Every grappling sport on the planet has anti-stalling rules, except for MMA

[xhaydenx]

I disagree, I’d say 95 percent of standups happen from closed guard. Every now and then a ref makes a bad call and stands someone up after they’ve passed to a dominant position, it’s rare, but by and large the refs know not to take away a position that a fighter has advanced into. I missed the Hamdy fight but you can go look at the Jailton/Volkov fight that happened recently. Jailton kept advancing position on the ground and the ref let him work. If Jailton had sat in closed guard and didn’t attempt to pass or gnp, the ref would have stood them up.

You disagree with what exactly?

I'm not giving you my opinion here, bro. That above was copy and pasted from the Unified Rules of MMA, and the Hamdy standups and others literally happened.

And yeh, for sure most standups happen in closed guard. It's easier for the defender to lock that position down and nullify all offense from the attacker, and we get a stand up. But that doesn't mean stand ups don't happen from other positions or that refs are instructed not to stand them up.

I watch every fight, and if you're laying in half guard now and doing nothing, the refs are warning you or standing you up. It's a lot more rare to see stand ups from mount, side control, back mount, etc. but they do happen.

And these aren't "bad calls" by a ref now and then. They're literally following the rules. If they stood someone up from outside of mount and it was clearly against the rules to do so, they'd be getting fired.

Oh, another recent stand up that comes to mind: Chimaev had DDP's back in the 4th round. DDP was sitting on his ass while Chimaev was behind him and controlling him while standing over him and holding him down. Chimaev was landing knees to the body. He'd just been controlling DDP in side and half guard before all this. He had been landing punches, but nothing that would be seen as a significant or sustained effort towards finishing the fight. Ref stood them up. Ref's aren't going to get away with doing that if they've been told not to and just keep doing it.

 

[Pierced7681]

You disagree with what exactly?

I'm not giving you my opinion here, bro. That above was copy and pasted from the Unified Rules of MMA, and the Hamdy standups and others literally happened.

And yeh, for sure most standups happen in closed guard. It's easier for the defender to lock that position down and nullify all offense from the attacker, and we get a stand up. But that doesn't mean stand ups don't happen from other positions or that refs are instructed not to stand them up.

I watch every fight, and if you're laying in half guard now and doing nothing, the refs are warning you or standing you up. It's a lot more rare to see stand ups from mount, side control, back mount, etc. but they do happen.

And these aren't "bad calls" by a ref now and then. They're literally following the rules. If they stood someone up from outside of mount and it was clearly against the rules to do so, they'd be getting fired.

Oh, another recent stand up that comes to mind: Chimaev had DDP's back in the 4th round. DDP was sitting on his ass while Chimaev was behind him and controlling him while standing over him and holding him down. Chimaev was landing knees to the body. He'd just been controlling DDP in side and half guard before all this. He had been landing punches, but nothing that would be seen as a significant or sustained effort towards finishing the fight. Ref stood them up. Ref's aren't going to get away with doing that if they've been told not to and just keep doing it.

I disagree with your assertion that standups happen all the time from dominant positions. You’ve literally mentioned only two fights where there was a standup from a dominant position, which shows I’m correct, and you also admitted I’m correct that most fights where there’s a standup it’s because they’re in closed guard. As I said, standups from dominant positions are very rare because refs know not to standup a fighter who has advanced position, as the rules state. Pretty cut and dry, and you’re just arguing in circles at this point.

 

[Wicked_1]

The ref can stand them up at will. Luckily her understands grappling control and that you shouldn't stand them up when one is in a dominant position and is working. No one was lay and pray at all. It's MMA not striking only. Get over it. Go watch k1 or other striking only sports if you want limited rules where it's not MMA .
Why do people like Ilia and conor always whine about people grappling...gee you could easily avoid it by fighting in a striking only origination..easy. but nope they enter a sport where it's all styles so they can't beat high level grapplers , and run their mouth. I don't get it. Why fight in MMA if you want to only strike? It's like a running back bitching about pass plays or pitcher bitching about hitters . Go to k1 if you are so badass at striking ..oh wait ,you would get your ass handed to you so you chose MMA to have an advantage over fighters who train things else than striking.
How have MMA strikers done at boxing? Not well. But it's boxing and there aren't wrestlers or grappling guys,only great strikers...guess they aren't as good as they say. ....Ilia if he won could make far more money boxing, but is in MMA...don't like MMA rules ..go box or kickbox...if it makes you so happy for you unhappy. it's because grapplers at high levels beat strikers. Either way, when a guy dominates a fighter in grappling ..basically it's nullifying striking which is defending striking why whine about that else than being beat by the strategy that is MMA

 

[xhaydenx]

I disagree with your assertion that standups happen all the time from dominant positions. You’ve literally mentioned only two fights where there was a standup from a dominant position, which shows I’m correct, and you also admitted I’m correct that most fights where there’s a standup it’s because they’re in closed guard. As I said, standups from dominant positions are very rare because refs know not to standup a fighter who has advanced position, as the rules state. Pretty cut and dry, and you’re just arguing in circles at this point.

I didn't say that standups happen all the time from dominant positions. I said they've happened plenty. I'm not saying it's something even close to 50%. Watch every fight on every card and you'll see plenty of standups from half guard now.

And of course I admitted that most standups happen in closed guard. I never said otherwise at any point. I don't think anyone would.

All I said to you was that the rules don't say anything about any sort of dominant position, which is what you were claiming. You're here saying again what the rules state. Here is exactly what the rules state:

"Standing up or Breaking Fighters
The Referee shall either stand up or break the fighters when neither fighter is able to or fails to
demonstrate real, significant and/or sustained effort to advance towards finishing the fight by any
method
Simply maintaining what may be perceived as a superior position will not be considered
effort to advance towards finishing the fight nor grounds for a guaranteed opportunity to maintain that
position."

Yeh, you're right, it is pretty cut and dry. I was never arguing in circles. I was quoting you the official rules of MMA as of 2025 haha. Like, how are even trying to refute this? I didn't write it lol.

 

[jeskola]

If anything, that’s just going to favour the top heavy grapplers even more.

That's fine, they can finish fights that way like the old ground n pound days and people won't have anything to complain about.

 

[gentel]

There needs to be an anti wrestling cope forum for after fights like last night.

Your opponent having very good defense on the ground like JDM doesn't constitute stalling.

Needs a full support therapy group like Alcoholics Anonymous

 

[Pierced7681]

I didn't say that standups happen all the time from dominant positions. I said they've happened plenty. I'm not saying it's something even close to 50%. Watch every fight on every card and you'll see plenty of standups from half guard now.

And of course I admitted that most standups happen in closed guard. I never said otherwise at any point. I don't think anyone would.

All I said to you was that the rules don't say anything about any sort of dominant position, which is what you were claiming. You're here saying again what the rules state. Here is exactly what the rules state:

"Standing up or Breaking Fighters
The Referee shall either stand up or break the fighters when neither fighter is able to or fails to
demonstrate real, significant and/or sustained effort to advance towards finishing the fight by any
method
Simply maintaining what may be perceived as a superior position will not be considered
effort to advance towards finishing the fight nor grounds for a guaranteed opportunity to maintain that
position."

Yeh, you're right, it is pretty cut and dry. I was never arguing in circles. I was quoting you the official rules of MMA as of 2025 haha. Like, how are even trying to refute this? I didn't write it lol.

Key words in the rules there is “advance to finishing the fight” which means moving to a dominant position you can finish the fight from. As I said, once you pass closed guard you are in a dominant position you can finish the fight from. Refs very rarely stand anyone up from half guard, because it’s a dominant position where you can keep advancing to finish the fight, as the rules state. Good discussion though, you’re a knowledgeable mma fan and we’re pretty much saying the same thing at this point.

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

MMA does have rules against stalling though

 

[xhaydenx]

Key words in the rules there is “advance to finishing the fight” which means moving to a dominant position you can finish the fight from. As I said, once you pass closed guard you are in a dominant position you can finish the fight from. Refs very rarely stand anyone up from half guard, because it’s a dominant position where you can keep advancing to finish the fight, as the rules state. Good discussion though, you’re a knowledgeable mma fan and we’re pretty much saying the same thing at this point.

Yeh, again, I'm not saying it's normal at all. Just that it does happen and I see it more and more over time. And again, very very rare that I see a stand up from mount or back mount or side control. It's just more from half guard mainly now. Like the Hamdy standups were the first from side back mount I'd seen in a long time.

I think a lot of fighters are just really figuring out how to cause stalling in positions that used to be very dominant for everyone. Like, you look at side control and back control now and it's a fucking mess. In side, people are just figure fouring the leg and holding an underhook, and all of a sudden this position suddenly isn't dominant anymore when it used to be very dominant. And when someone has the back now everyone just overhooks one arm like their life depends on it because they know they can't then be choked at all. And then it's just a waiting game. Gone are the days when fighters were easy pickings once their back was taken.

But yeh, good discussion, mate.

 

[froggyluv]

Growing up -we had a town tough guy, good natural Tall kicker and puncher and then we had a huge jolly fat fireman. Well the two sides finally came to a rumble (2 neighborhoods) and the fat guy just sat on the tough guy till he got too tired and they basically waved it off.

 

[Pierce 34]

I would just stand up and knock them out

Like this?

 

[Kung Fu Kowboy]

Like this?

 

[Pierced7681]

Growing up -we had a town tough guy, good natural Tall kicker and puncher and then we had a huge jolly fat fireman. Well the two sides finally came to a rumble (2 neighborhoods) and the fat guy just sat on the tough guy till he got too tired and they basically waved it off.

I once trained with a 300 lb blue belt and I asked him what his favourite submission was and he was like “I like to sit on people”

 

[JustBleed69]

 

[theincognito]

The unified rules are explicitly anti stalling.

Blame shitty refs / shitty commentators who criticize refs who don't allow stalling.

 

[Conan the K-9]

It’s wild to me that the UFC BJJ at the same time does this. They openly say that if you are not active enough and put on a boring, stalling and controlling performance, you will never sniff the title shot.

‘He needs to move faster’ – Claudia Gadelha explains why Kennedy Maciel won’t get UFC BJJ title shot - Grappling Insider

Following UFC BJJ 2, Claudia Gadelha criticized Kennedy Maciel and explained why he won't be getting a UFC BJJ title shot.

grapplinginsider.com

All this while their main product has rules that allow athletes to put on the most lackluster performances to win by points.

What is strange for me is, why these guys do it? They have to know that the audience hates it. Are they afraid that they can’t get a dominant position again if they once risk it going for a finish? They for sure shouldn’t be questioning if they can get their opponents back to the mats again. So why zero risk, zero real commitment to anything?
I am starting to think that their skill sets are not as good as we thought. They can’t impose their will to the opponent and force their opponent move to a position open to be submitted, which is the main thing in jiujitsu.
Prove me wrong.

 

[Laza cds mma]

There was no stalling in Islam’s case. He tried to get a submission many times; Jack just defended very well and was even attacking from the bottom with that Craig Jones buggy choke, which made Islam let go of several submission attempts.

 

[LordHellraiser]

Who is US? I notice a common trend. You have a very large percentage of long time fans speaking for themselves and saying they didn’t like what they saw. SPEAKING FOR THEMSELVES. When you don’t agree with their opinion you need to refer to yourself as an US hoping you can garner the support of other males that want to see control in top position for 5 rounds and later take them to a gay bar? Is that the US you speak of?

I wouldn't take anything @HHJ says seriously. He's a douche canoe, who is literally a Karen. But that's cool, he needs to pretend he's a tough guy to help him sleep at night. Let him, we all know he's a shit stain around here.

 

[Conan the K-9]

There was no stalling in Islam’s case. He tried to get a submission many times; Jack just defended very well and was even attacking from the bottom with that Craig Jones buggy choke, which made Islam let go of several submission attempts.

Wouldn’t you think that maybe you should try something else if your darce is not working? Is that the only thing he’s got?
We can say that we saw him thinking about a kimura, but was never even able to get a kimura grip only wrist control. Never committed to a rear naked, where he could have even put in a few punches to open that possibility up. He even had JDMs arm trapped and nothing. No real ground and pound from half guard or advancing to mount and gnp from there, why not?
Too afraid to lose the position? What is this bs?



This is how you work if you want to finish the fight.

 

[Mind Mine]

I wouldn't take anything @HHJ says seriously. He's a douche canoe, who is literally a Karen. But that's cool, he needs to pretend he's a tough guy to help him sleep at night. Let him, we all know he's a shit stain around here.

He has ups and terrible downs