WW evolution from late 00s to now

bjpenngoat said:
Look at how the sport has evolved especially this particular division. Not one of these guys would be even top 10 today aside gsp whom I would put 5 or 6 today. The athletes are just bigger Stronger and better.

Honestly twood today is not even top 20 he doesn't belong on the top 10 list after the way he has lost his last 3 fights. Other than him, its a no brained. Vincent luque would run thru that entire 2008 roster maybe even including gsp and he's 11th including the champ.
So if usman runs thru the division he has to be considered ww goat just based on level of comp.

1: Georges St. Pierre
2: Thiago Alves
3: Jon Fitch
4: Matt Hughes
5: Josh Koscheck
6: Diego Sanchez
7: Karo Parisyan
8: Chris Wilson
9: Matt Serra
10: Akihiro Gono

2020 rankings

Champion Kamaru Usman 17-1
1 Colby Covington 16–2
2 Gilbert Burns 19–3
3 Leon Edwards 18–3
4 Jorge Masvidal 35–14
5 Stephen Thompson 15–4–1
6 Tyron Woodley 19–6–1
7 Demian Maia 28–10
8 Michael Chiesa 17–4
9 Neil Magny 24–7
10 Vicente Luque 19-7-1
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I don't think you are giving enough credit to Alves, Fitch and Koscheck of 2008, they would beat some guys in the top 10 in the 2020 rankings IMO. Karo, Sanchez, Hughes and Serra might be able to pull off an upset over someone in the 2020 top 10 rankings but I wouldn't favor them like I would Alves, Fitch and Koscheck against some of the top 10 guys of today though.
 
Goat St Pierre said:
Im only defending GSP when others try to bring down his achievements. He's clearly the goat because he didn't do steroids and also has more impressive wins than guys like Khabib
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He's not clearly the GOAT, because that's a title given out of opinion, and sorry to say but your opinion don't mean anything to me, because you are obviously in love with GSP and no one can say anything bad about him or put him in a mythical matchup and do a breakdown.. GSP does good in any era but get off his D.. You look ridiculous
 
Ares Black said:
Lol. GSP would dominate the division.
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I'd also mention that people immediately dismissing Koscheck, Alves or Fitch either weren't watching MMA at that time or are blinded by whatever is current and lack the ability to reason objectively. Fitch from that age is definitely capable of smothering Wonderboy, Edwards, and plenty more of the top 10.

Koscheck is still one of the best adapted wrestlers to have competed in MMA.
 
Wand claude van-damme said:
He's not clearly the GOAT, because that's a title given out of opinion, and sorry to say but your opinion don't mean anything to me, because you are obviously in love with GSP and no one can say anything bad about him or put him in a mythical matchup and do a breakdown.. GSP does good in any era but get off his D.. You look ridiculous
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So who's the goat then? Roiders? Or guys with weaker resumes? GSP didn't roid and has a better resume than any other Goat candidate
 
gondo said:
If we’re judging divisions from a different era by the names that filled out the top 10 then that means Silva is a fucking bum as MW was weak until a few short years ago.
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Difference is that Anderson beat prime franklin and prime he do stopping all 3 fights violently and finished every fight aside from maia and leites. Maia is an all time.great and way way better than 99% of gsp's resume. Gsp never finished a fight. He went life and death with Dan hardy and josh koscheck whom everyone finished.
 
CerebralKnievel said:
I'd also mention that people immediately dismissing Koscheck, Alves or Fitch either weren't watching MMA at that time or are blinded by whatever is current and lack the ability to reason objectively. Fitch from that age is definitely capable of smothering Wonderboy, Edwards, and plenty more of the top 10.

Koscheck is still one of the best adapted wrestlers to have competed in MMA.
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This, anyone saying Alves, Fitch and Koscheck from 2008 wouldn't stand a chance against the top 10 of today wasn't watching MMA in 2008.

2008 Alves for instance would be a terrible match up for 2020 Woodley and 2020 Maia as well.
 
bjpenngoat said:
Thiago alves at #2 says it all right there. He beat karo, aging hughes and koscheck whom everyone beat and he was the #2 guy. After beating inferior comp.he went on to compile a 6-10 record and the Seth bascinzki Dec was an absolute robbery thiago got worked that fight and Jordan mein was beating the living shit out of him before Jordan literally retired mid fight. Props to alves he is very tough and had some terrible injuries but he isn't a high level fighter. He's just a good dude who had an average career. If that was the #2 guy then just imagine what the wws today would.have done back then. The sport really evolved in this division.
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You conveniently ignore all context, and ultimately this boils down to a typical sherdog dismissal of all merits. Hughes wasn't far removed from the title at that time, and Koscheck hadn't been beaten by "everyone" at that time. If you don't acknowledge Koscheck as one of the top MMA wrestlers, I don't believe your analytical ability is really anything noteworthy.

Then there is the road of significant injuries along which that 6-10 run limped, for Alves. You can even identify it today by looking at the time gaps in his record, if you weren't actually wqtching at that time and/or aren't aware of those events.
 
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Oddly enough Rory was title contender level at both times. Talk about evolution
 
How do we know Georges didn't roid? Just because he never popped doesn't mean he didn't. iirc mark mcgwire never tested positive he came out at 47 years old and admitted what we all knew. Yet during his career and leading until his admission of use he was castigated and guilt was assumed.

I'll.come.out and say I don't believe Georges juiced I think he is a freak of nature but its not out of possibility. The notion we dismiss that he my have and that he is a bastion of cleaning up the sport is irresponsible.
 
It cracks me up when people make these hypothetical matchups between "Prime fighter A" who was in his prime 10-12 years ago and a guy in the current top 5.

First, it's fucking irrelevant, because the match just won't happen. So let's speculate, argue back and forth and butt heads about something that'll remain unanswered. Super cool idea.

Second, taking a crystallized moment in time (such as the top 10 at WW in the original post of this thread) to imply that this was a weak division, then discredit everyone who's on that list and their respective wins to make a pointless comparison with the current top 10 of that same division is downright unfair...when it's been 10 years since Colby and Kamaru were on their decline and each lost three in a row because they were past their prime, it'll be easy to do exactly what TS is doing here.

Comparing a top 10 from 12-15 years ago with the current top 10 is apples and oranges. You can look back at the footage and make a shit on of judgements and conclusions on one, but you can't do the same with the other.

TS is getting pathetically creative in trying to subtly make GSP hating threads. At least try not to mKe this many intellectual shortcuts next time.
 
NoBiasJustMMA said:
This, anyone saying Alves, Fitch and Koscheck from 2008 wouldn't stand a chance against the top 10 of today wasn't watching MMA in 2008.

2008 Alves for instance would be a terrible match up for 2020 Woodley and 2020 Maia as well.
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I agree 100 on Kos and Fitch, they were well rounded, and at their peak a tough matchup for anyone, any era for sure.. But wouldn't you agree that guys like Colby, Usman, and Wonderboy are a little bit better versions of Kos, fitch, and Alves. Better training, better cardio by far, all around just better???
You guys honestly think GSP would run through Colby, Usman, and WB? Interesting! I don't know who I would pick in those hypothetical matchups, but no one is getting dominated, those are tough matchups..
 
Chris Wilson was never given a fair shake and coulda been champ







J/K

Now thats a dude I completely forgot about LoL
 
Wand claude van-damme said:
I agree 100 on Kos and Fitch, they were well rounded, and at their peak a tough matchup for anyone, any era for sure.. But wouldn't you agree that guys like Colby, Usman, and Wonderboy are a little bit better versions of Kos, fitch, and Alves. Better training, better cardio by far, all around just better???
You guys honestly think GSP would run through Colby, Usman, and WB? Interesting! I don't know who I would pick in those hypothetical matchups, but no one is getting dominated, those are tough matchups..
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No, they aren't better versions, they are completely different fighters with different strengths and weaknesses.

I didn't say GSP would run through Colby, Usman and WB, I think he would beat them if you were asking but I didn't even mention how I thought those match ups would go. You should wait till someone gives their opinion on a topic before you assume what their opinions are.
 
bjpenngoat said:
Difference is that Anderson beat prime franklin and prime he do stopping all 3 fights violently and finished every fight aside from maia and leites. Maia is an all time.great and way way better than 99% of gsp's resume. Gsp never finished a fight. He went life and death with Dan hardy and josh koscheck whom everyone finished.
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You’re entire argument is GSP wouldn’t be top 10 because his division sucks. Which is ridiculous. If it applies to him it applies to Silva or this thread needs to be deleted.
 
NoBiasJustMMA said:
No, they aren't better versions, they are completely different fighters with different strengths and weaknesses.

I didn't say GSP would run through Colby, Usman and WB, I think he would beat them if you were asking but I didn't even mention how I thought those match ups would go. You should wait till someone gives their opinion on a topic before you assume what their opinions are.
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Whatever just keep arguing.. Usman and Fitch were completely different fighters like Kobe and Jordan were different ballers.
 
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