Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu no Longer Effective

[Bayonet]

I'm curious do you think move like waka gatame would be a lot more prevalent if more grappling competitors practiced it?

Yes. It popped up a lot in Judo until it got banned, and I've trained in clubs where guys still do standing armbars in randori; but without as much drive to finish. It's a very effective technique in the right circumstances, but you have to balance that against the high risk of injury.

If you routinely train something live, there's no reason why you can't pull it off in competition every now and again.

 

[Bayonet]

A few, U.S. Army, last one was a tour with the 490th Civil Affairs Battalion in Iraq. My first MOS was 11B (Infantry) and later 38A (Civil Affairs). I enlisted right out of college as a private and later went through OCS for a Commission as a 2nd Lieutenant in the Infantry.

Just wondering. I was infantry myself. Not American, though.

 

[Thycidides]

Holy shit I did NOT!

WTF?

This is what I wrote!

"Send 10 guys running at speed against a sport fighter and he's overwhelmed after the 2nd guy. That's the conditions that combat systems are made for.

Not that they train with that intent for the most part, but you have to identify the TC(Theater of Combat) to criticize the system."

How does that identify Aikido?

IT DOESN'T!

....

Well what the hell where you talking about ? Which "combat system" where you referring to? The USA military sponsors football and has military academy cadets play the game because it is aggressive and requires team work. What type of game should they play instead?

Your posts are hard to read to be honest and I'm not sure if your are sincere or just here to argue for the sake of arguing.

 

[CFGroup]

A few, U.S. Army, last one was a tour with the 490th Civil Affairs Battalion in Iraq. My first MOS was 11B (Infantry) and later 38A (Civil Affairs). I enlisted right out of college as a private and later went through OCS for a Commission as a 2nd Lieutenant in the Infantry.

Trained with a ton of Vets over the years. Great work ethic and perspective.

When did you get your DD214 or are you still active? Forgot if you'd said.

Whoa there...This is way above the heads of most of these clowns!

Like trying to herd cats or teach Chimps to read....

My favorite tactical mind game out in public is...well not really...But I'm always thinking is "Spot the hitman"

The right size, the right age range to handle the physical shit and as that clip points out, the right totally bland and forgettable looking. Those who fit the list get an extra scrutiny of the eye's.

Every bush with a tiger hiding in it has a little tail hanging out you can try to spot.

I suggest to test MMA for real have them post their address and give lets say a month to track them and take them down at random. They always scoff at the idea, but to bring SD into the safety of the setting of their choosing automatically gives them the advantage.

Action always beats reaction.

The true test of MA and SD is how you react in an ambush.

All else is glorified school yard scuffles with at will participants.

 

[rmongler]

Man is there anything worse than when two narcissists get together and start blowing smoke up each others asses in a feedback loop?

Total cringe.

 

[jack36767]

The funny thing about this, and the precise problem i've noticed over the years, is that the sort of people who bang on the most about things like 'smarts trumping strength'... tend to also have some of the dumbest ideas around wrt actually smart strategies in combat sports. Tend to be clueless and uninteresting when actually trying to have an actual conversation with them about actual fighters in actual competition; their games, their prospects, their match-ups.

You can see that sort of hipsterish attitude fairly often in this corner of the martial art world too, especially in bjj. The subject has come up in the past in other threads as well.

What is it really i wonder? A defense mechanism? A cry for help? Signal hacking so as to compete for status without actually having any actual 'goods' to signal?

As of late i tend to lean more and more towards option 3.

Basically the essential problem is that people (pseuds) big on the whole 'brain vs brawn' false dichotomy, the ones who say things like 'technique should over come '''attributes'''', need to have some level of blindness or incomprehension of reality, so as to dispute the effectiveness of those self-same 'attributes', and hence their value in their minds. Such people tend to also be, well, dumb. Hence, the irony of their posturing.

Do you think it's a byproduct of the decline in masculinity or at least the acceptance of it or that weasel attitude has always been there

 

[Phr3121]

No lol, I was working, is that ok? Or should I just become a parasite or say any job that doesn't pay 80,000 is "beneath" me. I knew my response instantly....

Ok Jack, I’ll briefly address what you wrote and move on to the original topic which we did in fact completely move away from. This whole thing got started with your first flaming and insulting post to me on this thread. Not sure why you need to be insulting when discussing a topic. Something both you and BJJ_Rage tend to do a lot. Man, nobody likes that shit and it is really immature. Funny thing is you get just as upset when I fire back with an insult.

There is nothing wrong with being a teacher, it is an honorable profession. I still don’t know what you teach. Society would not function without plumbers, trash collectors, mailmen, etc. All legal and honest professions. What I can’t stand is people and the millions they make in professional sports, movies, and broadcasting. All three are worthless profession in my book. C’mon, Megyn Kelly making $20,000,000 a year to talk on TV. My grandmother could do that job, actually a monkey could do that job. 50 years ago she would be making maybe $50,000 a year. In that sense what you do is clearly more important and with a shitty salary. There is nothing wrong with growing up in a trailer park either. Have a few friends that grew up there and turned out fine. Have kids who grow up in wealthy families and are now in jail.

You keep bringing up moving ‘goal posts’. Not really sure what you mean. I think I have addressed my 1st post over the 14 pages of this thread. Yes, guilty of getting off topic with the military thing, but I think that there are very few 14 page threads that will not get off topic somewhere. Well, enough of that…

Back to MMA or a Martial Art. When Bruce Lee came out in “Enter the Dragon” in 1973, the hip thing to do was Kung-Fu. When “The Karate Kid” came out in 1984, the hip thing to do was Tae Kwon-Do. Steven Seagal came out with “Above the Law” in 1988 and the hip thing to “try” to do was Aikido, too hard. Royce Gracie wins UFC 01 in 1994 and the hip thing to do is Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. That was the only non Hollywood driven art to have a ‘craze’ over it. Back to my 1st post, Yair should not have fought Frank, they are not in the same league, again, not sure why the UFC paired them up. Now everyone is like: “Man, Yair had the shit punched out of him, Tae Kwon-Do must really suck!” Give Yair someone of his league to fight and let us see the results.

…and here we see the limitations of BJJ, or moving beyond what the sport (rules) allows:

 

[jack36767]

Ok Jack, I’ll briefly address what you wrote and move on to the original topic which we did in fact completely move away from. This whole thing got started with your first flaming and insulting post to me on this thread. Not sure why you need to be insulting when discussing a topic. Something both you and BJJ_Rage tend to do a lot. Man, nobody likes that shit and it is really immature. Funny thing is you get just as upset when I fire back with an insult.

There is nothing wrong with being a teacher, it is an honorable profession. I still don’t know what you teach. Society would not function without plumbers, trash collectors, mailmen, etc. All legal and honest professions. What I can’t stand is people and the millions they make in professional sports, movies, and broadcasting. All three are worthless profession in my book. C’mon, Megyn Kelly making $20,000,000 a year to talk on TV. My grandmother could do that job, actually a monkey could do that job. 50 years ago she would be making maybe $50,000 a year. In that sense what you do is clearly more important and with a shitty salary. There is nothing wrong with growing up in a trailer park either. Have a few friends that grew up there and turned out fine. Have kids who grow up in wealthy families and are now in jail.

You keep bringing up moving ‘goal posts’. Not really sure what you mean. I think I have addressed my 1st post over the 14 pages of this thread. Yes, guilty of getting off topic with the military thing, but I think that there are very few 14 page threads that will not get off topic somewhere. Well, enough of that…

Back to MMA or a Martial Art. When Bruce Lee came out in “Enter the Dragon” in 1973, the hip thing to do was Kung-Fu. When “The Karate Kid” came out in 1984, the hip thing to do was Tae Kwon-Do. Steven Seagal came out with “Above the Law” in 1988 and the hip thing to “try” to do was Aikido, too hard. Royce Gracie wins UFC 01 in 1994 and the hip thing to do is Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. That was the only non Hollywood driven art to have a ‘craze’ over it. Back to my 1st post, Yair should not have fought Frank, they are not in the same league, again, not sure why the UFC paired them up. Now everyone is like: “Man, Yair had the shit punched out of him, Tae Kwon-Do must really suck!” Give Yair someone of his league to fight and let us see the results.

…and here we see the limitations of BJJ, or moving beyond what the art (rules) allows:

You don't seem to understand everyone who has trained a long time understands these "limitations" that's what started the arguments in the first place

And I want to teach history and geography that's what my degree is but might add elementary education after subbing. I can handle second grade and above. First grade and kindergarten.. nah

 

[Phr3121]

I think most people here where not even born when Lee was at the height of his career. To most he is just a joke, and I still don't know why that is. Royce Gracie would never, ever, be able to touch Lee on a match. Most people just can't accept that. Well folks also said at one time that the earth was flat and the sun circled around it...

 

[jack36767]

Ok Jack, I’ll briefly address what you wrote and move on to the original topic which we did in fact completely move away from. This whole thing got started with your first flaming and insulting post to me on this thread. Not sure why you need to be insulting when discussing a topic. Something both you and BJJ_Rage tend to do a lot. Man, nobody likes that shit and it is really immature. Funny thing is you get just as upset when I fire back with an insult.

There is nothing wrong with being a teacher, it is an honorable profession. I still don’t know what you teach. Society would not function without plumbers, trash collectors, mailmen, etc. All legal and honest professions. What I can’t stand is people and the millions they make in professional sports, movies, and broadcasting. All three are worthless profession in my book. C’mon, Megyn Kelly making $20,000,000 a year to talk on TV. My grandmother could do that job, actually a monkey could do that job. 50 years ago she would be making maybe $50,000 a year. In that sense what you do is clearly more important and with a shitty salary. There is nothing wrong with growing up in a trailer park either. Have a few friends that grew up there and turned out fine. Have kids who grow up in wealthy families and are now in jail.

You keep bringing up moving ‘goal posts’. Not really sure what you mean. I think I have addressed my 1st post over the 14 pages of this thread. Yes, guilty of getting off topic with the military thing, but I think that there are very few 14 page threads that will not get off topic somewhere. Well, enough of that…

Back to MMA or a Martial Art. When Bruce Lee came out in “Enter the Dragon” in 1973, the hip thing to do was Kung-Fu. When “The Karate Kid” came out in 1984, the hip thing to do was Tae Kwon-Do. Steven Seagal came out with “Above the Law” in 1988 and the hip thing to “try” to do was Aikido, too hard. Royce Gracie wins UFC 01 in 1994 and the hip thing to do is Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. That was the only non Hollywood driven art to have a ‘craze’ over it. Back to my 1st post, Yair should not have fought Frank, they are not in the same league, again, not sure why the UFC paired them up. Now everyone is like: “Man, Yair had the shit punched out of him, Tae Kwon-Do must really suck!” Give Yair someone of his league to fight and let us see the results.

…and here we see the limitations of BJJ, or moving beyond what the art (rules) allows:

You don't seem to understand everyone who has trained a long time understands these "limitations" that's what started the arguments in the first place

People like Rogan who have actually done high level TKD have discussed the deficiencies of TKD AT Length.. something I addressed earlier that which you ignored and latched onto the military thing. Also the landscape of martial arts in the US is completely different with the advent of mma. Correlating that with movies creating mcdojo dads is like me comparing working security to you going overseas. Technically could be related but not really. And you also keep ignoring the 80/20 rule. For the amount of time the average person has, wrestling, bjj and boxing will get far more immediate and relevant results for self defense and fighting than anything else. Additionally while TKD, Karate, and all the other arts in mma (which is the closest consistent thing to a real fight despite the whining of the culty self defense people) have either the majority of their techniques or at least a few a distinct ones or principles shown to be effective. Akido has NOTHING giving it credence except bullshit demonstrations


And I want to teach history and geography that's what my degree is but might add elementary education after subbing. I can handle second grade and above. First grade and kindergarten.. nah

 

[jack36767]

I think most people here where not even born when Lee was at the height of his career. To most he is just a joke, and I still don't know why that is. Royce Gracie would never, ever, be able to touch Lee on a match. Most people just can't accept that. Well folks also said at one time that the earth was flat and the sun circled around it...

You seriously are comparing an actor to an actual fighter who fought on video with no holds barred rule..

 

[Bayonet]

Man is there anything worse than when two narcissists get together and start blowing smoke up each others asses in a feedback loop?

Total cringe.

It's starting to sound like the guys who hang out in the gun store spouting facebook 'warrior wisdom' posts at each other all day, honestly.

 

[Crotalis]

Funny thing about Bruce Lee ... He himself admitted that when Gene Lebell and Wally Jay introduced him to grappling they bounced him around the room like it was nothing and he decided that grappling was a vital part of any martial artists arsenal that day ...

@Bayonet -

That's the perfect description! <45>

 

[Phr3121]

He himself admitted that when Gene Lebell and Wally Jay introduced him to grappling they bounced him around the room like it was nothing and he decided that grappling was a vital part of any martial artists arsenal that day ...

True, and in return he would teach them Kung-Fu. Though he didn't fight much, it wasn't like he was punching in the air. He was incredibly good at blending martial arts. Lee learned grappling and was really good at blending it together, making him a formidable opponent on his feet or on the ground. I'll get back to this topic when I have a little more time...

 

[Phr3121]

Well, my small Dell laptop ‘tap-out’ after 7 years, so I had to go out and get a new one. Dell is a much better product than Sony. Sony only lasted 3 years.

Back to Bruce Lee, his interest in anatomy and physiology is well documented, so he knew where it could hurt. The tournaments Norris did (that Lee didn't do) would disqualify someone if they hit too hard. They were more like chess matches and were not representative of an actual fight.

His reflexes were faster than a jaguar hopped up on methamphetamines. He was in incredible shape. He could knock a large man over from an inch without cocking his fist back.

Though he didn't fight much, he did sometimes. He beat the boxing champion of his high school without being a boxer. He also destroyed a black belt Karate instructor on a YMCA handball court in 11 seconds. Former student Skip Ellsworth says he "could end any physical confrontation within a few seconds."

If any person can execute a good technique, whether they are considered a fighter or not, it’s going to cause some damage if it lands. Lee practiced techniques specifically for combat, jabs to the eyes, foot stomps, etc. He wasn’t just a basic punch-kick guy. In my opinion he would have destroyed most of his opponents, and this is 138 pound man.

 

[Phr3121]

'CFGroup' I think you'll get a kick out of this Tae Kwon-Do video...

 

[HangNail]

Though he didn't fight much, he did sometimes. He beat the boxing champion of his high school without being a boxer. He also destroyed a black belt Karate instructor on a YMCA handball court in 11 seconds. Former student Skip Ellsworth says he "could end any physical confrontation within a few seconds."

Do you have a link to any source which can verify this claim?

 

[Phr3121]

Do you have a link to any source which can verify this claim?

Yes sir:
https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilear...that_in_1962_bruce_lee_landed_15_punches_and/

The beauty of Kung-Fu is that you can defend and strike simultaneously.

 

[HangNail]

Yes sir:
https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilear...that_in_1962_bruce_lee_landed_15_punches_and/

The beauty of Kung-Fu is that you can defend and strike simultaneously.

Well that link provided little to no information on Lee's boxing success in high school, but I did manage to dig up the following book which states his success in a 1958 boxing tournament between 12 schools in Hong Kong.

https://books.google.com/books?id=y...#v=onepage&q=brother edward bruce lee&f=false

 

[HangNail]

However, I will say that the book I've provides isn't exactly supreme proof of any of these claims. I'm not sure how Bruce Thomas, a Wing Chun practitioner under a student of Lee's, is supposed to have the firsthand knowledge of what his idol did when he was in high school. I would say that the issue requires a bit more looking into for the sake of verification, but I don't really care enough to read through the entire book and cross examine it with any different existing accounts.