Wrestling is not the enemy

[WINNERBYTWISTER]

I'm on here quite often now, and I've never heard anyone making this mistake. Much ado about nothing.

The commone mistake is people implying wrestlers would get subbed by bjj fighters as if wrestlers are not great grapplers themselves.

Wrestling is grappling and wrestlers can be extremely hard to sub.

 

[Leo462]

Why would anyone want to do this? Most folks would agree that if you're on your back, you're pretty much considered to be losing. If the guy on top is working, very seldom do you see the ref stand them up. A guy on bottom simply laying there and waiting to be stood up is not going to win the round and is wasting valuable time.

See Sonnen vs Silva 2 for a prime example as to why someone would utilize that technique.

 

[drainbamage]

Yeah, but one could say that about the striking arts no?

I just feel people focus on wrestling too much and that everything could be solved by finding ways to diminish stalling.

why would you argue with folks who say that? Wrestling is fundamental to martial arts- if someone wants to ignore it, just ignore them.

and stalling is a two-sided issue, its not like one guy says "I shall now lay the stallz upon you, you have no hopes!" Its up to both guys to agree "hey, I'm going to stallz now, dont try anything risky and we'll just stay like this. Ok Mr. Lloyd, brilliant idea ol' chap, going for that armbar/kimura/gogo/knee to the groin WAS going to leave me slightly undefended after all"

Best way to eliminate it is keep throwing good wrestlers at newer fights, keep weeding out the guys who cant hang with wrestlers (since those fights can get boring) and dont reward boring fighters with championship fights. Its not really an issue thanks to the open-tourney system the UFC uses unlike the restrictions a closed bracket tourney causes.

 

[DaleRHCP]

I agree. I have to explain this to my friends the other day.

Many wrestlers are known for stalling and just lying on their opponents. I think that is why wrestling gets bad rep.

 

[drainbamage]

The commone mistake is people implying wrestlers would get subbed by bjj fighters as if wrestlers are not great grapplers themselves.

Wrestling is grappling and wrestlers can be extremely hard to sub.

are you implying that theres wrestlers who can somehow like grab you in a lock, or perhaps shall we say, catch you in a hold that causes a person to submit? this shit needs to get reported wider!

 

[WINNERBYTWISTER]

are you implying that theres wrestlers who can somehow like grab you in a lock, or perhaps shall we say, catch you in a hold that causes a person to submit? this shit needs to get reported wider!

Is this sarcasm?

 

[Deleted member 110072]

I think that's a fair point. I have to admit to be guilty of lumping wrestling and stalling together at times. I think because of how wrestling is classically viewed(in my case anyway) position is normally prioritised over trying to finish, and that mentality brings with it certain negative opinions from fans. I'd like to see some sort of system that negates the tactic of maintaining position and "looking active". If someone isn't looking to pass or advance and is just holding then yellow card or something. Feels like I've gone off point here...

Along with changed to judging I think ref's need to be much tougher on this, at the moment there far too prone to let fighters get away with some pinter patter GnP thats obviously just intended to prevent the standup.

I'd like to see ref's give the guy ontop a minute or so to either land signiifcant GnP or improve position, if neither happens give a warning and it he's still unable to do so stand the match up after 15-20 secs.

No standups might not be "realistic" but a time limate and ability to win via control alone isnt "realistic" either, when you add limations that clearly favour one(very dull) aspect of the sport counters need to be introduced.

 

[ABC]

Is this sarcasm?

using the terms "lock" and "catch", I'm almost positive he is being sarcastic. It looks like a reference to CACC to me. The funny thing is that many schools claiming to train BJJ are teaching CACC techniques also.

 

[FlyThai**]

the problem is guys who get taken down, and try to stall to get stood up by the referee.

the whole problem would be solved if we simply said "the referee isn't allowed to ever stand you up, and the only way to get up is to get up on your own"

Agreed. I'm tired of seeing people hold on for dear life from the bottom without improving position or attacking. Then they blame the top guy for stalling.

No, 90% of "LNP" fights are a result of the bottom guy not doing anything and waiting on the ref to stand them up

 

[BrainLeakage]

Agreed. I'm tired of seeing people hold on for dear life from the bottom without improving position or attacking. Then they blame the top guy for stalling.

No, 90% of "LNP" fights are a result of the bottom guy not doing anything and waiting on the ref to stand them up

I hear ya.

 

[WINNERBYTWISTER]

using the terms "lock" and "catch", I'm almost positive he is being sarcastic. It looks like a reference to CACC to me. The funny thing is that many schools claiming to train BJJ are teaching CACC techniques also.

Yeah, your probobly right.

People dont realize that the twister in MMA is actuall a wrestling technique.

 

[clayj]

the problem is guys who get taken down, and try to stall to get stood up by the referee.

the whole problem would be solved if we simply said "the referee isn't allowed to ever stand you up, and the only way to get up is to get up on your own"

yep, closed guard is as much the enemy of exciting fights as wrestling is.

 

[bubkusjones]

using the terms "lock" and "catch", I'm almost positive he is being sarcastic. It looks like a reference to CACC to me. The funny thing is that many schools claiming to train BJJ are teaching CACC techniques also.

Well, there are so few legit CACC schools, so, someone's got to teach 'em Hell, I don't even know if there is one in Canada. Definitely not in Ontario.

yep, closed guard is as much the enemy of exciting fights as wrestling is.

That I can agree with.

 

[BrazilianDude]

Prohibiting wrestling has to be the most stupid idea ever.
Wrestling can be fun to watch. Freestyle Olympic wrestling is great!
The problem is wrestling + subdefense gives fighters the option of LnP, which is a pain in the ass.

 

[QTdd**]

Yup. Ans stalling is caused by the stand up rule and seperations against the cage.

 

[ABC]

Well, there are so few legit CACC schools, so, someone's got to teach 'em Hell, I don't even know if there is one in Canada. Definitely not in Ontario.



That I can agree with.

If your looking for one up in that area, Kris Iatskevich is the person to ask. He can probably point you in the right direction, and you are right about there not being very many legit CACC schools, however it is making a comeback. I know Kris and a couple of his close friends have really tried to push to bring it back, and the ISWA is holding regional and national Catch tournaments.

 

[bubkusjones]

Yeah, I saw his name come up on a couple sites. Definitely going to shoot him an e-mail when I get my finances back together.

 

[WanderLogun]

There is more stalling on the feet with guys playing a distance game than there is stalling against the cage or on the ground.

Anybody who has trained grappling knows that some things take time to set up, and the problem is the "just bleed" crowd isn't in tune with these subtle set ups and it all goes right over their head. What they perceive as guys doing nothing, is really a chess game that they don't understand.

The thread welcomes the "just bleed" fans hated cousin "annoyingly aloof grappling guy"