Greg Hardy is already a top 10 HW. Let’s put feelings aside and be real here

Discussion in 'The Wasteland' started by Njmma209, Jun 13, 2018.

  1. hillelslovak87

    hillelslovak87 Silver Belt

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    Now this is pod racing!!!
    Stockholm wife confirmed.
     
  2. Hard To Tell

    Hard To Tell Yellow Card Yellow Card

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    Wladimir Klitschko used to say similar things. He admitted that we wasn't really a natural fighter in the tough guy sense, just an amazing athlete with the physical attributes needed to be successful. And that's in boxing which in terms of the level and depth of talent is still light years ahead of MMA.

    People keep saying "athleticism is not that important in fighting" but this just simply isn't true.
     
  3. Raksas

    Raksas Green Belt

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    I don't see how anybody would think that but you're entitled to that opinion
     
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  4. bigconan

    bigconan Red Belt

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    why do people attack him for some alleged crime...something he was never charged for? we live in an age where women are out to get men...that should be very obvious with everything going on today...men are the target. so if some broad claims he did something, that automatically means he's guilty? Sorry, but that's not how things work...there's a reason why no charges for filed and there's a reason why he wasn't prosecuted...cause there is no case...It's a typical woman out to get a man...
     
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  5. MusterX

    MusterX Steel Belt

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    I'm not downplaying anything, or at least I'm not trying to. My point was that Herschel was a legit freak of nature as far as athletic ability. The guy was fighting in a cage at almost 50 years old and looked shredded. I have no idea how that could be real unless he was juiced.
     
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  6. xyzxyz94

    xyzxyz94 Green Belt

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    Maybe not by the time he was in the UFC but prime Lesnar was an A+ level athlete.
     
  7. Benoitthegr8

    Benoitthegr8 Bum Life Practitioner

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    A level athlete gets clipped hard once and he becomes a B level athlete, gets clipped again C level athlete and so on...

    all any UFC HW has to do is connect twice and their on a level playing field in terms of athleticism...?

    or does that only work with belts...?

    you can’t train chin, heart, and instincts, that all gets figured out once a fighter has faced legit competition.

    GH may have some raw untapped potential, but we need a bigger sample size before anyone declares him a legit UFC HW, as DC would say “there’s levels to this”
     
  8. podsox

    podsox Red Belt

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    That fight had the first guy to land was going to end it. Hardy flew back from a jab. Both guys were throwing heat. Hardy just landed first. Nice win and hightlight ko
     
  9. MikeMcMann

    MikeMcMann Red Belt

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    It's really quite an ignorant view actually.

    Hand speed, foot speed, reflexes, balance, power, timing, all matter a ton.

    A guy like Forrest Griffin when fighting mostly similar fighters can get by being very poor in most of those areas because he has massive heart and no quit in him (in his prime) but when you put him up against an A-Level athlete who also has massive heart and that fighting spirit his weaknesses stand out. He looks slow as molasses and is often punching air as his hand speed and adjustments and reflexes are just slow comparatively.

    This is what happens when someone has the athleticism gap over another and while not all just athleticism that is the key to the differences when you see him fight other A level fighters like Toney.

     
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  10. Final Say

    Final Say You's'll Belt

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    Teixeiria is trash, Rumble is an easy win for any wrestler and retired, DC came from and is back fighting at heavyweight and Jon jones has fought twice in about four years

    it ain't close
    Toughness and heart are not related to athleticism.

    Athleticism is meaningful, but I'll say it again, it's far down the list of relevant traits in fighting.

    In your 100 v 100 compariso, I would not say 'vastly more' from top sports would succeed and in fact I doubt the number would be much higher st all among athletes. If you take a random guy off the street with no inclination to fight or do anything athletic, the comparison doesn't make sense.

    So how about you take 100 people who actually did walk in and sign up with a top level gym? And compare that to 100 athletes from top sports? The difference would be close to zero, even though it's impossible to prove because those guys will never try their hand at fighting.

    And your last paragraph pretty much explains why you agree with me lol
     
  11. Raksas

    Raksas Green Belt

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    HW has Stipe and that's it. Blaydes is still green behind the ears and unproven. Overeem has been competing for over 2 decades, same with Hunt and Werdum. JDS is shot beyond belief. Beating guys like that doesn't make Volkov elite either. Guys like Overeem, Hunt, Arlovski, JDS aren't even supposed to be near the top 10 anymore anyway but since the division is so fucking weak the grandpas are still able to linger around the top 10. Other than Stipe there are no prime elite fighters at HW. With DC moving up there are 2. DC at least is still relatively young in mma years.
     
  12. MikeMcMann

    MikeMcMann Red Belt

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    Of course they are.

    Top Tier sports screen for this at the highest level all through the process. You are not going to make it through the high school comp, the university comp, the levels and levels of challenge you face to make it to the next level without toughness and heart.

    I would say toughness and heart are even more important than raw athletic skill in making it to the Pro ranks.

    There are many talented guys you will play with over the years who just does not have the oughness and heart and do not cut it.
     
  13. Final Say

    Final Say You's'll Belt

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    I feel like you could say pretty much the same exact thing for light heavyweight, just switch out the names. Gus is really the only exception. It's a two man division... and with Jones gone there's only one. And he doesn't even have the belt lol.
    Idk man, lots of people who are not 'tough' orndont have 'heart' in the NBA, MLB, soccer, Olympics.....

    I feel like toughness and heart are two things required to make it in contact sports, but they're separate from athleticism and talent imo.
     
  14. ZeeTV

    ZeeTV White Belt

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    Wanna see his wrestling and ground game before jumping on board
     
  15. MikeMcMann

    MikeMcMann Red Belt

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    I'll again say I think that is ignorance to think things like reflexes, balance, hand speed, foot speed, power do not matter much. If you have poorer reflexes, poorer balance, slower hand speed, slower foot speed, less power than invariably you are not going to have success against someone who also has heart and toughness but also all those other things.

    And we are just going to fundamentally disagree (and could not disagree more) if you think if you took 100 of the top A level athletes across all sports VS 100 guys who could not cut it and include the ranks of Costco tire changers and you think if you put them all in the same camps with the same training that the lesser athletic guys will do nearly as well.

    And no my last paragraph does not. My last paragraph speaks to the expectation that any individual should be able to cut it. Lesner is the perfect example. He had most of the attributes to be a great in this sport but he does not take getting hit well. that is something you will find in both A level athletes and lesser athletes. But it certainly would be more common in lesser athletes as top athletes are constantly tested for toughness in other areas.

    You keep going back, wrongly to the idea that because you cannot know at an idividual level therefore you cannot know at a group level. That is wrong.

    I can know that if you took 100 A level athletes, and 100 lesser athletes, and 100 average Joes who never played a sport in their lives that in each instance the success rate to making it as a pro fighter would drop and drop precipitously.
     
  16. storeybuckle

    storeybuckle Brown Belt

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    NFL fanboy spotted^

    PS- Fat f**k Arthur wouldn't pass any USADA testing and would be out of breath from taking the p*ss test
     
  17. MikeMcMann

    MikeMcMann Red Belt

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    M'eh I don't think you are going to get past this point but I will repeat again.

    In the general populace there are tons of people TOO how lack heart and toughness and yet if enough of them get into MMA and into top camps some will be screened up to success because despite not having the athleticism they have heart and toughness.


    So WHY you think that if enough A Level athletes got into MMA in their prime and trained similarly that we would not see similar levels or more who have heart and toughness AND the other athletic aspects is just silly.

    If you think real life outside top tier A level athletics is the best screen for toughness and heart then we are just not on the same page.

    If you compare it the guys who make it to the top of the A level sports get put to the heart and toughness test far more than the other groups do.

    (this is where you point out not all of them have it therefore thinking that has meaning here and it does not unless you say all of everyone else does)
     
  18. Final Say

    Final Say You's'll Belt

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    Brock Lesnar had a combat sports background and was successful in fighting


    I just don't buy the fact that NFL and NBA players could have success in fighting just based on their genetics. Fighting requires a lot more before it requires athleticism and the best athlete will get dominated by an unathletic nerd if the nerd has the technique and more importantly, the will to hone and then implement those techniques in a chaotic situation
     
  19. Final Say

    Final Say You's'll Belt

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    Shooting a basketball or running full speed into a runner in the NFL doesn't translate in any way to fighting technique. It's that simple. They'd beat a lot of similarly skilled fighters, but they wouldn't get far on their athleticism alone. It's just the way fighting is. It's not comparable to other sports and their athletes.
     
  20. kalabula

    kalabula Brown Belt

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    I wonder if an athletic commission would sanction him fighting a top ten guy.
     

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