazing it is no longer about training a recruit but all about getting your ‘kicks’ and being unprofessional.

The Marine Corps is not going to be destroyed by this incident. It has happened before and it will happen again. Just like the rape of female Marines. Give it 6 months and no one will remember it, until the next incident or rape. Nothing is going to change. I feel sorry for the ‘stain’ this brings to the Marine Corps and the majority of good professional Marines.

"There is a perspective on the base that somehow you can make a better Marine by beating the shit out of him, I have argued consistently that it’s not true — you do not make a better Marine by treating them that way; in fact, it’s totally against what we as a Marine Corps stand for. But it’s a mentality that has existed down there."

"Gunnery Sgt. Joseph Felix was one of Lima Company’s most aggressive D.I.s. -- On July 14, 2015, Felix and several other D.I.s entered the squad bay in the middle of the night. It appeared they’d been drinking. Felix was so drunk ‘he might not have known what he did the next day,’ according to one member of Platoon 3054. -- Four months after the hazing reports, Gunnery Sgt. Felix returned to the Third Battalion and assumed the title of senior drill instructor, this time for Platoon 3042."

Retired from the U.S. Army…
 
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There are a lot of things at play here at one time. First of all, you have a weak kid who probably should not have been there, and if the Marine Corps itself wasn't so stringent about initial retention, or didn't put so much pressure on recruiters to begin with, this kid either would have 1.) washed out of Boot Camp very early on or 2.) been laughed out of the recruiter's office. But a recruiter not meeting his or her quota enough times can end their career, which is beyond stupid. It's how you get kids like this, who have obviously spent their entire lives hanging out in their room playing Call of Duty and building robots. If you have to learn to swim before trying to join a military branch whose stated purpose is to conduct amphibious warfare operations, you might be about to f**k up.

Secondly, you have a combined problem of what is clearly toxic leadership from the very top. You have a Colonel who has been there for some time. We're at the time this happened 15 years into a war and instead of having a combat command somewhere he's been the commander of the Parris Island Recruit Depot for a significant amount of time. That sounds like a red flag right there. Add to that that you have the female Lt Col who just so happens to be coming from a previous assignment as a JAG prosecutor and is coming there after numerous accusations of hazing have already been made, who is described in the article as "percived as meddlesome". That's more than likely because she was. She was probably sent there specifically to meddle. This more than likely caused an environment where these two people weren't really communicating with each other, and none of the subordinates really understood who was in charge, as the Col is described as "hands off." Most Marines that I've been around, hell most people in general, if there is no leader or at least a person in charge will simply do whatever they want.

Third, you have a sub culture here of people who aren't Drill Instructors, who aren't Marines, who are brought in in advance of this event to look for that big boogie man known as "hazing" who don't understand the Marine Corps or what the purpose of Boot Camp is. for example, from the article:

In 1998, a Navy chaplain, Thomas Creely, now retired, came to Parris Island to serve as chaplain for the recruit training regiment and noticed a particularly stark pattern of abuse in the Third. ‘‘For example,’’ he later wrote in a paper presented to the International Society for Military Ethics, ‘‘after lunch recruits were made to drink water until they vomited. Then they were made to do push-ups in their own vomit.’’ Creely worked with the command until 2003 to try to eradicate the problem, but the ‘‘blind loyalty of drill instructors,’’ who remained silent in the face of abuse, stood in the way. ‘‘What you have in the Third Battalion is a cycle of abuse,’’ Creely told me recently. ‘‘And until that cycle is broken, it doesn’t matter how much education you do.’’

This is not hazing. The entire purpose of Boot Camp is to teach you not to quit. To put you in uncomfortable and unfamiliar situations and force your mind to go to places that you don't want to go. As a civilian if you're doing something, say working out, and you puke all over yourself, you're done for the whole day. That's just it. Combat doesn't work like that. You get sick on patrol 5 clicks from the FOB they aren't calling a medivac for you and you can't just stop and hang out. Yes, they forced those kids to drink a bunch of water, do push ups until they puked, and then do more push ups in said vomit, probably more exercises than that, and do you know what happened to those kids? NOTHING. There was nothing physically wrong with them. That was the entire point. To teach them that, that you're fine, that you can keep going and it is all in your mind. That you don't get to stop just because you threw up, or because you rolled an ankle, etc.

Lastly, and this is the biggest problem that I see most Marines totally unwilling to address is that what you have here are absolutely out of control Drill Instructors doing absurd things. They put this kid in a goddamn dryer. A Drill Instructor's job is to teach you about the Marine Corps, it's to be hard on you, yes most of the time it's about being in your face. But what we're talking about there is a sadistic person put in a postion of power with no actual oversight whatsoever and a kid, who just so happened to be a Muslim, died because of it.
 
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The liberal left appears to be complicit alongside CAIR in a assault on our national defense. This is just the latest hit piece on the marine corps due to the suicide of one Muslim Recruit. Now they along with the Muslim lobby want the whole boot camp process watered down in order for the national defesne to be weakened. Did this kid commit suicide or did he commit jihad when he jumped?
Already dozens of career Marines have lost their jobs. What is next?


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/06/...ed-a-culture-of-brutality-in-the-marines.html

Honestly in my Boot Camp experience, I never once saw something I would consider out of the line hazing. People were punished with incentive training for making mistakes and yelled at, but it was never anything racial or really bad. Mostly it was just getting people used to high stress environments. In fact, it was a lot easier than I thought it would be. Typically they would make you do some variation of a high intensity workout for 5-15 minutes and be done with it. It was "punishment", but really it was just a quick workout. I found most of the experience to be pretty hilarious. There's a couple guys that got it fairly bad, but they were legitimate fuck ups.

You don't need to beat people or call them racial slurs to turn them into Marines. If they really did stuff recruits into a dryer and shit, then those career Marines were pieces of shit who deserved to lose their jobs. It's that simple. They dishonored my Marine Corps and don't deserve to lead recruits into their careers as Marines or hold the title themselves. It's fucking wrong.

Of course, the worst DI they talk about was a fucking POG. Always over compensating for something.
 
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What do you expect it is a branch of guy in their early 20s

That are US Marines...how about not acting like your typical college fraternity members. What this whole story is about is a group of Marines took "having a little fun" to far and a man lost his life because of it. If those Marines don't have the better judgment to realize they are taking things to far they really don't have the judgment they need to be in a battle. Thus, they should no longer be Marines.
 
That are US Marines...how about not acting like your typical college fraternity members. What this whole story is about is a group of Marines took "having a little fun" to far and a man lost his life because of it. If those Marines don't have the better judgment to realize they are taking things to far they really don't have the judgment they need to be in a battle. Thus, they should no longer be Marines.

The recruit who committed suicide did so based upon the same level of stress that tens of thousands of people are put through every year in recruit training. Some people are mentally weak and can not handle the stress. That does not make the process bad. The fact that a couple times a year someone tries to take their life during boot camp is just part of life. People die every day. I used to work at MCRD San Diego. Part of my job was to process kids out. It sucks people can't make it but that is on them not on the Marines.
 
The recruit who committed suicide did so based upon the same level of stress that tens of thousands of people are put through every year in recruit training. Some people are mentally weak and can not handle the stress.

...and it is the Drill Instructor's job to weed out the weak before they kill themselves.
 
The recruit who committed suicide did so based upon the same level of stress that tens of thousands of people are put through every year in recruit training. Some people are mentally weak and can not handle the stress. That does not make the process bad. The fact that a couple times a year someone tries to take their life during boot camp is just part of life. People die every day. I used to work at MCRD San Diego. Part of my job was to process kids out. It sucks people can't make it but that is on them not on the Marines.

No, this kid was put under more stress. It is also the job of the Marines to know when enough is enough. Washing people out is okay. Driving them to suicide is not.
 
No, this kid was put under more stress. It is also the job of the Marines to know when enough is enough. Washing people out is okay. Driving them to suicide is not.

I used to have to take the suicide attempts over to Balboa.hospital from MCRD. Everyone of them clearly had something wrong with them. This isn't something you can account for. The DIs are not therapist and they are not trained or inclined to sit down with each recruit and make that sort of determination.
 
The military in general and Marines especially will find anything they can needle you on and then just amp that shit up to 11. All my friends that are vets rant on me being half Asian and not being able to drive and be shit at math while we make fun of the Guatemalan friends of ours for being Mexico's version of Mexico so on and so forth.

I mean, the fucking DIs should show you where this shit goes:


People laugh at the Full Metal Jacket basic scene, especially the opening one where the black dude gets called Pvt. Snowball and Lawrence starts getting called Gomer Pyle but all my friends that were Marines were like "that... ACTUALLY happens"

For the un-initiated:
 
I used to have to take the suicide attempts over to Balboa.hospital from MCRD. Everyone of them clearly had something wrong with them. This isn't something you can account for. The DIs are not therapist and they are not trained or inclined to sit down with each recruit and make that sort of determination.

That might be an augment if this happened during what is normal training. Of course this is not the case. This was not simply a case of someone with mental problems. This was them pushing someone well past their breaking point to the point of suicide.
 
That might be an augment if this happened during what is normal training. Of course this is not the case. This was not simply a case of someone with mental problems. This was them pushing someone well past their breaking point to the point of suicide.
Everyone's breaking point is in a different spot though.

I know this is an HBO portrayal but as I understand it this sorta shit right here is normal course and that could cause some people to break:





Like, I play video games with a bunch of guys that are vets (I'd be one too if I wasn't fat as fuck in high school) and here's the list of things said about me, the half Asian one of the group:
- How do you get a girl off with your tiny dick?
- Can you do my math homework for tech school?
- Glad you weren't in cause I wouldn't trust you driving between your shit ability and your slanty eyes preventing you from seeing the road
- I doubt Greg coulda passed basic because he wouldn't be able to see the target on account of his eyes

You get where this is going? All that shit makes me laugh my ass off and I go after them in turn for similar ridiculous stereotypes. Now, some people have people do that to them they might lose it.
 
Everyone's breaking point is in a different spot though.

Yes, everyone breaks at a certain point. Thing is when a person reaches that point and you keep pushing at a certain point it becomes criminal.
 
The recruit who committed suicide did so based upon the same level of stress that tens of thousands of people are put through every year in recruit training. Some people are mentally weak and can not handle the stress. That does not make the process bad. The fact that a couple times a year someone tries to take their life during boot camp is just part of life. People die every day. I used to work at MCRD San Diego. Part of my job was to process kids out. It sucks people can't make it but that is on them not on the Marines.

i agree. boot camp is supposed to be stressful. imagine if this guy made it through basic all the while still being mentally weak and in a situation 10X more stressful than basic....he would have ended up killing himself and possibly other marines along the way.

the recruit could have taken another approach: give up. hundreds of recruits are processed out because they fail to adjust, medically disqualified, etc. they get out and get to live out their lives.... we all have a choice and this kid reacted in the most extreme manner
 
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