Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu no Longer Effective

[rmongler]

Phr3121 already paid his side of the bet and I just boxed up his Sloth BJJ T shirt. Will be in en-route to him after work.

Thanks bud, Yair is still young and can be great but Frankie's work ethic is just on another level and there are VERY VERY VERY few people with the skill set to beat him at this point.

That's big of him; my opinion has been upgraded from 'idiot', to simply 'uninformed and has never had his views seriously challenged before'.

 

[Phr3121]

I don't put myself in situations around drunk people that mouth off and if I am around drunks mouthing off it's easy to defuse the situation.

I hear you Nate, I do the same, or at least try. That's pretty much the philosophy of all good Martial Art schools, "Walk away from a Fight." My 'fuse' and tolerance level with people has shortened since leaving the military. But I'm working on it and it is getting better. Got bullied a lot when I was younger and smaller. Specially being from another country. The fight always came to me and I lost. At least I stood my ground. Did not have a clue as how to fight. Went through years of Tae Kwon-Do, Aikido, BJJ, and no fighting. Well, there was a lot of TKD sparring and competition. I don't drink and pretty much keep to myself. Many years go by and nothing happens until about 10 months ago when some guy who started an argument with my wife came running towards me on the street and tried to punch me. Took him down with a punch-kick combination. End of story. Now, what surprised me was that I had not been in a fight in years, it was all pure reflex action. I think about 80% of the adult male population does not know how to fight. If they are drunk it makes the whole thing even easier since their reflexes are slow. I guess that is one positive thing about getting older, mental toughness and confidence. You have to have that otherwise all the techniques in the world are not going to help you when trouble comes your way. Next time I'm in Texas and near Euless, I'll stop by your school to say hello.

 

[Phr3121]

Staying away from the bullshit Aikido videos posted here, here is one of the basic Aikido techniques against a punch or knife attack. How does it relate to the topic? Aikido uses very similar joint-lock techniques that we use in BJJ except standing up.

 

[Bayonet]

But bro, I'm a suburban dude or a hipster with the money to pay for bjj and want to feel manly and to think I could survive on da streets. And shrouding mostly male comradeship, masculinity and combat/violence in eastern mysticism, Japanese peasant garb and fancy terms like honor and martial arts way and following a sensia make me feel superior to the mma fighters who are just "athletes" and "brutes" and dissembling the violent dominance aspect of it keeps me from quitting and paying. And I buy into the overemphasizing and culty way "family" is emphasized to make me not feel awkward about being a grown man giving da sensai so much adulation and power. I makes me feel so tough and awesome to know I'm ready for da streets.

Do I want to acknowledge that I can't claim Bjj's superiority or magic powers in fighting anymore because fighters cross-train and are the type of people that would have been knights or soldiers during the muscle powered era of combat and that their evil athleticism would have helped them kill me faster? Nah, instead I'll talk about da streets and want a ruleset with unlimited time that's in its own way just as unrealistic and arbitrary to real fighting as mma rules

Is my sarcasm high? Yes. But that also seems to be the type of student that schools that hyper focus on"self defense" rather than just including it in the curriculum with everything else seems to breed.

Yep.

"I'm afraid that someone might beat me up and take my money, so I'm going to sign up for this gym where guys will beat me up daily and take my money every month."

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Staying away from the bullshit Aikido videos posted here, here is one of the basic Aikido techniques against a punch or knife attack. How does it relate to the topic? Aikido uses very similar joint-lock techniques that we use in BJJ except standing up.

yeah its total bullshit. What are not bullshit are the vids I posted.

 

[Phr3121]

yeah its totally bullshit.

Thanks, you just inadvertently proved my point about BJJ in the UFC being ineffective. (not to mentioned the UFC creating rules that favor the grappler) If the joint lock system in Aikido is bullshit than the joint lock system in BJJ is also bullshit. They are both the same. Actually Aikido probably has twice the number of arm joint-locks that BJJ has. Aikido may not use leg techniques, but they make up for it with throws and twice the number of joint locks. It was also created to favor a weaker opponent.

Ju-Jutsu, Jiu-Jitsu, Judo, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Aikido, “Paraguayan Jiu-Jitsu”, “Texan Jiu-Jitsu”, etc. are all Japanese Martial Arts. There are many variations, which leads to a diversity of approaches: Grappling, throwing, trapping, joint locks, holds, striking, and kicking.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Thanks, you just inadvertently proved my point about BJJ in the UFC being ineffective. (not to mentioned the UFC creating rules that favor the grappler) If the joint lock system in Aikido is bullshit than the joint lock system in BJJ is also bullshit. They are both the same. Actually Aikido probably has twice the number of arm joint-locks that BJJ has. Aikido may not use leg techniques, but they make up for it with throws and twice the number of joint locks. It was also created to favor a weaker opponent.

Ju-Jutsu, Jiu-Jitsu, Judo, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Aikido, “Paraguayan Jiu-Jitsu”, “Texan Jiu-Jitsu”, etc. are all Japanese Martial Arts. There are many variations, which leads to a diversity of approaches: Grappling, throwing, trapping, joint locks, holds, striking, and kicking.

twisting joints in the wrong way works, what does not work is catching a punch on the air and going in circles doing akido stuff. if you could actually do it in real life, course it would, big news, the human body does not react fast enough to an uncertain strike/move to be able to actually do it in real life.

judo works wonders, wrestling works wonders, bjj works wonders, you know what all of these arts have in commun? full resistance training. Ballet, I mean aikido does not.

On rules made favoring grapplers, really? there mere fact you are providing strikers a weapon to walk into the cage just shows is not. Grapplers dont get sit downs at every round, grapplers dont get sit downs when theres nothing going on while standing, grapplers have less and less time to work on the ground, that be on top or bottom, grapplers cant just get to a clinch and hope the ref sit them down, if that wanst enough, grapplers are force to turn in to strikers somehow, other ways, getting money and TS are 10x harder, you got to be some kind of GSP type of personality to actually do it.

The only rule set you could argue is that knees to a grounded opponent are banned, which favors tds, but 100% sure grapplers will trade that for gloves. Dont know where you get this shit from, but no, the UFC is heavily favors strikers, because thats what the common fan wants to see.

 

[Thrawn33]

I think in top level MMA we're past the point of any single art being effective in and of itself. And we shouldn't be identifying MMA grappling as any of the base arts anymore.

You either Grapple well in MMA or you don't, you can't call it wrestling, BJJ or Judo ect, because MMA grapping has now become its own style, with its own rules and scoring.

I'll go back a few years and use Chuck Liddel as an example. No body would say he was a grappler, yes he wrestled in before, but nobody considered him one, yet when you look at it, he had great MMA grappling...because he didn't get taken down all that much. His sprawl and brawl style was as much good MMA grappling as it was striking. CroCop was another example.

 

[Phr3121]

twisting joints in the wrong way works, what does not work is catching a punch on the air and going in circles doing akido stuff. if you could actually do it in real life, course it would, big news, the human body does not react fast enough to an uncertain strike/move to be able to actually do it in real life.

Ok, you obviously have no Aikido experience (except the Steven Seagal movies which all sucked with the exception of the first one where he actually used Aikido with his instructors and students).

You can’t catch a punch in the air, especially if the guy pulls the punch back, you block the elbow and grab the wrist, after you move out of the way of the punch and are next to your opponent. Watch the video when the opponent aims for the stomach. Going in circles to always be next to or behind your opponent, or going in circles when you throw your opponent to the ground. Go to any Aikido Dojo and watch how they do it. Actually you just mention the key to Aikido, going in a circle, congratulations.

Judo, Wrestling, BJJ, and Aikido all have pros-and-cons. Yes, take-downs would be worthless if you could, a) Strike downward using the elbow, b) Strike the spine or the back of the head, c) Heel kick to the kidneys, d) Head butting - (UFC foul playbook).

The common UFC fan wants to see the old style Royce Gracie take-down and grappling. Like someone mentioned before, Dana White was smart enough to learn after the 5th UFC that he needed rules in place to favor the grappler and make the fights last longer.

"The UFC is heavily favors strikers, because thats what the common fan wants to see." Than you are saying what I'm saying, that BJJ, or ground grappling, is no longer effective in the UFC.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Ok, you obviously have no Aikido experience (except the Steven Seagal movies which all sucked with the exception of the first one where he actually used Aikido with his instructors and students).

You can’t catch a punch in the air, especially if the guy pulls the punch back, you block the elbow and grab the wrist, after you move out of the way of the punch and are next to your opponent. Watch the video when the opponent aims for the stomach. Going in circles to always be next to or behind your opponent, or going in circles when you throw your opponent to the ground. Go to any Aikido Dojo and watch how they do it. Actually you just mention the key to Aikido, going in a circle, congratulations.

Judo, Wrestling, BJJ, and Aikido all have pros-and-cons. Yes, take-downs would be worthless if you could, a) Strike downward using the elbow, b) Strike the spine or the back of the head, c) Heel kick to the kidneys, d) Head butting - (UFC foul playbook).

The common UFC fan wants to see the old style Royce Gracie take-down and grappling. Like someone mentioned before, Dana White was smart enough to learn after the 5th UFC that he needed rules in place to favor the grappler and make the fights last longer.

"The UFC is heavily favors strikers, because thats what the common fan wants to see." Than you are saying what I'm saying, that BJJ, or ground grappling, is no longer effective in the UFC.

Holy fuck, r you really fucking telling me aikido works, I'm not going to argue with you, your ridiculous. Go to the thread I posted, there's a vid of a aikido master, proving aikido in real life, you want to believe it works in real life? We'll have a blast write to him, he's doing q&a about his experiment.. Report back, he's a very nice person.

Nhb time were ruled by grapplers, at that time you could hit whatever part of the body you wanted, first was Royce then were colemans couturs, how on earth did you get the conclusion that the rules were made to favor grapplers when grapplers were the ones ruling? All of those rules you mention were non existent in ufc 1-9 or something... Heel kick to the kidneys by the way are refered to heel kicks from the guard, how does that benefi grapplers? Unless of course your a kid who didn't know this and your assuming heel kicks to the kidney standing...you should know this since you claim to be a gjj student, gtfo troll

We need @jack36767 here for an epic bitch slap...

 

[CFGroup]

Holy fuck, r you really fucking telling me aikido works, I'm not going to argue with you, your ridiculous. Go to the thread I posted, there's a vid of a aikido master, proving aikido in real life, you want to believe it works in real life? We'll have a blast write to him, he's doing q&a about his experiment.. Report back, he's a very nice person.

Nhb time were ruled by grapplers, at that time you could hit whatever part of the body you wanted, first was Royce then were colemans couturs, how on earth did you get the conclusion that the rules were made to favor grapplers when grapplers were the ones ruling? All of those rules you mention were non existent in ufc 1-9 or something... Heel kick to the kidneys by the way are refered to heel kicks from the guard, how does that benefi grapplers? Unless of course your a kid who didn't know this and your assuming heel kicks to the kidney standing...you should know this since you claim to be a gjj student, gtfo troll

We need @jack36767 here for an epic bitch slap...

LOL!

 

[jack36767]

Ok, you obviously have no Aikido experience (except the Steven Seagal movies which all sucked with the exception of the first one where he actually used Aikido with his instructors and students).

You can’t catch a punch in the air, especially if the guy pulls the punch back, you block the elbow and grab the wrist, after you move out of the way of the punch and are next to your opponent. Watch the video when the opponent aims for the stomach. Going in circles to always be next to or behind your opponent, or going in circles when you throw your opponent to the ground. Go to any Aikido Dojo and watch how they do it. Actually you just mention the key to Aikido, going in a circle, congratulations.

Judo, Wrestling, BJJ, and Aikido all have pros-and-cons. Yes, take-downs would be worthless if you could, a) Strike downward using the elbow, b) Strike the spine or the back of the head, c) Heel kick to the kidneys, d) Head butting - (UFC foul playbook).

The common UFC fan wants to see the old style Royce Gracie take-down and grappling. Like someone mentioned before, Dana White was smart enough to learn after the 5th UFC that he needed rules in place to favor the grappler and make the fights last longer.

"The UFC is heavily favors strikers, because thats what the common fan wants to see." Than you are saying what I'm saying, that BJJ, or ground grappling, is no longer effective in the UFC.

Will the "traditional" martial arts and AKIDO people please PUT SOME FUCKING VIDEO UP of this shit working on a TRAINED FIGHTER at FULL FUCKING SPEED IN A LIVE SITUATION. Not some hearsay, not some pedantic quibbling, not some "oh this isn't sufficient for the street. There are PLENTY of mma fighter willing to take on an "aikido" master in full live go on video dose street rules. Jesus Christ

You fucking stupid niave thin skinned passive agressive bitch who's obviously never trained in a legitimate gym with more than one or two people as "good" as you. And will actually quote people if they're nice to the poor lil innocent victim you are. Takedowns would still work without the fouls and I'll double leg through your aikido bullshit with or without fouls being enforced. You are as niave and dumb and fundamental about bullshit as a Pentecostal who believes in flat earth and that it's 4000 years old

 

[CFGroup]

How is judo better than BJJ because it leads to more injuries but TKD is preferable to MT because it is easy on the body?

I notice you didn't mention getting injured in TKD, instead you mention break falls and concussions from judo . Well I breakfall in BJJ too and get thrown in local bjj tournaments. The two really aren't that different in terms of risk of injury or pain.

Jeez man I don't know how much more clearly I can put it. I prefer

THE TACTICS OF STANDING OFF AT DISTANCE....

My experience with MT is they were much better at pressure fighting, but with TKD mobility combined with MT and boxing hand skill the ability to maintain distance becomes an advantage. It's just adding dimensions of tactics that the opponent isn't prepared for.

That's why you see a lot of those MT vs TKD You Tube clips where MT corners the TKD guy with pressure, stuffs his ability to gauge distance and dominates. Usually in those clips the TKD guys don't use the added tactics of attacking the legs, there skillset is based on the body and head. Adjusting your perspective to the lower body targets if you are and experienced kicker leaves you tons of high power damage to inflict. But as with everything you have to train to include it in your arsenal.

I don't think I mentioned concussions from Judo. I still have nerve damage in my neck from some wonky breakfalls in the last days of trying to train full resistance before realizing I needed to figure out what was happening to my hip.

I have had concussions and the the worst bone bruises that lasted months from TKD...

Shit it's 6:45 I gotta jet off on a 20 miler...

I'm always down with answering legit questions and misunderstandings. But if I get the knuckle head MMA troll U get the horns, LOL!

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Will the "traditional" martial arts and AKIDO people please PUT SOME FUCKING VIDEO UP of this shit working on a TRAINED FIGHTER at FULL FUCKING SPEED IN A LIVE SITUATION. Not some hearsay, not some pedantic quibbling, not some "oh this isn't sufficient for the street. There are PLENTY of mma fighter willing to take on an "aikido" master in full live go on video dose street rules. Jesus Christ

You fucking stupid niave thin skinned passive agressive bitch who's obviously never trained in a legitimate gym with more than one or two people as "good" as you. And will actually quote people if they're nice to the poor lil innocent victim you are. Takedowns would still work without the fouls and I'll double leg through your aikido bullshit with or without fouls being enforced. You are as niave and dumb and fundamental about bullshit as a Pentecostal who believes in flat earth and that it's 4000 years old

That was a little too much though lol....

 

[jack36767]

That was a little too much though lol....

Nope I actually was restrained. He's flipped flopped, moved the goal posts and insulted or been passive aggressive enough. For someone so uneducated he would make a great academic

 

[Thycidides]

Will the "traditional" martial arts and AKIDO people please PUT SOME FUCKING VIDEO UP of this shit working on a TRAINED FIGHTER at FULL FUCKING SPEED IN A LIVE SITUATION. Not some hearsay, not some pedantic quibbling,

Shinya Aoki succeed in breaking his opponents shoulder with waka gateme. It's the one aikido move that has been done in mma. A couple of the grip breaks and wrist locks are applicable in the gI too.

 

[SummerStriker]

Will the "traditional" martial arts and AKIDO people please PUT SOME FUCKING VIDEO UP of this shit working on a TRAINED FIGHTER at FULL FUCKING SPEED IN A LIVE SITUATION.

Edit: Sorry, my video files aren't labled. I know there is an Aikido man fighting in here somewhere.

 

[Bayonet]

Shinya Aoki succeed in breaking his opponents shoulder with waka gateme. It's the one aikido move that has been done in mma. A couple of the grip breaks and wrist locks are applicable in the gI too.

Waki gatame was also heavily trained and used in Judo competition. I'd hazard to guess that the guys pulling it off against resisting grapplers picked it up from Judo, Catch, or one of the other fighting arts where you actually fight people.

 

[SummerStriker]

Waki gatame was also heavily trained and used in Judo competition. I'd hazard to guess that the guys pulling it off against resisting grapplers picked it up from Judo, Catch, or one of the other fighting arts where you actually fight people.

I have a takedown I get a lot from Silat called the "Pudakapala." I ended up needing to use a lot of force to get it to work on some people, and it never looked quite like the Silat drill. Anyway, I felt pretty clever, being able to use sort of Silat on people while sparring.

In BJJ, I found out it was a "cement mixer" and everyone knew how to do it.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Shinya Aoki succeed in breaking his opponents shoulder with waka gateme. It's the one aikido move that has been done in mma. A couple of the grip breaks and wrist locks are applicable in the gI too.

waki gatame is basically an standing armlock. Agin, twing joints the wrong way works, I dont think anyone would disagree with it, what most people have problems is with the whole catching stuff on the air and doing the seagal stuff. It is just not going to happen.

Also, shinya is a judoka as well, I would venture to say he got that from his judo training.