WW evolution from late 00s to now

[fortheo]

I don't think you are giving enough credit to Alves, Fitch and Koscheck of 2008, they would beat some guys in the top 10 in the 2020 rankings IMO. Karo, Sanchez, Hughes and Serra might be able to pull off an upset over someone in the 2020 top 10 rankings but I wouldn't favor them like I would Alves, Fitch and Koscheck against some of the top 10 guys of today though.

Honestly, prime kosheck matches up well with Usman and prime Fitch matches up well with Colby.

I don't think the evolution in this division is nearly as great as TS implies.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Honestly, prime kosheck matches up well with Usman and prime Fitch matches up well with Colby.

I don't think the evolution in this division is nearly as great as TS implies.

Agreed. Kosckeck would give Usman a hard time with takedowns and the clinch and Koscheck has a clear edge in power, striking seems a similar level though maybe advantage Usman in technique. I think Fitch and Colby is an interesting match up as the have a similar grinding style though I give Fitch the advantage in the clinch and Colby in striking I could see either grinding the other down to a decision prime vs prime depending on who had the better camp/night.

 

[PlasticFishBowl]

Even Dan Hardy got a title shot in GSPs weak era. Matt Serra got a title shot after a split decision win after two loses

Dude, Masvidal just got a title shot off a win over Nate Diaz after being a 50/50 fighter for like a decade now.

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

The current top 10 is obviously better than those 2008 rankings, but GSP is likely still the champ in this era, Fitch probably top 5.

 

[bjpenngoat]

The current top 10 is obviously better than those 2008 rankings, but GSP is likely still the champ in this era, Fitch probably top 5.

I'm a fan of Jon Fitch and he's had an amazing career after the ufc. He's the only guy from that era with a winning record. He is over looked and under appreciated.
I don't see Georges getting by usman or colby.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

Look at how the sport has evolved especially this particular division. Not one of these guys would be even top 10 today aside gsp whom I would put 5 or 6 today. The athletes are just bigger Stronger and better.

Honestly twood today is not even top 20 he doesn't belong on the top 10 list after the way he has lost his last 3 fights. Other than him, its a no brained. Vincent luque would run thru that entire 2008 roster maybe even including gsp and he's 11th including the champ.
So if usman runs thru the division he has to be considered ww goat just based on level of comp.

1: Georges St. Pierre
2: Thiago Alves
3: Jon Fitch
4: Matt Hughes
5: Josh Koscheck
6: Diego Sanchez
7: Karo Parisyan
8: Chris Wilson
9: Matt Serra
10: Akihiro Gono

2020 rankings

Champion Kamaru Usman 17-1
1 Colby Covington 16–2
2 Gilbert Burns 19–3
3 Leon Edwards 18–3
4 Jorge Masvidal 35–14
5 Stephen Thompson 15–4–1
6 Tyron Woodley 19–6–1
7 Demian Maia 28–10
8 Michael Chiesa 17–4
9 Neil Magny 24–7
10 Vicente Luque 19-7-1

Greatness is usually based on compared to the best of your time. The reason for this is simple - science and technology improves. However, if it doesn't, then anyone with a BSc in physics is a greater physicist than Issac Newton (who professional physicists say is tied for Einstein with being the greatest physicist ever), because they can solve physics problems Newton couldn't even have gotten started on. And in fact, most physics Phd's know more physics than Einstein, so in absolute terms are better physicists than him. However, just about every physicist you'll ever meet will say Newton and Einstein were the two greatest.

How about track and field? Jesse Owen's best times are regularly beaten by high school students today -- and yet Owens is still considered one of the greatest sprinters every (Usain is number one).

Take a look at the training and skills available when Hughes was starting, and compare it to what was available for say Usman. If Usman wasn't better in an absolute sense then it'd be a strong mark against him, because better training is supposed to make you better. However, it doesn't make you greater -- greater is a measure of what you did against the best of your time.

 

[TheMessiah]

Dude, Masvidal just got a title shot off a win over Nate Diaz after being a 50/50 fighter for like a decade now.

On a winning streak, with all finishes

 

[Blond]

If anything, WW is the least evolved division - the top 10 is still full of your standard wrestle-boxers. Perhaps they're a little bigger now

 

[20falarVerdades]

The division is a lot more technical now. It would be naive to think USADA is not a factor. The WW elite back then heavily relied on athleticism and strength to win fights, whereas we have much more skilled guys now.

 

[bjpenngoat]

If anything, WW is the least evolved division - the top 10 is still full of your standard wrestle-boxers. Perhaps they're a little bigger now

What?

Burns
Wonderboy
Luque
Leon
Masvidal
Chiesa
Maia

None of those are wrestle boxers.

 

[WorldWarIV]

Every day. Every. Single. Day. They have to shit on GSP. And then they want to pretend they are rational. Jesus.

 

[Dr brakestick]

Imagine thinking any of this is real. Gotta make shit up entirely cause you can’t even troll right

As a Brit from Dans hometown me and a mate stayed up to watch and cheer Dan on. To say he went life and death with GSP is ridiculous.... I just watched the whole fight and after the first round thought Dan has nothing for him and felt sad.

 

[Pilo]

I agree 100 on Kos and Fitch, they were well rounded, and at their peak a tough matchup for anyone, any era for sure.. But wouldn't you agree that guys like Colby, Usman, and Wonderboy are a little bit better versions of Kos, fitch, and Alves. Better training, better cardio by far, all around just better???
You guys honestly think GSP would run through Colby, Usman, and WB? Interesting! I don't know who I would pick in those hypothetical matchups, but no one is getting dominated, those are tough matchups..

To speak Donald Rumsfeld's language, anyone trying to make any claim in this thread is letting known knowns outweigh known unknowns in their "analysis". It is biased by what they've seen of Fitch, Kos', and Alves' careers, and fails to take into account what we all know we haven't yet seen of Usman, Colby and Wonderboy's careers...and that's the decline of their careers/the part of their career occurring past their prime. And then there's the unknown unknowns, i.e. maybe one of them will have an ugly loss very soon, maybe one of them, looking back will be widely considered to have been overrated, anything you can or cannot possibly think of regarding any of these fighters, etc...

Anyone going out on a leg implying even the slightest degree of certainty to their claims in a thread like this just can't be taken seriously.

This thread relies on an apples and oranges type of comparison. Irrelevant and barely small-talk worthy.

 

[CerebralKnievel]

Man, give it up. You've been hating on GSP for more than a decade. Get a hobby. Go outside. Make a friend.

Presumptuous of you to speak as though its concluded that he has any desire to take time away from his constant masturbation to BJ Penn posters.

 

[CerebralKnievel]

I'm a fan of Jon Fitch and he's had an amazing career after the ufc. He's the only guy from that era with a winning record. He is over looked and under appreciated.
I don't see Georges getting by usman or colby.

Literally every fighter on that top 10 list from the GSP era has a winning record.

 

[Patman]

Even Dan Hardy got a title shot in GSPs weak era. Matt Serra got a title shot after a split decision win after two loses

GSP cleaned out the division. He beat everybody either in their first match or in a rematch. When you clean out a division the lower ranked guys start getting title shots.

When titles change hand every 3 or 4 fights then you get fresh title fights with usually guys ranked no lower than 3.

A dominant champ isn’t going to be fed the same 2 or 3 guys over and over again.

Did we need to see Fedor beat Nog 5 times? Or Anderson with Rich?

 

[StoneColdSteveAustin]

GSP would beat the breaks off Covington and Usman is so slow and plodding prime GSP would beat him up everywhere.

he’d jab his face off and mix in takedowns. He’d win every round against slow Usman

 

[bjpenngoat]

Literally every fighter on that top 10 list from the GSP era has a winning record.

Not after fighting Georges. They all went on to either mediocrity or losing records. Look it up. The reason being they had to fight really good fighters after fighting for a title.and showed their true abilities by losing a lot.

 

[Blayt7hh]

Even Dan Hardy got a title shot in GSPs weak era. Matt Serra got a title shot after a split decision win after two loses

You can try to write silly bullshit like this and convince new fans his era was weak, but anyone who followed the sport then knows you’re being a jackass.

man I can’t believe that even after all this time salty GSP fans are still coming around like the TS trying to undermine GSP and his legacy

 

[bjpenngoat]

GSP cleaned out the division. He beat everybody either in their first match or in a rematch. When you clean out a division the lower ranked guys start getting title shots.

When titles change hand every 3 or 4 fights then you get fresh title fights with usually guys ranked no lower than 3.

A dominant champ isn’t going to be fed the same 2 or 3 guys over and over again.

Did we need to see Fedor beat Nog 5 times? Or Anderson with Rich?

Fair point but look who he was fighting and his inability to finish Dan hardy, Carlos condit, thiago alves and josh kos check when everyone else was finishing these guys shortly after. It shows that the talent pool was terrible leading to a title fight and that the title holder couldn't get done what guys way down the leader rung were able to do.